To my understanding the LW barrels like the heavier ammo and faster speeds.? Any input??
Lothar Walther Ammo Choice?
- Thread starter Redick
- Start date
For those with polygonal rifling, yes the consensus suggests so. For conventionally-rifled LW barrels, a good one likes most pellets at most any speed.
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Well, I have 3, all in .22.
One is a 14.5" barrel on a 1322 pumper. Typically shooting CPHP 14.3 @ 500fps. I use a sizing die to get uniform head sizes, and the barrel shoots them extremely well at those speeds.
The 2nd is a cut down and re-choked 14.5" same as the first, but 7.6" now, and a lighter choke. I shoot 16gr AA pellets thru it @ 550fps. I have tested many pellets, and it shoots these the best.
The 3rd is a 14.25" barrel on my Hatsan Nova Star. I shoot the same AA 16gr pellets at 600 and 900 fps with terrific results.
I think ultimately, the twist rate, and the tightness of choke is going to determine what the barrel is going to like to shoot. I have not measured the rate on any of mine as I have never intended to shoot anything other than what I do thru them.
One is a 14.5" barrel on a 1322 pumper. Typically shooting CPHP 14.3 @ 500fps. I use a sizing die to get uniform head sizes, and the barrel shoots them extremely well at those speeds.
The 2nd is a cut down and re-choked 14.5" same as the first, but 7.6" now, and a lighter choke. I shoot 16gr AA pellets thru it @ 550fps. I have tested many pellets, and it shoots these the best.
The 3rd is a 14.25" barrel on my Hatsan Nova Star. I shoot the same AA 16gr pellets at 600 and 900 fps with terrific results.
I think ultimately, the twist rate, and the tightness of choke is going to determine what the barrel is going to like to shoot. I have not measured the rate on any of mine as I have never intended to shoot anything other than what I do thru them.
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A good LW likes pretty much anyrhing you feed it at any speed depends on pellets too like the Dae Sung Eun Jin Seneca Domes can handle 1200+ fps and still shoot accurately. Cheap Wal-Mart pellets (Stay away from 7.9gr Premier Pointed and 10.5gr Pirhana) even 7.4gr Crosman Pointed shoot good too at up to around 55 yards with a good LW at 600fps - up to a little over 800fps. Dial the power down to 400fps - 550fps for closer range targets and birds up to 35 yards.
A good 22 LW should shoot a variety of ammo good too and not like FX where certain speeds are important to accuracy. Cheap Wal-Mart 14.3gr .Crosman Premier Hollowpoints should be fine up to 50 yards or a little past that from a good LW. Good news they arent really speed sensitive just try to stay no more than 850fps and preferably 700fps to 840fps. Dial it down to 600fps to pop a squirrel at 25 yards.
If it's a 22 Bantam HiLite unregulated there's no tuning nor regulator needed they shoot excellent as is just fill to 200bar. Adding a regulator may hinder your long range Bantam accuracy ask me how I know. If you are lucky then accuracy will stay the same. You can add a reg if you don't plan to shoot past 75 yards then you be fine. None of my factory HUMA Brocock Snipers nor Commamders all with outshot my non regulated Bantam HiLites past 80 yards. Pretty odd and I even bought a $400+ custom barrel and still wasn't as accurate so it weren't coincidence all my Regulated LW barrels. Seasoned champion trophy shooter Airngassman posted photo of his 100 yard group with his unregulated 22 Bantam HiLite and when he asked if he should add a regulator I flat out told him NO. When you already have a gun that shoots perfect never ever ever ever mess with it. Go buy a really crappy inaccurate Chinese gun to tinker with instead to curb the tinkering urge.
The head sizers are from England UK. Not really necessary if you arent shooting Benchrest competition or paper targets past 50 yards for example using a 25 cal RAW HM1000x shooting commercially made 25 cal 25.39gr JSB Kings to get consistant 1/4" groups at 75 yards making them close to the H and Hem home made pellets. Most non competive shooters dont really need that kind of accuracy.
https://youtu.be/iJo1assKEXE
A good 22 LW should shoot a variety of ammo good too and not like FX where certain speeds are important to accuracy. Cheap Wal-Mart 14.3gr .Crosman Premier Hollowpoints should be fine up to 50 yards or a little past that from a good LW. Good news they arent really speed sensitive just try to stay no more than 850fps and preferably 700fps to 840fps. Dial it down to 600fps to pop a squirrel at 25 yards.
If it's a 22 Bantam HiLite unregulated there's no tuning nor regulator needed they shoot excellent as is just fill to 200bar. Adding a regulator may hinder your long range Bantam accuracy ask me how I know. If you are lucky then accuracy will stay the same. You can add a reg if you don't plan to shoot past 75 yards then you be fine. None of my factory HUMA Brocock Snipers nor Commamders all with outshot my non regulated Bantam HiLites past 80 yards. Pretty odd and I even bought a $400+ custom barrel and still wasn't as accurate so it weren't coincidence all my Regulated LW barrels. Seasoned champion trophy shooter Airngassman posted photo of his 100 yard group with his unregulated 22 Bantam HiLite and when he asked if he should add a regulator I flat out told him NO. When you already have a gun that shoots perfect never ever ever ever mess with it. Go buy a really crappy inaccurate Chinese gun to tinker with instead to curb the tinkering urge.
The head sizers are from England UK. Not really necessary if you arent shooting Benchrest competition or paper targets past 50 yards for example using a 25 cal RAW HM1000x shooting commercially made 25 cal 25.39gr JSB Kings to get consistant 1/4" groups at 75 yards making them close to the H and Hem home made pellets. Most non competive shooters dont really need that kind of accuracy.
https://youtu.be/iJo1assKEXE
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Yes Polygonal barrel. Just picked up a lcs-sk19 in 25 looking to find it's best pellet combination.
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My SK-19 in .22 did take a liking to the JSB 25.39gr Monster Redesigned at 950-960fps shooting them the best. Although it shot the Hades OK at around 850fps as well. Heavier and fast seems to be better.
These things seem to shoot quite a variety of ammo OK at specific velocities but nothing really stands out as exceptional to me as yet. OK being about 3/4 to 1 inch groups at 75 yards.
These things seem to shoot quite a variety of ammo OK at specific velocities but nothing really stands out as exceptional to me as yet. OK being about 3/4 to 1 inch groups at 75 yards.
Upvote 0
A non pellet/slug picky barrel is invaluable. Especially since finding our desired pellets any old time is next to impossible.
I have several great guns but can't always find the exact pellets/slugs they need to perform at their best.
A general rule of thumb is if a barrel shoots CPHP's well at 25-50 yards (hole in hole to 1/2") it will most likely shrink drastically with a softer lead JSB, AA, FX, other rebranded projectiles and do excellent further out.
As far as speed goes I'm going to say this. No pellets are as precise as ones flying at 560-575 in no winds. That's a 10m standard.
When trying for more power or less drop we usually want 880fps for pellets. But longer OAL& heavier options do require faster speeds or twists. Also contrary to belief a slug does NOT need to be going 950+ to be accurate or expand well . Look up Motorheads micro incised slugs similar to Lehigh Defense. Here's a calculator to play with & get some standards that might help. You need a micrometer or caliper to measure OD & OAL.
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Here's what I get with less than ideal H&N .217" 27 grain slugs last night.
Factory spring, 115 gram no slap hammer, power wheel on ZERO, top hat .166" gapped 0.015" off spin lock to bottom of TH. Running tethered at 2100psi my chronograph let me know why I was hitting at 178 yards on 3.5 mils instead of the 7 I was told to use with a SWFA SS 16x by StrelokPro.
I thought I was sending them at 980-1020 but when pressure dropped from 2700 to 2100 I realized they were going out at 1140-1180fps.
I can't wait for my 32 grain .412" OAL .2170" RBT Griffin slugs and I am going to try some 44 grain 4S nose RHBT LDC .625 OAL .217" slugs once I find a 1:12 or faster twist 24-28" barrel. RHBT LDC is Rebated Hollow Boat Tail Low Density Core. And they are PHENOMENAL at expansion and long range accuracy. Literally firearms guys mouths are hanging open when they see what these Griffin & Varmint Knockers do. Tom Holland's .177's are awesome also but I only have my hot rod BSA Ultra/Scorpion to send them.
My LW Condor barrel is a 1:17.7 w/ a reduced smooth transition choke, threaded with an Emperor on the end. It's perfect for 68-100+ftlbs this rig can make & less back pressure. I rounded twist rate up to 1:18 I'm amazed at what it can do though calculator says unstable. Tell that to the dime sized 100 yard groups. I'm tethered mind you. I do want a 1:12 or faster.
I'll hand lap the new barrel the way I always do, not with a drill for God's sake. It must be done by feel and measuring, pushing slugs through often in between when prepping for next rouge. Well rouge you can polish with a drill and free spinning rod but actual lapping with 220-320-600 Wheeler scope ring or valve compounds can be very very bad. I'd start with 600 as your barrel isn't your rings. I'm wondering since I removed a tight spot, all tool marks, and really relieved that choke if that's the reason I saw 27 grain slugs at 1180. But this was in basement and they didn't crack sound barrier so my chronograph could be off. Saw 6 shots like that though, no errors and increased pressure on reg to 2300 to slow em to 1040. I'll make a quick video.
Check these out folks and if ANYONE knows where I can get a 1:12 or faster 24-28" .22 barrel (even the 1:8 5.45 Green Mountain as its a .220 and .218" are supposed to be doing great. I'd love a 7lb barrel!!! I have Machinists but if you have one and want to earn up to $300 holler.
What's not ideal is the chart doesn't let me use G1 or R4 for .22LR which is closer to anything in the charts other than calculating your actual BC from 12" out to 50 yards. I know this barrel would shoot the old hand swaged NSA 36 grain FB at 900fps & very well but nowhere as good as Griffins because they're quite a bit longer than all others. At 200 yards NSA Bulk are fine for Coyotes but he only has 28.5 I think now. If I'm going for superior accuracy it's Varmint Knockers or Griffins. The RBT shines past 200.
So original poster (OP) I don't know if any of this matters to you but LW liking faster/heavier? It all depends on the caliber, bhn (hardness of lead) twist rate is most important & how the barrel was rifled and broken in, polished or truly lapped to perfection (slugs should have no more than 0.001" engagement and more like 0.0005")
LW has been the main airgun barrel used forever; but since small bore PCP's can now do things never dreamed of 20 years ago I suggest you look at your options and a secret is pick one pellet or slug for one barrel. Have it matched if you don't know how.
Hope this helped & please, feel free to give me a green ball if it did help. I could have been shooting.
Edit: OP, this is an inside thing not meant for you so please forgive me for it but I feel it should be addressed, and since I asked if he still thinks I'm retarded just yesterday and he said yes, that's okay. I'm not "thin skinned" but he dam well needs to know someone else with PTSD might not be a pacifist like myself.
Odoyle thinks PTSD makes me "retarded" maybe I am. Was this post something useful Odoyle? I mean I'm not going to defend you when people don't like your posts and you text me asking me to "post something useful." I never saw one green ball from you chief. I clearly said the man found me after 10 years and paid me what was owed and $150.00 more, but then tells me & others I'm retarded. Otherwise he does what he says in deals no doubt. Just seems to be a jerk of a person or his humor isn't in harmony with most. And it's not a lie, I would never hang out with someone who is/was a owner of some of his businesses.
IDK if my IQ is still 127 or 80 after my stroke and admitted drinking and illicit substances but PTSD doesn't make a person retarded. And I am not drinking or on any drugs, not even Mary J.
This is related as http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm
Now admittedly some people shouldn't play with HPA, projectiles, sharp objects, tools, etc. Seems lots of folks, even here don't believe anyone should have semi automatic anything. I am a precision shooter but I respect The Constitution and fun you have with your LCS-SK19 even if I don't want one.
People don't always do as they say and leave feedback for buying/selling/trading. I should have over 200 but I have a measly 35.
If this post helps anyone please just click on accuracy and write whatever you believe if it's positive as some abuse the accuracy rating and post anonymous negative feedback.
OP and Nervous trigger & are getting green balls right now from me, signed JD as always, as I don't do things I'm not proud of or feel I have to hide.
I have several great guns but can't always find the exact pellets/slugs they need to perform at their best.
A general rule of thumb is if a barrel shoots CPHP's well at 25-50 yards (hole in hole to 1/2") it will most likely shrink drastically with a softer lead JSB, AA, FX, other rebranded projectiles and do excellent further out.
As far as speed goes I'm going to say this. No pellets are as precise as ones flying at 560-575 in no winds. That's a 10m standard.
When trying for more power or less drop we usually want 880fps for pellets. But longer OAL& heavier options do require faster speeds or twists. Also contrary to belief a slug does NOT need to be going 950+ to be accurate or expand well . Look up Motorheads micro incised slugs similar to Lehigh Defense. Here's a calculator to play with & get some standards that might help. You need a micrometer or caliper to measure OD & OAL.
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Here's what I get with less than ideal H&N .217" 27 grain slugs last night.
Factory spring, 115 gram no slap hammer, power wheel on ZERO, top hat .166" gapped 0.015" off spin lock to bottom of TH. Running tethered at 2100psi my chronograph let me know why I was hitting at 178 yards on 3.5 mils instead of the 7 I was told to use with a SWFA SS 16x by StrelokPro.
I thought I was sending them at 980-1020 but when pressure dropped from 2700 to 2100 I realized they were going out at 1140-1180fps.
I can't wait for my 32 grain .412" OAL .2170" RBT Griffin slugs and I am going to try some 44 grain 4S nose RHBT LDC .625 OAL .217" slugs once I find a 1:12 or faster twist 24-28" barrel. RHBT LDC is Rebated Hollow Boat Tail Low Density Core. And they are PHENOMENAL at expansion and long range accuracy. Literally firearms guys mouths are hanging open when they see what these Griffin & Varmint Knockers do. Tom Holland's .177's are awesome also but I only have my hot rod BSA Ultra/Scorpion to send them.
My LW Condor barrel is a 1:17.7 w/ a reduced smooth transition choke, threaded with an Emperor on the end. It's perfect for 68-100+ftlbs this rig can make & less back pressure. I rounded twist rate up to 1:18 I'm amazed at what it can do though calculator says unstable. Tell that to the dime sized 100 yard groups. I'm tethered mind you. I do want a 1:12 or faster.
I'll hand lap the new barrel the way I always do, not with a drill for God's sake. It must be done by feel and measuring, pushing slugs through often in between when prepping for next rouge. Well rouge you can polish with a drill and free spinning rod but actual lapping with 220-320-600 Wheeler scope ring or valve compounds can be very very bad. I'd start with 600 as your barrel isn't your rings. I'm wondering since I removed a tight spot, all tool marks, and really relieved that choke if that's the reason I saw 27 grain slugs at 1180. But this was in basement and they didn't crack sound barrier so my chronograph could be off. Saw 6 shots like that though, no errors and increased pressure on reg to 2300 to slow em to 1040. I'll make a quick video.
Check these out folks and if ANYONE knows where I can get a 1:12 or faster 24-28" .22 barrel (even the 1:8 5.45 Green Mountain as its a .220 and .218" are supposed to be doing great. I'd love a 7lb barrel!!! I have Machinists but if you have one and want to earn up to $300 holler.
What's not ideal is the chart doesn't let me use G1 or R4 for .22LR which is closer to anything in the charts other than calculating your actual BC from 12" out to 50 yards. I know this barrel would shoot the old hand swaged NSA 36 grain FB at 900fps & very well but nowhere as good as Griffins because they're quite a bit longer than all others. At 200 yards NSA Bulk are fine for Coyotes but he only has 28.5 I think now. If I'm going for superior accuracy it's Varmint Knockers or Griffins. The RBT shines past 200.
So original poster (OP) I don't know if any of this matters to you but LW liking faster/heavier? It all depends on the caliber, bhn (hardness of lead) twist rate is most important & how the barrel was rifled and broken in, polished or truly lapped to perfection (slugs should have no more than 0.001" engagement and more like 0.0005")
LW has been the main airgun barrel used forever; but since small bore PCP's can now do things never dreamed of 20 years ago I suggest you look at your options and a secret is pick one pellet or slug for one barrel. Have it matched if you don't know how.
Hope this helped & please, feel free to give me a green ball if it did help. I could have been shooting.
Edit: OP, this is an inside thing not meant for you so please forgive me for it but I feel it should be addressed, and since I asked if he still thinks I'm retarded just yesterday and he said yes, that's okay. I'm not "thin skinned" but he dam well needs to know someone else with PTSD might not be a pacifist like myself.
Odoyle thinks PTSD makes me "retarded" maybe I am. Was this post something useful Odoyle? I mean I'm not going to defend you when people don't like your posts and you text me asking me to "post something useful." I never saw one green ball from you chief. I clearly said the man found me after 10 years and paid me what was owed and $150.00 more, but then tells me & others I'm retarded. Otherwise he does what he says in deals no doubt. Just seems to be a jerk of a person or his humor isn't in harmony with most. And it's not a lie, I would never hang out with someone who is/was a owner of some of his businesses.
IDK if my IQ is still 127 or 80 after my stroke and admitted drinking and illicit substances but PTSD doesn't make a person retarded. And I am not drinking or on any drugs, not even Mary J.
This is related as http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm
Now admittedly some people shouldn't play with HPA, projectiles, sharp objects, tools, etc. Seems lots of folks, even here don't believe anyone should have semi automatic anything. I am a precision shooter but I respect The Constitution and fun you have with your LCS-SK19 even if I don't want one.
People don't always do as they say and leave feedback for buying/selling/trading. I should have over 200 but I have a measly 35.
If this post helps anyone please just click on accuracy and write whatever you believe if it's positive as some abuse the accuracy rating and post anonymous negative feedback.
OP and Nervous trigger & are getting green balls right now from me, signed JD as always, as I don't do things I'm not proud of or feel I have to hide.
Upvote 0
I said it's the after effects of the drugs from b4 killing your brain cells. You called ot PTSD and I say it's from past hardcore drug usage.
When YOU asked me if I thought you were retarded I replied do you want me to tell you the truth or do you wamt me to sugar coat it?
Had I not convinced you about having a dealer make it right then you agreed then text me you were happy with their outcome?
YOU asked the question. You know people such as me and other certain old timers tell it like it is. I have NOT told anyone that I think you are retarded BTW...
When YOU asked me if I thought you were retarded I replied do you want me to tell you the truth or do you wamt me to sugar coat it?
Had I not convinced you about having a dealer make it right then you agreed then text me you were happy with their outcome?
YOU asked the question. You know people such as me and other certain old timers tell it like it is. I have NOT told anyone that I think you are retarded BTW...
Upvote 0
@luisberry13 My point is people that are diagnosed by a clinical psychiatrist as having PTSD, aren't retarded. I don't deny my past idiotic choices. I regret them just as I do every tattoo & woman, I womanized. I admittedly disgust myself if I dwell on my past. Edit: But you're wrong because I was diagnosed at 10, way before any drug use.
But my other point is I sold you quite a few things over the years, and no feedback though we know you got a great deal on everyone. But when you blame my 10+ year stuff I won't bring up as the reason you have haters, that's BS. You make a point of saying I'll do this for green balls to newbies.
I don't think it's right that anyone doxed you or gives negativity under your positive feedback. Adele did it to me over a R1 my dead mother bought me. Nobody is fixing that for me and it's a BS negative in the green ball section.
I only wanted to tell you about that conversation you asked me to engage in. I told you what he'd say, what he did say.
When I told you about this comment yesterday you said what you said. I didn't think you'd like it but whatever.
As far as I'm concerned you don't owe me anything, even though I gave you another green ball to clarify that no matter if people like you or anyone else, self included, we do what we say in deals.
When I asked you about that, in telling people about me, you said, I call it how I see it, which seems to be I'm retarded.
I apologize for doing this in this thread but I'm sick of the post something useful for you, call Thumper, etc.
I received what I was owed, great, thanks; but I'm not going to be told you hold me responsible for why people hate on you.
It's all good.
Upvote 0
I can understand why some may ask for information about certain subjects on forums,it is easy and you may get different answers,which is the right one?
What I don't understand is why many of those questions would be Better answered by the manufactures of the products you are interested in.....
I have found that most manufactures have web pages or phone numbers that can help customers with the questions they want answered.
Another big plus for ME,is that I feel like I am acknowledge as a customer.
Taking this route over the years I have been able to talk to engineers,tech people and best ,the owners.
I have been surprised to be able to talk to such knowledgeable people over the years,one time I called a major brand and was asking a question,the person I was talking to said the owner was right there and did I want to talk to him,OK.
I have been reading James D for as long as I have been on air gun forums,I think he is one of the most informed people out there.
What I don't understand is why many of those questions would be Better answered by the manufactures of the products you are interested in.....
I have found that most manufactures have web pages or phone numbers that can help customers with the questions they want answered.
Another big plus for ME,is that I feel like I am acknowledge as a customer.
Taking this route over the years I have been able to talk to engineers,tech people and best ,the owners.
I have been surprised to be able to talk to such knowledgeable people over the years,one time I called a major brand and was asking a question,the person I was talking to said the owner was right there and did I want to talk to him,OK.
I have been reading James D for as long as I have been on air gun forums,I think he is one of the most informed people out there.
Upvote 0
Wow.
Perhaps the all-time/forever champion forum conversation for most outrageous WTF tangents. I was so impressed with how far this got from the original topic that I skimmed through it again, literally trying to see the mental gymnastics that created this synaptic leap
randomness. (I wasn't able to follow how it ended up where it did).
Just wow.
And I started reading this with true interest in hearing what others have to think about LW barrels and their preferred pellets/speeds.
Perhaps the all-time/forever champion forum conversation for most outrageous WTF tangents. I was so impressed with how far this got from the original topic that I skimmed through it again, literally trying to see the mental gymnastics that created this synaptic leap
randomness. (I wasn't able to follow how it ended up where it did).Just wow.
And I started reading this with true interest in hearing what others have to think about LW barrels and their preferred pellets/speeds.
Upvote 0
Here is the results from my LW barrel on my Crosman 1701P This is 25 different pellets, 3 pellets per box, shot it 10 meters indoors. Everything from Daisy pointed to JSB Heavy. It was hard to pick a winner!
Upvote 0