Legally limited to 24 joules, .177 for speed and penetration or .22 for power?

I'm not sure how many FT-LBS are needed to pierce a hog skull, but you don't want to shoot a standard Diabolo shaped pellet faster than 880 ft/s usually. Check out the youtube video by Matt where he talks about the transonic region and how speeds above 880 can negatively affect your accuracy. 

If you are hunting rabbits, I would go for the .22 and find an accurate pellet that doesn't penetrate as much but instead opens up and dispenses all the energy inside the rabbit. You want them to POP when hit, not have the pellet go all the way through them. Something like the JBS hades or polymags at 880 ft/sec would be ideal IMO.

Frankly unless we’re talking really small hogs, I think the recommendation would be neither caliber at 17fpe. It can be done, as Manny (nomadicpirate) has demonstrated but he’s extraordinarily well practiced and arranged the circumstances to be as near ideal as possible. Under more typical conditions, that sort of thing would be a very low percentage shot. Please note I’m speaking as someone who has published scopecam footage of low energy pest control that some would consider a bad idea so I’m definitely not biased toward the other end of the spectrum.



Having said that, if you really must choose one or the other for this purpose, it should be .177 for the penetration and perhaps see if a hard alloy (e.g. Crosman 10.5gr “heavies” as opposed to a JSB) will give you the necessary accuracy. Hogs generally have thick, tough skulls, especially in adulthood. I’m hedging a little bit with ‘generally’ because I expect it varies by species and that hasn’t been specified. Due to this variable and a variety of others, it would be a good idea to practice on a cadaver before pressing it into service. 

177 for a hog skull, a 22 with that low of a velocity doesn’t have a chance. I have had luck shooting .177 pellets out to 50 yds very accurately with velocities in the 1050 FPS range. Crosman 10.5, barracuda hunter, and the 10 gr jsb. Most accurate in that order with a marauder. One idea too is using slugs in the 177 for rabbits, that would be a way of having a 177 but shooting something on the same energy level as the 22.

Sorry, I misread the original post when I replied earlier. I thought it was saying game ranging from hogs down to rabbits so I focused too much on the hog aspect, but you were only mentioning it as an example of something you’d seen.



So in the context of small game, either caliber would serve you well. The issue of insufficient penetration would not enter into the equation. The main thing to consider is how vigilant you want to be with rangefinding. The larger caliber will be more forgiving of shot placement, but because of its lower velocity, you will need to know the distance for each shot pretty accurately and compensate the elevation for it (via mildots or dialing the turret). Otherwise, the advantage of being more forgiving may be more than canceled out by poor placement.



In the smaller caliber, you’d have a considerably longer point blank range where you can just hold on the crosshair. In scenarios where you have only a few seconds to make the shot, that can be more advantageous.



I’ve used both in the 16-20fpe range for this purpose and I prefer .177 but that’s just me.

i've been hunting rabbits and squirrels for years with a 15fpe .22 rifle. i've even taken raccoons and opossums with it. shot placement is everything when hunting. recently i purchased a .177 rifle that puts out 17fpe. in it's 1st week i shot 2 rabbits at 44 yards and 2 squirrels at 20 and 36 yards. some say stay away from slow .22s because of the "loopy" trajectory. "loopy" is a not the correct terminology. the pellet doesn't loop, it arcs, and if you can deal with that at distance, you'll be fine.

maybe someone here can calculate what the energy difference would be at 40 meters between a .177 and a .22. they would need some liberty as to what weight pellet, but if they used a common weight, say 8.5 for .177 and 15.9 for .22, it would give an idea as to how much energy you would have down range.

Go with a .177 and shoot the 13g JSB MONSTER, an excellent combination at that power level, especially in a Daystate Redwolf with a poly barrel.

.22 with the heavier pellet will lose velocity less than the .177 because mass will keep it going giving it more downrange energy 

I'd pick the .22

It doesn't really work out that way when constraining the energy level like this.



For example, in .177 a JSB 10.3gr at 860fps (16.9fpe) retains 11fpe at 50 yards.



Whereas in .22 a JSB 14.3gr at 730fps (also 16.9fpe) retains just a bit over 8fpe at 50 yards.



To get the .22 to retain more energy, you'd have to substitute the much heavier 18.1gr. But at a muzzle velocity of only 650fps, it will be a bit like lobbing mortar shells...which brings us back to the necessity of vigilant rangefinding and holdover compensation, and perhaps the risk of insufficient penetration.

Hi guys, my country have a legal limit of 24 joules (around 17.6 Foot Pounds) in air weapons.

I know that 24j is enough to take down small game, but I wonder if the .22, traveling much slower is really taking advantage over a .177 traveling near supersonic speeds whit that force.

I see some surprising videos of people taking down hogs whit spring powered .177 air guns, I guess its logical that size doesn't matter if you can pierce the skull. I don't intend to hunt anything else than rabbits, but I also whant the best posible performance for just the sake of it.



Hipotetically speaking, from 20/40 meters... wich caliber shooted at 24j/17.6fpe has more chances to pass a thick hog skull? the .177 or the .22?

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There's only a certain place on the hogs skull that has to be hit for an airgun to be effective. Michael (a AGN moderator ) killed a large hog with a airgun and had it's skull treated for display. Look at the pictures he posted and you will see the critical point that you have to hit. Maybe someone can find that picture? 

I would go with the .177 for accuracy and penetration, 

The .22 is going to be traveling at much slower speeds with the 17.6 foot pound restriction, the result is you are going to be dealing with windage. It is going to be much more important to get good accuracy. 

Rabbits are pretty fragile for the most part and I have done my share of playing Elmer Fudd with a .177 and rabbits 

Well, 23fpe is an energy level that is something of a no-man's land between what is generally optimal for either .22 or .177. By that I mean there is a sweet spot around 20fpe in .177 where you have a couple of 10.x grain pellets like the JSB 10.3gr and H&N Baracuda Match 10.65gr running about 900fps which often group well in many barrels. Granted, if the barrel happens to like an extra heavy .177 like the 13.4gr JSB Monster, that would be a match made in heaven. But if it doesn't like them, the odds aren't so good finding another pellet that will give you adequate precision for small game at extended ranges (50 yards or more). If your shots will tend to be inside of 30 yards or so, that may not be much of a concern.

Similarly, for .22 cal there is a spot around 28 - 33fpe where the JSB 15.9gr and 18.1gr really shine. At "only" 23fpe they can do quite well but you will be dealing with a more pronounced trajectory. If you're diligent about rangefinding and have the rifle characterized well (a good holdover table), that's not so much a problem.

Having said all that, please note that if the spec for the rifle you're eyeing is 23fpe in .22 cal, it's very likely going to be closer to 18fpe in .177 cal. The reason is the air pressure has less area on which to push to accelerate the smaller caliber, thus the resulting energy will be somewhat less. That would actually be a good thing IMO because it's right where the aforementioned pellets do very well.

Lastly, on the topic of efficacy, the larger caliber would probably be a slightly better choice for any common small or medium game besides a hog. On stuff like rabbits, squirrels, raccoon, etc., you'd have plenty of penetration to get the job done and the larger wound channel would afford you some margin on shots that are placed less than ideal. But the hog presents a bit of a conundrum because some species have extremely thick skulls and the .22 may not have enough gusto to get through, particularly on larger mature specimens. Also, a frontal shot will need more energy on impact than one from the side. And naturally, distance plays a role because of how quickly pellets shed velocity. So just to list off some factors to consider:

1. species of hog
2. age/size of hog
3. distance
4. shot placement

I think you'll have to ruminate on these topics a bit and weigh them against your expected hunting opportunities. Meaning if you expect a hog will be in your crosshairs 1% of the time and the other 99% is going to be other forms of game, perhaps the prudent choice becomes more clear.

i've been hunting rabbits and squirrels for years with a 15fpe .22 rifle. i've even taken raccoons and opossums with it. shot placement is everything when hunting. recently i purchased a .177 rifle that puts out 17fpe. in it's 1st week i shot 2 rabbits at 44 yards and 2 squirrels at 20 and 36 yards. some say stay away from slow .22s because of the "loopy" trajectory. "loopy" is a not the correct terminology. the pellet doesn't loop, it arcs, and if you can deal with that at distance, you'll be fine.

maybe someone here can calculate what the energy difference would be at 40 meters between a .177 and a .22. they would need some liberty as to what weight pellet, but if they used a common weight, say 8.5 for .177 and 15.9 for .22, it would give an idea as to how much energy you would have down range.

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What rifle are you using? I am wondering because I am looking for a new airgun that is accurate about 30 yards for rabbits.

17 ft. lbs. is enough for a 22 cal. I ran a RWS M34 in .22 and 12 ft. pounds for several decades and found it fine for thirty yards and closer. Your power level is half again more so I would go with the .22 as the larger diameter has much better killing power.

Broken WV... I agree that 880 with a Haydes would be plenty to dispatch bunnies out to fifty yards. Not sure if that weight/velocity is attainable without more than the legal power limit Savagefox is restricted to. Easy enough to go to NSA slugs and use their power calculator. I would add the 18gr. JSB or Air Arms to the list for .22. The effect of passing through super sonic to subsonic is well known. The speed of sound is around 1100 feet per second so a muzzle velocity of 880 starts out subsonic so there is no trans sonic barrier to worry about. I have watched many vids posted by Matt and other highly capable air gun shooters and pushing pellets past the low to mid 900s leads to poor accuracy. Thats just the nature of skirted pellets. Slugs are a completely different projectile but I doubt they will be starting supersonic at this power level even out of a .177

Didn't Andy cover this in one of his youtoob videos. Also you can't forget one other piece of the equation and that is BC. Which I think he mentions as well. Maybe someone more qualified than me can find it and give a heads up to it. 

I can't add anything to this discussion except that .177 pellets are cheaper... if you can find the ones you need.