LiPo Batteries for the Red Wolf…Charging and Storage Safety.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
stoti

stoti

Member
Apr 6, 2018
3,238
426
Beautiful Northern California, United States
The Red Wolf is a fairly new platform for me and the only air gun we own that uses a LiPo battery. My Red Wolf came with one LiPo battery, I wanted a couple of spares, so I researched a bit and bought a couple on line. When they arrived, there were all kinds of warnings about charging rates, discharging rates, cycling, charge precautions, not storing fully charged, not over draining and then a bunch more precautions about safe storage and the possibility of fires. The warnings made these batteries sound pretty dangerous. 

My question is about the storage of these batteries…Are they really as volatile as the warnings makes them sound or is it more of a precaution for very rare instances? I’ve never heard anybody ever mention anything about these kind of precautions or spontaneous fires but maybe I just wasn’t paying attention because I didn’t have a Red Wolf. Are they really this volatile and if you do store them in some kind of LiPo Safe container, what do you use? Obviously, even if it is more of a precaution than anything else, I need to store them safely and would like to know what is really considered safe? What do you guys use? 

Thanks and have a great day!

Stoti
 
I've have some, both large and small, for probably 7 or 8 years now. They do require specific charging and maintenance, at least for the multi-cell versions. Storage charge is lower than full charge and the chargers made for the multi-cell versions aren't cheap but they will do everything needed, such as storage charge/full charge for use/balance cells. The single cell types seem to be pretty forgiving. I've never had one burn but it seems to be quite possible and they do burn hot and long with lots of smoke from what I've seen. I keep my multi-cell versions in battery bags inside large ammo cans but the single cell types just lie around a lot of the time. Not sure of the Red Wolf battery type but I bet it is a multi-cell type. I'd research it a bit for safety.
 
Upvote 0
These are the same types of batteries that Are used in drones. They have very high energy density and if it gets punctured they go absolutely bananas.

I had one that got a small hole in it and it puffed up a little bit start getting hot giving off a little smoke. i tossed it onto the gravel bed in my front yard and it was shooting at 2-3 foot flame for a good 15-30 seconds there.



I have many many many of these types of batteries I store them in an ammunition box, that’s the only one that’s really given me a hard time. Don’t store them fully charged, NEVER let the fully discharge. If you’re not going to use them for a while I’d recommend storing at 3.6 v if you want them to last and hold charge in the future. 
 
Upvote 0
Stoti, don't know about the Red Wolf batteries specifically but do know that LiPo batteries in general require a certain storage/use regimen. They have a potential for heating & burning under certain conditions. Odd that I just read this because at the moment I'm draining power from my Phantom quadcopter batteries for safe storage! From what I understand there are restrictive regulations about shipping them by air BECAUSE of the heat & fire potential. I'm pretty sure the Red Wolf batteries are way smaller than my Phantom batteries but do know they do have the power to fry the electronics in almost anything that uses them if not handled correctly. I LOVE my "low tech" guns! 
 
Upvote 0
Sorry guys, once again, I started this message, went to the kitchen, finished the message and there were two more messages that were posted in the interim that answered a lot of my questions. So, this message might seem a little out of place. Sorry about that. Thank you for all of your replies though, I really appreciate it!





Thanks! (BandG) How are you? All is well down there in your neck of the woods, I hope!

We’ve finally got this strange wet stuff falling from the sky last night and again today. I think they used to call it “rain”. 😜 I’ll tell you, it’s all or nothing out here in Nor Cal. No rain for 5-6 years and then it started last night and by the end of tomorrow we’re supposed to get like 7-8 inches and then more all next week. We certainly need it and more importantly, it will bring the Salmon and Steelhead to the rivers! Yeah baby!!! The early rains have got me excited after 5-6 years of drought and horrible Salmon & Steelhead returns. Hopefully, the early rains will mean good runs and great fishing! Okay, now back on topic…

I did quite a bit of research before I made the post but most all of the information pertains to the larger, multi cell LiPo batteries for those remote control, electric race cars. That’s what made me curious…Are those large, multi cell batteries more susceptible to fire because there are so many more cells? I just really don’t know much about these batteries and want to make sure that I take the necessary precautions. I mainly wanted to know what people use to store them? I certainly want my family, home and equipment to be safe but I don’t want to have another ammo can just for two tiny little batteries. My truck’s back seat is already loaded with tripods, bipods, Gimbal heads, ball heads, carbon fiber braces, shooting mats, full size RMAC/EBR targets, metal targets, etc, etc… I’ve whittled everything else down to one large shooting bag, our large carbon fiber tank and then our four gun cases.

The batteries are so small, about 100mm x 18mm x 8mm. An ammo box sounds safe but I’d love to use something safe and much, much smaller!

Anybody else have any small, fire proof ideas to store these batteries? I’d love to hear them!

Stoti
 
Upvote 0
Yes, they can be every bit as dangerous as the warnings state. I'm sure you heard of the laptop fires and phones going up in smoke so it does happen. But not very often. I would be wary about buying the cheap unknown China made brands as they are often not up to snuff and more likely to cause problems. It's a shame that the Made in USA A123 sold out to China some years back as they made some of the best of the LIPO batts, I trust the Panasonic and LG made Japanese and Korean made batteries more than the stuff made in China and have had many of them, and even some small China made batteries, around for many years without problems.

I have mistreated my A123 batts something awful in my ignorance and destroyed many by over discharging them on my electric bikes. Never had a fire but they got so hot once that I pulled them from my bike and threw them on the ground until they cooled off because I thought they were going to burn. The A123 2650s did not burn but many popped their safety caps and were never the same afterwards.

Treat them decent don't damage or over discharge them and store them in something that will not catch fire and you will be fine.



Sorry, bike batts are Li-ion not Lipo
 
Upvote 0
I have a ton of lipos from my fpv race drones. Generally they don't spontaneously combust if they're not damaged. I never store them fully charged, bring em down to 3.8volts per cell. You can get lipo safe-ish bags on Amazon. It's more like gives you time to get them outside if one does go up. Any puffy ones or damaged, best to discard them--usually I hook up a discharger and then drop em in a battery recycling bin. 


 
Upvote 0
Thanks guys.



qball,

At first, when I started looking into all of this, I was thinking the same thing. But really, it sounds like the risk of fire is very small and charging them and discharging them is pretty straightforward too. I have three now, I’m just going to use the stock battery 99% of the time and keep the others at the recommended voltage in case I ever need them. In reality, the stock battery lasts for a very, very long time so it’s pretty much a non issue, I’m just going to use it all the time and keep the others in case of an emergency.



biohazardman,

The person who recommended the batteries that I purchased is a Daystate Master. He knows more about the Red Wolf than anybody I know and is very well known and respected. He shoots for Daystate and AOA, is part of the Daystate ART Team, owns many RedWolf air guns, shoots them, repairs them and modifies them, etc… He recommended I buy a couple spares, I didn’t know what to buy, so I asked him. When he recommended a particular battery, I bought it. His word is as good as gold as far as I’m concerned. I never gave it a second thought! To tell you the truth, I don’t know where they’re made, I’ll have to check them out a little more closely.



Andrew, 

Thanks brotha. I already have a bunch of metal ammo cans around the house. I’ll store the batteries in those and buy a few of the LiPo battery bags for when the batteries are in my gun bag. 

Have a great weekend guys.

Stoti
 
Upvote 0
LiPo batteries are what made high powered electric RC model airplanes possible. A lot of power in a small light weight package. The RC guys treat them with respect and use fireproof containers for storage, transportation and charging.

As I understand it they require the addition of a catalyst before they will spontaneously combust. Unfortunately that catalyst is plain old AIR.

So any damage, puncture or incorrect charging and POOF.

PS: Don't confuse them with Li-ion batteries like those used in cell phones.
 
Upvote 0
ive never had problems with a lipo fire and used them in rc high demand current situations since they came out around 2000 ... but .. i have had some minor incidents with other battery types ... in almost every situation involving fire and a battery its a short or physical damage to the battery that is the reason .. just sitting, theyll be fine as long as they wont possibly short somehow ... as far as charging dont run them low or theyll be damaged .. permanently .. and if you use the proper charger they wont over charge ..
 
Upvote 0
Sorry guys, once again, I started this message, went to the kitchen, finished the message and there were two more messages that were posted in the interim that answered a lot of my questions. So, this message might seem a little out of place. Sorry about that. Thank you for all of your replies though, I really appreciate it!





Thanks! (BandG) How are you? All is well down there in your neck of the woods, I hope!

We’ve finally got this strange wet stuff falling from the sky last night and again today. I think they used to call it “rain”. 😜 I’ll tell you, it’s all or nothing out here in Nor Cal. No rain for 5-6 years and then it started last night and by the end of tomorrow we’re supposed to get like 7-8 inches and then more all next week. We certainly need it and more importantly, it will bring the Salmon and Steelhead to the rivers! Yeah baby!!! The early rains have got me excited after 5-6 years of drought and horrible Salmon & Steelhead returns. Hopefully, the early rains will mean good runs and great fishing! Okay, now back on topic…

I did quite a bit of research before I made the post but most all of the information pertains to the larger, multi cell LiPo batteries for those remote control, electric race cars. That’s what made me curious…Are those large, multi cell batteries more susceptible to fire because there are so many more cells? I just really don’t know much about these batteries and want to make sure that I take the necessary precautions. I mainly wanted to know what people use to store them? I certainly want my family, home and equipment to be safe but I don’t want to have another ammo can just for two tiny little batteries. My truck’s back seat is already loaded with tripods, bipods, Gimbal heads, ball heads, carbon fiber braces, shooting mats, full size RMAC/EBR targets, metal targets, etc, etc… I’ve whittled everything else down to one large shooting bag, our large carbon fiber tank and then our four gun cases.

The batteries are so small, about 100mm x 18mm x 8mm. An ammo box sounds safe but I’d love to use something safe and much, much smaller!

Anybody else have any small, fire proof ideas to store these batteries? I’d love to hear them!

Stoti
Click to expand...

Just cooled off from summer heat recently, and dry. Looks like you guys are in for a major mess with the approaching storm. Hope it treats you well.

As others have stated, most issues appear to arise from physical damage but the damage can also be internal (cell balance and/or shorting related to my understanding) and not readily visible. I always watch them visibly during charging and keep feeling for any excess heat, which seems to be an indication of failure. RC car use bounces them around in a way a gun would never likely experience. Overall, for a gun I'd say don't dwell on it and just maintain (and store) them as the manual should describe. They do recommend storage at a lower room temperature for longer life and I believe some people even store them in a refrigerator. A/C room temp has worked well for mine.
 
Upvote 0
I agree in this scenario a fire would only happen if damaged or if there was a manufacturing error. Just like I don’t really think about the battery in my cell phone - you can probably just think of it that way because it’s also a lithium ion or lithium polymer battery.


It is also my understanding that fires occur most often when the batteries are being charged as opposed to discharged or stored. Not sure if this is accurate. 
 
Upvote 0
Tommy, that was exactly what I was thinking when I originally asked the question…If it can be in the gun sitting around, why can’t it just be sitting in by gun bag? I get it, the batteries are safe most of the time, the problems usually occur when charging or when damaged. However, after reading all the safety precautions, I think I’ll keep the spares in a small ammo can just for the sake of safety. Not too worried about it though!

Have a great day.

Stoti
 
Upvote 0
Tommy, that was exactly what I was thinking when I originally asked the question…If it can be in the gun sitting around, why can’t it just be sitting in by gun bag? I get it, the batteries are safe most of the time, the problems usually occur when charging or when damaged. However, after reading all the safety precautions, I think I’ll keep the spares in a small ammo can just for the sake of safety. Not too worried about it though!

Have a great day.

Stoti
Click to expand...

Thanks Kevin!

I guess I’m OK keeping my primary battery in my gun, when I store it in the safe. As long as it is not damaged…makes sense. Based on this informative thread, I’m changing two things:

1. I have been keeping my spare on top of the safe and I guess I too will buy a metal ammo box just to be sure and store it in there from now on

2. I will never again leave house while I’m charging the battery. Better to monitor while it is charging. 

When our two kids were very young, we had “two” fireplace incidents ( both small fires around Christmas time two consecutive years); whereby the Fire Department saved our home - twice. This dummy (me) hired a couple of allegeded fire place builders, who took a couple short cuts ( safety violations) and almost burned down our house ‘fixing’ our wood burning fire place. NET: I.e., not following fire code specs.

Very careful now about fire safety. Lesson learned. My family never lets me forget. 😀


 
Upvote 0
Yep Tommy, I agree with you 100%. Because of all the stuff I read on line, I got a little worried but just like you mentioned, if you can store the battery in your gun, why not the gun bag? In the end though, this was a great discussion and cleared up a few things. It sounds like old or damaged batteries are the real culprit or overcharging a battery while unattended. I’m glad I asked, there were some great responses that make perfect sense, now I won’t worry.

Have a great afternoon.

Stoti 
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu