Looking for help with technique (shooting off a bag, off a bench)

i'd brace it with 2 bags and adjust it so it sits right where you want it and basically isnt moving, how tight you grab it just needs to be consistent lol .. how i do it anyway .. different springers especially react to being supported at different points, just have to try different things ..

i keep the bag there to rest my hand on, sometimes using it for minor adjustments. 





or just grab a beer.

Your technique sounds really good. If the barrel has never been cleaned the you need to clean it. You can play with the different things others mentioned. Dizzums mentioned moving the bag around to different points on the gun. Some guns like to be rested close to the trigger guard and some guns like to be rested farther out. Move the bag around and find the sweet spot. The main thing is to be very consistent. One thing you didn’t mention is breathing, others may be able to elaborate but exhale before you shoot. Depending on shoulder pressure, some lefties need to shoot between heart beats. You can also try different pellets. Although most Weihrauch’s love the ftt 5.53 I have heard that some HW .22’s really like H&N field target trophy green pellets and Predator GTO pellets. Have fun and enjoy. The HW97k is a great gun to shoot from the bench. 

I would do exactly what dizzums said and I would also use your non trigger hand (left hand if shooting righty) to gently support the rifle where the forward bag is.

One more thing. Most people having trouble with a springer are holding it to tight. From what you describe you might be holding it a little to loose. I would try a little firmer pressure on the butt of the rifle against your shoulder.

I have found that springers need some front to back movement upon firing so make sure your bag is not to " grippy" and the surface the rifle sets on allows it to slide easily front to back. I use a smal pc of slippery cloth on my sandbag and use the non trigger hand to support the butt. I use a firm grip but not to block the front to rear movement. You need to be able to duplicate whatever hold you find works for your rifle.

You’ve received a lot of good advice in the previous posts. I’ll add several things and underscore others:

1-clean your barrel

2-check and make sure all your stock screws and scope mount screws are snug

3-as suggested previously, get something slick, like silk, to place between your front bag and the stock. Go to a thrift store and buy a silk scarf or pillow case for a dollar 

4-I’ve had FTT and Beeman FTS shoot very well out of many of my Weihrauch.22 barrels but try other pellets

5-get a rear bag. As others suggested it doesn’t have to fully support the rifle, your hand/fist underneath can make the final, finesse adjustments to get on target. Here’s the big one....once you’re on target, relax. If your POA changes after relaxing make adjustments to re-acquire your target before pulling the trigger 

6-before you SQUEEZE the trigger take a full breath, let half of it out and squeeze the trigger in the next 4 seconds. If you’re not on target/comfortable squeezing the trigger let your breath out and start over

Books have been written about shooting techniques but hopefully this advice from many in this thread will encourage you on your journey to ultimate accuracy 

Lots of movement in the action of a springer, and lots of time from trigger pull to pellet leaving the barrel. Anything that "allows movement" is counterproductive, IMO. My most accurate springers are 1)heavy (less movement) and 2)flat bottomed (a bit more consistency in any movement that does occur). Consider how the rifle can move with recoil and make sure it isn't causing a rise or fall in muzzle angle IF it slides forward or backwards.

Thanks all for the suggestions. This article describes how I hold the gun: http://pneuzoo.weebly.com/hold-sensitivity-by-russ.html

The exception being, I use a bag under the fore end, without my left hand being between the bag and stock (my right hand is my trigger hand). I did try it, using my left hand as a cushion, but the results were bad.

I am able to get fairly consistent results, but the results are not as good as I'd like. I tried something different with my left last night, and things improved noticeably. But I don't really know what is a "proper" thing to do with my left hand, as far as how to support the butt end.

Which is what prompted this thread. Should I lay left hand flat and support the stock? Palm up, or down? Or should I make a fist under the stock? Does it matter? I've seen pictures similar to Frank's image above, with the shooter's non-trigger hand tucked in, but exact details of the hand's position and shape are never shown or described. Maybe I'm looking at this with too much detail.



Regarding klentz's post above:

1. cleaning does not seem to change things much, but I'll try it again
2. I store the gun with all the screws backed off, and tighten them before every session. They do not loosen up during a session. I have posted the fore end, and the larger trigger guard screw, and have shims under the smaller trigger guard screw. This allows the screws to tighten down on something (metal) positively, while still applying some pressure to the wood, without squishing the wood. The action is captured enough that I do not think it is permitted to move around in the stock. I may do a proper bedding at some point.
3. I tried using a wash cloth in between my suede-ish bag rest and stock....but the rifle loses its vertical stability when I do this. I'll try again.
4. I have tried a ton of pellets over the last year (including the lead frees....but they're not exactly cheap). I have several more on pre-order too. But I have shot large ragged holes with the FTT's (and shot gun patterns too). I think if I could just tighten it up some more, with some technique improvements that get me even more consistency, then I'll go through my inventory again to see if I can shrink it more with different pellets. Just trying to not change too many variables at a time for now.
5. Yup. Will try again shortly (today).
6. Yes. And additionally, if I see my pulse in the scope (which isn't always), AND I time the shot in between beats, things usually end up really good down range. I need to figure out where my heart beat is transferring to the stock....and eliminate it, or transfer it consistently, so I can time it every time.
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   I did try to locate a springer shooting technique book but, I didn't try too hard, and I didn't come up with anything. A lot of stuff for specific powder burners though.
   

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   I never sand bag an air rifle ask anyone who knows me and has seen me shoot. The reason is the springer needs to do a bit of free recoil in a consistent offhand hold to shoot precisely. If you can make a group off a rest bully for you but my rifles whether heavy target or light shooting are all sighted in off hand to hit an inch at 35 yards. Bully for anyone who invents the perfect ransom rest for a springer but it ain't possible--the rifle needs to MOVE when it is fired.

Try going in the other direction. Everyone (or almost everyone) says that springers need movement. Try holding it tight to your shoulder and readjust the scope for zero in that position. Shoot it that way through a number of pellets and see how it performs. My HW97 likes a tighter hold.

"I store the gun with all the screws backed off, and tighten them before every session. "



This is a red flag to me. Tighten the screws and leave them alone. Lots of folks put blue loctite on them also. That's optional IMO.

I think you're getting inconsistent tightening each time.

not likely to help, but how i was shooting yesterday... pretty much the way i hold 'em all.

 The post above. You can’t tighten and loosen your screws all the time. Every time you tighten the screws down on a springer, you’re going to have a somewhat different point of impact.

Some Springers work better with a firm hold. Every springer reacts differently.

Your forward hand, should be in contact with the forearm, either right in front of the front rest or in back of the front rest. You could also put your hand in between the forend end and your bag. 


When I shoot good groups with a springer, it’s not bouncing all over the place. It’s very controlled. Especially a magnum. That said I’m not holding it still, but often I am holding it firmly.

Sounds to me like you’re doing well. If you have not tried them, try some JSB jumbo 15.9.

Tighten the screws firmly back them off a little bit, just a hair so you’re not crushing the wood as you mentioned, and then leave them. It’s a good idea to put a little of the non-permanent Loctite.

have fun

mike

mike

Based on your picture above. I would back the front rest up towards me a little bit. You’ve got it quite a ways out on the end of the forearm, quite a bit past the balance point. And then get your forward hand out there right against it which ever is more comfortable either in front or behind. It should be touching the bag and the forend. 


You are holding the rifle, just like you’re holding someone firmly slow dancing. Cheek hands shoulder all in firm contact.

I would get some kind of a rear bag even if it’s just a small pillow and try that. You can put it right below your hand where you’re holding the rifle.

That front rest is your friend, it gives you stability as well as the rifle. Try to think about welding everything together in your mind.

After you move your front rest closer, maybe try wrapping your fingers up around that tripod right where it meets the front rest. Maybe throw your thumb over the top of it. Try some stuff see how the rifle reacts. Thread your fingers through the tripod.

Think about this, when a sniper is shooting from the prone position, they want every part of their body in touch with the ground that they can. They want everything welded together into one unit. Create that feeling

Then slowly squeeze the trigger. Watch what happens in your scope. It should be the same every time. If sometimes the rifle bounces right, and sometimes left, so will your groups. If you hold one shot to light out of the five, it will be high. You’ll figure all this out.

And leave your screws tightened.

mike

Based on your picture above.

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If that was to me mike, being one guy with a camera's tiny 10-second timer, didn't quite get back to the table and set fast enough.





the may 12th example i posted above, that one was better. prob should've used this one instead. 



anyway, yeah, in my experience, makes for easier shooting... less effort put into the up/down while aiming.

I think I was looking at the wrong picture, but you both have the same style. There are many ways to skin a cat. Unless it’s a heavy low powered springer, I’m going to want to hold it firm. How firm depends on the rifle.

mike

Honestly you all think about what I said earlier and even try it out.

Offhand shoot the rifle standing up at 10 yards or 45 yards and make a group to adjust your sights and once adjusted in the "offhand" "upright" position you'll always know you will hit the target when your wiggles and breathing and heartbeat all line up to release the dwelling pellet that needs a barrel pointed consistently in the upright hold to group. You can group your rifle at 5 yards if 10 yards is too far, but it is easy to sight in a rifle of any type standing offhand at 12 yards (pistol combat range).

Your sandbags and adjustable props and the way you move and move to reload and such are TOO much difference in hold to NAIL down to a FIXED rest. You are better off bringing the target closer to yourself to fire OFFHAND instead of worrying about "movement" (like heartbeat, wavering in place, etc). You WILL be able to shoot ONE HOLE groups OFFHAND at SOME yardage comfortable enough for you to shoot steady only when the "time" is right.

There is no such thing as a Ransom Rest for springers. Springers have to recoil CONSISTENTLY to make groups and letting that springer RECOIL in your standing shoulders is the BEST way to sight in and maintain ZERO anytime YOU WANDER OUT INTO THE FIELD to shoot!