Least Psi or Bar used per shot

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CampFussell

CampFussell

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Apr 1, 2015
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Burgaw NC, United States
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Hey guys, I've got a friend who's looking at making the jump from Springer to PCP.

And like most of us , he will start out hand pumping. I'm just sitting here trying to figure what fair priced .177 or .22 would give him the best psi use per shot and a gun that would have a hand pump friendly lower fill pressure?

For instance my unregulated (20 fpe) .177 FX Logan shoots best at the top of the curve with a 2600 psi fill to 1700 psi for 35 shots. That gives me (25.7 psi) or (1.8 bar) per shot used. I know I can fill it to higher pressure and shoot lower pressure and get more shots per fill, but best accuracy is lost.

I was thinking this is a great gun for someone who hand pumps because of the lower fill pressure?

Then I did the math on my (20 fpe) Thomas.....2900 psi fill to 1450 psi for 115 shots on the money. That's 12.6 psi or 0.9 bar per shot. So the Logun is half as efficient with air as the Thomas with Logun shooting at the top of it's curve.

Then I did the math for the (27 fpe) unregulated Wolverine. 3045 psi fill down to 2465 for shots at top of the curve. That's 16.6 psi per shot or 1.1 bar per shot. So, it's more efficient than the Logun, but needs a little over a 3000 psi fill.

Just for giggles, my little (45 fpe) Firecraker .22 cal Cricket pup (225 bar) 3260 fill down to 2400 psi for two mags at 28 shots = 33.6 psi per shot or 2.3 bar per shot. Not too bad for the power it's putting out. I could put more air in it and shoot it lower in pressure, but this is the way I fill it and shoot it for best accuracy.

OK, if you're still with me and I haven't drifted too far off subject, I'm open to recommendations from you hand pumpers. Also, links to great info will be appreciated as well. I'm googling for info, but I know if I ask, someone will always find or recommend something I wasn't aware of. Been a long time since I was concerned with air efficiency because of hand pumping. Plus I have a bad case of CRS !

PS. on a side note he's eyeballing the Hatsan AT44-10QE and the good ol' Benjamin Marauder in .22 cal. I recommended the Marauder of course, but didn't know if a P-rod would be better as far as hand pumps go? Then there's the Gamo Urban which I like and the Gauntlet. Too many dang choices! 

I'll forward him this link to show how helpful you guys can be, and maybe get him interested in the forum as well?

I'm such an enabler ;-)

Thanks in advance

Peace and hand pump grease

Fuss



Update, he's leaning towards the Hatsan AT44-10QE ...I have no experience with these what so ever. So help from you Hatsan hand pumpers would be great!



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If he's needing to use a hand pump from my experience small cylinders are usually the easiest. If he's looking at a Hatsan the Flash in .22 wouldn't be a bad choice really. I had one for awhile and was pretty pleased with its performance and accuracy. The Marauder wouldn't be a bad entry into PCP because down the road when he gets a tank he could easily tune it for a higher fill pressure. I have a .22 Marauder that I was using a pump on for a few years, its sweet spot was right around 2700 and would shoot 3 mags. I'd stay away from any bottle gunfor pumping. 
 
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Thanks Crosman, I always recommend the Marauder. Not sure what's making him lean more towards the Hatsan? Could be that the Pyramyd Air specs call for Hatsan's 42 shots per fill with a 180cc air cylinder vs the Marauder listed at 30 shots per fill with a 215 cc air cylinder?

Been a while since I had a Marauder, but filled the .25 I had to 3000 psi and the .177 Marauder to 2800 or 2900.

Fuss
 
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first, what's the budget for the gun and pump combo? Will it be a Hill Pump or the cheapo $55 pump off Ebay or Amazon?

I have a Marauder, yes it does get 30 shots per fill in either .22 or .177. The reason I ask about the budget is that the Field and Target version will get 80 shots instead of the 30 the regular version gets. I just upgraded my Marauder with a regulator, new valve and hammer springs, and a new transfer port. Total about $125 and last test got over 60 shots on the regulator. By the time you add up the improvements to mine, a Field and Target is cheaper.

Couple ways to skin the Marauder Field and Target animal. PA has the F&T for $600 and offers a 10% discount with the Nation19 Code you can see in the banner above. That's $540 for the gun, then he'll need a pump and scope.

Another option is to buy on the Crosman site. They've had (but I don't see any more) a 25% off coupon. The Field and Target with the Crosman barrel is $630 on www.crosman.com, then use the 25% off (if it's still good) makes it about $475, and if you order on Friday, they usually give free shipping. If I remember correctly, the code was AGNATION, but it may not be valid any more.

Another option for hand pumping is the Maximus. It's a 2000 PSI fill, so pumping is easy. It's not regulated, is a single shot bolt, and the trigger isn't nearly as good as a Marauder, but full price is only $230, leaving room for a nice pump. Again, buy through Crosman with the AGNATION (if it's still good) code, or PA with the NATION19 code for 10% off. I do prefer a magazine and the Marauder trigger is so much better.

For hand pumping a bottle gun is pretty much out of the question. The Marauder takes around 100 strokes to get from 1800PSI to 2800 PSI. Doesn't sound like much till you do it. Takes all the fun out of shooting.
 
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Thank you Saltlake

You've sold me on the Marauder FT for sure!

If I was my buddy Glenn I would jump all over that FT Marauder for $600 with the 10% discount Nation19 Code ! You see this Glenn???? LOL

$540 with the discount and it's regulated with 60 to 80 shots per fill!

I would take it a step further and get the LW barrel! LOL

or $612 with the LW barrel

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin_Marauder_Field_And_Target_Air_Rifle/4316#8337

And Glenn I have one of the cheap Ebay hand pumps you can have if you buy the Marauder instead of the Hatsan? LOL Just kidding, I'll give it to you either way! Also got a 3-12x44 UTG you can borrow.

Saltlake, thanks for the input on this man!

Fuss


 
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One more thing to consider. I've been doing lots to my gun. Parts for the Marauder are available at both Hill Airguns and from Crosman. Not sure where you can get parts for a Hatsan or other international makes. Crosman is made in the US, designed in the US and keeps people in the US employed. Granted, I also own an FX keeping Swedes employed, but to e honest, one of my deciding factors on the Marauder was the Designed and manufactured here thing. Best part, is that it's agreat gun. The FT version is more than entry level by far.


 
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Thanks for the input Saltlake.

I sold my Greg Davis tuned (LW Barrel) M-rod to a FT buddy. He's done some pretty impressive shooting with it. He found out it likes the 13.4 gr monsters as well. I was shooting the 10.3 gr Exacts when I had it. He's shot in the 50's out of 60 possible with it several times.

I haven't shot a match in a couple years. He would probably put me and my Thomas to shame! LOL

I'm keeping the Swedes and Chechs in business as well! But my Thomas is all American ;-)

Fuss

PS, I put that Marauder in the cart and punched in the code. It works, but I canceled it out. Got too many guns already! LOL


 
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That's an interesting recommendation! I hadn't thought of a Challenger. In comparing the two, the big differences I saw were:

Challenger has all the fancy adjustments in the stock for target shooting, It's designed as a 10 meter gun, so only 530 fps. Plenty for short range shooting. If you want to stretch out to 50 or 75 yards, probably need a touch more oomph! It only comes in .177 and is not regulated (that's a biggie to me!) Doesn't say how many shots per fill, but I'd bet quite a few. .177 at 530fps translates into lots and lots of shots. It appears that the Challenger is a single shot as well. Think about that one. I like magazine fed guns.

The Challenger wins on weight as well. 7.3 pounds vs over 8 for the Field and Target. I can only fine the Field and Target in a wood stock, if it came in synthetic, they'd be the same weight.

Marauder is a bit heavier at over 8 pounds but is regulated, has the oomph to reach out to at least 60 or 70 yards. Same trigger and such, so good all the way around. You need to decide if you need the power or if the 10 meter gun (challenger) is right for you. Both are excellent choices!






 
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Yes, that's a great suggestion as well BigTin. Thanks man. I should have remembered that? Dummy me.

I've seen guys tune them for 10 or 12fpe and use them for FT? And believe some went so far as to regulate them?

I remember guys shooting the 1720T pistols in pistol class as well. They are darn accurate with that little LW barrel, could put a butt stock on one and have a sweet little carbine.

Now, all that said, the Challenger and the 1720T with a buttstock would work for me, but we talked on the phone this morning and he definitely wants a magazine fed rifle, so that knocks those two out of the running.

I really appreciate all the advice fellas. You're jogging my memory....what's left of it? LOL

I'm still hoping a Hatsan fan will jump in, because Glenn has found a refurb Hatsan for a killer price, and I don't want to talk him out of it? What the heck, if it's a good price and it does what he wants, then I say go for it. It's all about the fun factor anyway!

Hopefully he will be by here next week and we'll shoot his Gamo break barrel and shoot the Logun and test the waters for the Dark side possibilities!

Thanks guys

Fuss


 
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Dark side?? I think springers are the Dark Side! PCP's are like shining a bright light into the dark room!

Once he shoots the logan, he'll never go back. It's just soooooo much smoother and no recoil makes it wonderful shooting experience!

Do your best to turn him to the light (and then right back to the dark when it empties his wallet)

Have fun out there
 
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