UPDATE!! Lothar Walther Special Order for Impact .25 need 3 more to place order

Forums PCP Airguns UPDATE!! Lothar Walther Special Order for Impact .25 need 3 more to place order

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    (After speaking with Steve @ Pomona he confirmed the .551 will work) Up front caveat, this is dependent upon .551 working with the FX Impact. I measured mine at over .550 but less than halfway (in 10 thousandths) to .551. I suspect it will work but will confirm with Steve at Pomona first. I wrote the below text before I found out we could get a .551 barrel. Originally I was told by John at LW that he could not get a .550 barrel, I would have to get the next size up and have it turned, so keep that in mind while reading. So, here is the results of my research and the prices.

    Before I tell you how to join in on an Air Gun Nation special order for a Lothar Walther .25 slug barrel, I’ll tell you why you may not want to order a .590 air gun barrel blank and have it turned on a lathe down to .550 to fit an FX Impact. After speaking about this very subject with Steve at Pomona Air Guns, he explained to me why he didn’t recommend having him do that very job. First that says something about the man’s integrity to turn down work because it was not the best way to get the job done. Here’s why, if he was turning down a 1.2” target barrel in .22 it would be a different story. But when turning a barrel that is only .590, with a .250 bore through the center down to .550 there just isn’t enough material or strength left in the barrel. That would only leave .300 or .150 on each side of the bore. He went on that it doesn’t matter how slow you go, you are going to get “chatter”, his words. He told me he has done it before and it is a long and tedious process and when done there is no guarantee it won’t ruin the barrel. The only way to properly take .040 off of an already small barrel is to have it precision ground. Basically, that means the barrel is still turned but instead of cutting it with a lathe bit, it is ground, with a spinning abrasive wheel. This puts very little side pressure on a thin barrel as the material is being removed. So, if the air gun smith you had in mind to cut down an off the shelf .590 barrel has precision grinding equipment then you are good to go. But if all he has is a lathe, he may just be taking your money without regard to the end product he will give you or he just doesn’t have the experience to know better. At the very least he should explain as Steve explained to me about the process and possibilities that exist dong a job without the proper equipment.   Does this mean every barrel this small turned on a lathe will get ruined? No, but when the chance exists I don’t want to pay good money for just a chance of working.  But wait, there’s more. That off the shelf barrel is only 23.8” long. Think of the new Smooth Twist X slug liner coming in at 700mm, or 28” and why. After speaking with Ernest at FX USA he told me the faster the slugs went, the tighter the groups got. So, when dealing with slugs, unlike diablo pellets which have a maximum speed for accuracy, somewhere in the 850-900fps range, slugs do better with higher speeds. With a longer barrel, you get higher velocity so a 30” barrel should shoot better than a 23.8” barrel. At least in a PCP that needs all the help it can get pushing a heavier slug. The reason I chose the .25 over the .22 or the .30 is this. The .22 doesn’t have as much weight in the largest pellet that will fit in an Impact magazine, and the .30 even though can have a heavier slug, will have a lower ballistic coefficient. The .25 with some magazine mods can get a slug in the 50 grain or slightly larger weight, it won’t be as heavy as a .30 but it will fly faster and have a faster spin when it leaves the barrel because of it and with a higher BC. So, after all the research I came to the conclusion that if I want a LW un-choked barrel for slugs, it needs to be the right length and diameter from the factory which means a special order. Un-choked because again, this will be a slug barrel, not a barrel designed to shoot diablo pellets. So, if you agree with my assessment and would also like to get a Lothar Walther .25 air rifle blank 30” long and ready to fit for an Impact, this is what you need to do.   

    As I said before, something changed. Now John told me I can get a 30" 17.7 twist rate un choked with an outside diameter of .551 which is 14mm. bear with me, I know a lot or you here know most of this. The cost for a 5 barrel order is $169.69 with shipping at about $20 or about $190 each.               

    You will also need the barrel inlet (brass transfer port) an in stock part from FX USA, number 19670 for $47 with shipping (I just ordered one). The Smooth Twist X upgrade at $259 and the slug liner at $109 for a total of $269 plus shipping is for the standard 600mm barrel only. If you want the 700mm slug liner setup it will set you back $539 plus shipping. A custom Lothar Walther 30" barrel which is longer than both STX options coming in at $342 plus shipping is a very attractive alternative. If you want to shoot slugs over 39 grains then the LW is the clear choice. More about all this here. If you don't want to shoot slugs but want a long barrel for more accuracy have it choked by Steve when he fits it.  Shipping will be $18-21

     

    Who's wants in on this order? Copy and paste the list, and add your name in your response.

                    Azycray

                    HarryO

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

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    PelletPusher
    Participant
    Member

    Excellent effort @azycray – I am married to 22 cal otherwise I would totally jump on this.

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    I just spoke with Steve at Pomona and he gave me some new info that might help get this order done. First, it doesn't matter if you don't want an un-choked slug barrel, more on that in a minute. Second, it doesn't matter how LW wants to get paid or ship, we can pay Steve and he can pay LW, they will ship the order to Steve and he can fit and ship to us. He gave me some good news also about the choke and length. This order doesn't have to be a slug barrel only. If you want a pellet barrel with a choke, he can choke the barrel. He can also cut and crown the barrel to any length you want so if 30" is a little too long for your needs it's not a problem. He also told me his price to cut, crown, thread the breech end for the barrel inlet and thread the muzzle for the suppressor is $125. So, if the barrel is $169 call it $170, the barrel inlet/transfer port is $47 and the fitting work is $125 this would put the custom barrel right about $342. But that's still a whole lot better than buying the 700mm slug barrel package. See here for more info on that.

    Who's wants in on this order? Copy and paste the list, and add your name in your response.

                    Azycray

                    HarryO

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    Deleted content

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    HarryO
    Participant
    Member

     

    Count me in for a.25 LW pellet barrel choked! 

    Fill me in on details when you know.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    Well I was ready to throw in the towel but now we have 2, just need 3 more. I suspect there will be growing interest as time goes on. After all the 1st Gen owners get their STX upgrades and shoot them for a few months they will be looking for something else, the never ending pursuit of tighter groups. I shoot with helium for max power so slugs are my only option. I will be getting the 700mm slug upgrade (not anymore, see here for more info about that) as well as the LW. I'm sure one will be better suited for the lighter slugs and one for the heavier. I'll still have my original gen 1 smooth twist for pellets if I ever want to dial it down but I suspect that won't happen often.

    Who's wants in on this order? Copy and paste the list, and add your name in your response.

                    Azycray

                    HarryO

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

                    Your Name Here

           

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    FukoChan
    Participant
    Member

    Hey speaking of the impact you I'll need to up the regulator to sling those lothar Walther slugs. What is your opinion about going above the recommended max of 150 bar?

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    If you have unlimited adjustments I would say crank it up to the max when shooting slugs from a slug barrel. But in the stock configuration both the Impact and the Impact X are limited to about 150 BAR. Regulator creep is a different topic. My gen1 has creep-ed up to 170 but when functioning properly 150 is the highest you can set it. So, the question now is what can you do to go higher?

    I spoke with Ernest at FX USA about power tunes and this is what I learned. The new X version of the Impact is different in more ways than just the Smooth Twist X barrel. The trigger housing is different concerning the regulator. The trigger is also I think but I always loved the trigger already so really didn’t go into that topic further. The new trigger housing now has a longer regulator. You can get a higher BAR setting with both the gen1 and the new X version by increasing the number of metal washers within the regulator. Since the new version has a longer regulator you can get more of the washers in the new regulator but both can be increased in the same way. These metal washers are basically the spring that holds pressure being regulated so a stiffer “spring” means a higher regulator set pressure. With the new regulator and the additional metal washers you can get up to 170-175 BAR top end set pressure. Keep in mind I had one conversation on the phone so I can’t answer any specific questions but this should give you the main information to understand how you can now get above the 150 BAR ceiling of the gen1.

    Other power potential can be unlocked by improving the air flow from the cylinder all the way to the barrel. This is basically why helium works better than air, it is a smaller atom than nitrogen that makes up around 85% of air (and the other components of air as well), so it flows faster. More gas getting through the valve area means more gas (higher pressure) behind the slug/pellet pushing is to go faster. The longer the barrel, the longer the gas also has to push before the projectile leaves the muzzle, hence a faster muzzle velocity. He mentioned how to improve the flow in a couple of ways which I cannot specifically remember at this point. But whatever the part within the cylinder to barrel path, it essentially means enlarging the area that your chosen gas has to move from point A to point B. It’s really not rocket science, I’m sure you could raise it to that level but for our purposes, the majority of gains will be achieved with simple enlarging techniques. One caveat, at the high pressures used in PCP rifles it is possible to increase turbulence when increasing flow negating the benefit so choice of parts has to be made with that in mind. Take a look at the schematic and you can pretty much figure out which parts can be modified to increase flow (hopefully without turbulence). When you have a better flowing pathway from the tank, it stands to reason that you have a stronger push the entire way to the end of the barrel. One other way is to keep the valve open longer, again, so there is a stronger and longer push behind the projectile because once the valve is shut you will lose the additional push coming from the cylinder, at that point it will only be from the regulator chamber forward.   

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    JU
    Spectator
    Spectator

    My new impact came from UAG with the regulator set to over 220 bar. 50.15g pellet velocity was all over the place between about 450 and 670. Setting the regulator to a little over 150 got me to 900 fps.

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    First question, you are able to set your regulator at 220 BAR? Any other gen2 Impacts out there that can set theirs that high? Second question is you lowered the pressure setting and increased the velocity/FPS? I have heard of other instances when velocity will increase by using less air but that is a huge difference between 220 and 150 BAR. What do you think would cause such an increase in speed by lowering the pressure? Do you have any idea at all?

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    myway
    Participant
    Member

    In theory, due to the high pressure in the regulator, without also increasing the hammer strike energy, pellet velocities can decrease as it's harder to knock the valve open. That's why unregulated guns are not at their best/most efficient performance when filled to max pressure. 

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    I'm still trying to find 3 more. I posted this on gatewaytoairguns:

    I'm trying to find 3 more interested shooters who would like to have a Lothar Walther Barrel for their FX Impact .25. The barrel is 30" and un choked but can be cut to any length and crowned by Steve at Pomona Air Guns and choked if if you would prefer to shot pellets. The barrel O.D. is 14mm or .551" which fits the Impact but may work for other air rifles with the same O.D. I'm buying this instead of the new Smooth Twist X slug liner now being offered by FX. The first reason is a Lothar Walther barrel quality is well established, the new STX slug liner is not. It is also 2" shorter than the LW and designed for slugs between 34-39 grains. If you want to shoot a heavier slug it may not shoot as well at the LW. The other reason is the price. Unless you bought the new Impact X with the 700mm barrel it will cost you $539 plus shipping. Here's why, all other Impacts (.25) whether the gen1 or the new version all come with a standard 600mm barrel. There is no upgrade for the 700mm barrel, you have to buy the entire barrel package which comes with the A liner for pellets. Then you have to buy the slug liner. The 700mm version is slightly more than the standard version so that comes to $539 plus shipping. The cost for a custom Lothar Walther barrel including fitting AND shipping expenses to and fro comes in about $150 less than the Smooth Twist X 700mm slug barrel without shipping. Here is the break down in costs. The barrel is $170 with shipping about $20. You will also need a brass transfer port, I paid $47 with shipping but I had Ernest improve the flow a little bit so without that it's a little less. Steve at Pomona said he can cut, crown, choke and thread both ends for $125. Add another $20 to ship back to you and it comes to $382.  So to re-cap, the STX is 2" shorter(lower velocity), untested and potentially not suitable for the heavier slugs and costs more. Anyone interested can contact me for more info. Thanks, Azycray

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    mag_de_mars
    Participant
    Member

    Hello all, there is a way to obtain same with .30 caliber please, at this time i do not see any slug liner for .30 in stx 

     

    thank you all

    Thierry

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    spysir
    Participant
    Member

    mag,

    I'm not certain about LW's local to you but I'm sure someone has them:

     

    https://www.lothar-walther.com/gun-barrel-blanks/airgun-barrels/?p=3

     

    John

     

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    John,

              The regular stock barrels are 23.84", to get a 30" barrel is a special order and you have to order a minimum of 5 for a special order. So I went with a TJ's, still haven't received it back from the the gunsmith. He had some health problems and it just seems like it's always something. And if it's not that it's something else.

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    mag_de_mars
    Participant
    Member

    HELLO ALL

    i live in France, there is a way i participate to your group buy?

    thank you

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    kaptein22
    Participant
    Member

    Would love to order a LW barrel for slugs out of an Fx impact 700mm .25 cal if still possible. I got my STX slug liner for it and was horrendous 

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    cwooten5
    Participant
    Member

    Lol, I know this post it old, but;

     

    How do you get the helium into the gun?

    Just wondering…. Chris

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    Azycray
    Participant
    Member

    I have a 6K helium tank I rent from a welding supplier on a annual basis. 6,000 psi goes a long way. I fill my 90 cf tank and then can load my small rifles. I load my big bore directly from the 6K tank since it runs on 4,500psi. Once the 6K tank drops below 4,500 I would have to feed the helium through a booster pump but since I don't shoot that one much, just during or getting ready for hunting season I'm still above 4,500psi.  I can shoot my smaller air rifles by filling the 4,500psi tanks with the pump (after the 6K tank drops below 4,500) and then filling the rifles as you would with air. So as long as I time the 6K refill just before hunting season everything works out and it will last me at least a year. Or it has up until now, but I now have my Impact where I want it and two others to tinker with when I have the spare time. The Impact .25 has a TJ's barrel (non choked) and I 'm making my own swagged slugs with a Corbin press. On power setting 4 I'm getting about 1,365 fps with about a 42 grain boat tail hollow point, after a power tune by Ernest at FX USA. I haven't had the time yet to really dial it in but so far the accuracy is promising and the power is also where I wanted it to be.

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    knifemaker
    Participant
    Member

    The reason for the lower velocity at higher pressure is known as valve lock. It a common issue in pcp's.

     

    Guys, while a longer barrel can give better air efficiency, or higher velocities for a given pressure. ( Not that you can use it, as pellets become unstable at high velocity), a longer barrel will not give a higher degree of accuracy unless at extreme ranges. Then only due to higher fps. But then again, you cant go into the trans sonic range without accuracy issues.  

     

    The reason long barrels are not as accurate as shorter ones is two fold, One, higher degree of harmonic disturbance in a longer barrel, unless extremely stiff. (bull Barrel) But not at the dia. you are ordering. No where near it. 

    But more importantly is lock time. The longer the barrel, the more the gun moves, and tremendously susceptible to anything other than absolutely  perfect follow thru. This is why you NEVER see a long barrel on a bench rest gun. Powder Burner Or PCP!

    I fear you wasting your money on false assumptions.

    Most shooters know this already. It is well understood, and possibly why more are not jumping in on this endeavor.

     

    Now if you want to shoot slugs, some of this changes. But only the stabilization in the trans sonic region. However, Chokes were mentioned above. Not good with slugs except in special applications.

    Knife

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by knifemaker.
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