Just an FYI .... newest TAIPAN/s Transfer specs .... Case in point the .177

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Motorhead

Motorhead

Member
Nov 1, 2018
5,397
1
5,087
California, United States
This past winter I received a Veteran Standard in .177 Went about a full re-tune and internals change to optimize the caliber.

That thread can be found here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/taipan-mutant-veteran-no-more-hammer-ping-some-other-tuning-tricks/page/2/?view=all#post-1035865





** Here a few days ago .... RECEIVED a New Veteran Shorty ( Compact ) expecting to find it identical and having the mods above replicated exactly.

The TRANSFER PATH size in this newest VET was a MASSIVE .266" diameter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( This would feed a .25 or .30 no problem )

Valve seat was the strangle point of the system having a throat of only @ .194", tho the transfer path leaving seat a large .250" WHOA WHAT A MISMATCH !!





So for you folks that like to tinker, find improvement solutions etc .... AND HAVE A SMALL CALIBER VETERAN, there is much one can do so your TAIPAN is better calibrated to run more efficiently should you care ?



FY Information only ....

Scott S

Motorheads AG Tuning Services
 
  • Like
Reactions: mmahoney
I still need a standard to go with my .22 long and .25 compact. I was wanting it in .177 and was hoping they would change the transfer path size for the .177 before I was ready for one. Well apparently they did…in the wrong direction. I don’t understand why they don’t reduce it for the smaller caliber. That has to be pretty inefficient like that. 

 
Upvote 0
I still need a standard to go with my .22 long and .25 compact. I was wanting it in .177 and was hoping they would change the transfer path size for the .177 before I was ready for one. Well apparently they did…in the wrong direction. I don’t understand why they don’t reduce it for the smaller caliber. That has to be pretty inefficient like that. 
Click to expand...


Simple manufacturers math .... What caliber do they sell the most of ? What port specs cover the most calibers they make and SELL the gun in ? 

As a .177 the gun is awesome and has within the pellet weights we can access all the power to make the speed that stays accurate. While not that efficient it is a TOOL that only requires AIR .... replacement air is cheap !!



These TAIPAN pups are So Well Made I honestly can overlook the over porting issues being there easily correctable W/O altering a thing that is not easily reversible. 
 
Upvote 0
I still need a standard to go with my .22 long and .25 compact. I was wanting it in .177 and was hoping they would change the transfer path size for the .177 before I was ready for one. Well apparently they did…in the wrong direction. I don’t understand why they don’t reduce it for the smaller caliber. That has to be pretty inefficient like that. 
Click to expand...


Simple manufacturers math .... What caliber do they sell the most of ? What port specs cover the most calibers they make and SELL the gun in ? 

As a .177 the gun is awesome and has within the pellet weights we can access all the power to make the speed that stays accurate. While not that efficient it is a TOOL that only requires AIR .... replacement air is cheap !!



These TAIPAN pups are So Well Made I honestly can overlook the over porting issues being there easily correctable W/O altering a thing that is not easily reversible.
Click to expand...

Scott, in light of the new porting... If one were to acquire a .177 Veteran Long, do you think the factory plenum is large enough for it to be tuned to push 12.5 grain NSA slugs in the 975-1000fps range? Or would one want one of the power plenums?
 
Upvote 0
JMO ... plenum is likely fine. Issue is going to be more of HAMMER WEIGHT and getting sufficient valve dwell to drive an otherwise draggier slug to speed before running out of barrel.

As we know TAIPANS are Very Short Dwell cycle guns. This is why there generally so efficient, have low muzzle report and fire with a quick SNAP !



Beyond that I would seek & reference the past R&D done by Mtnghost using a custom hammer of more weight.

.177 caliber due to it's LOW area for pressure to work against, will require HIGHER PRESSURE and that makes the valve even harder to open !!!

* This could be an EYE OPENING moment if we look at DAYSTATE REDWOLFS and why they can make the power they do ? ..... There NOT Regulated !!

and have the TANKS FULL PRESSURE available to launch heavier or draggier projectiles to very high speeds when adjusted in hammer strike energy and dwell too do so.



I'm done rambling ....
 
  • Like
Reactions: JaceSpace1369
Upvote 0
JMO ... plenum is likely fine. Issue is going to be more of HAMMER WEIGHT and getting sufficient valve dwell to drive an otherwise draggier slug to speed before running out of barrel.

As we know TAIPANS are Very Short Dwell cycle guns. This is why there generally so efficient, have low muzzle report and fire with a quick SNAP !



Beyond that I would seek & reference the past R&D done by Mtnghost using a custom hammer of more weight.

.177 caliber due to it's LOW area for pressure to work against, will require HIGHER PRESSURE and that makes the valve even harder to open !!!

* This could be an EYE OPENING moment if we look at DAYSTATE REDWOLFS and why they can make the power they do ? ..... There NOT Regulated !!

and have the TANKS FULL PRESSURE available to launch heavier or draggier projectiles to very high speeds when adjusted in hammer strike energy and dwell too do so.



I'm done rambling ....
Click to expand...

If you don't mind me bothering you again. I understand the need for more push to get a .177 slug going. My question is why the push needs to be higher pressure (high pressure, shorter dwell) and can't be higher volume of air (lower pressure, more plenum, longer dwell). Is it simply a matter of running out of barrel? Just thinking lower pressure would allow the light hammer to get a longer dwell time. 
 
Upvote 0
The problem is made worse as you go down in caliber, because the pressure has a smaller surface area to push against. Think of it as pounds per square inch, literally. The smaller the surface the air has to push against, then the less force is applied to move the projectile. If you take the same gun will all settings being equal, other than the barrels(all ported to caliber size), then it really becomes obvious. For example, my Maverick(tuned) it will top out a little over 50 fpe with a 24 grain .177 slug. Swap over to the .22 with identical settings and 24 grain .218 slug, it will top out over 70 fpe. I don't know the exact number, because it will push a 24 grain .218 supersonic very easily. Yes, the .22 barrel is about 2" longer, but that's not enough to make 20+ fpe difference. I hope that helps explain it a little better :) 
 
Upvote 0
The problem is made worse as you go down in caliber, because the pressure has a smaller surface area to push against. Think of it as pounds per square inch, literally. The smaller the surface the air has to push against, then the less force is applied to move the projectile. If you take the same gun will all settings being equal, other than the barrels(all ported to caliber size), then it really becomes obvious. For example, my Maverick(tuned) it will top out a little over 50 fpe with a 24 grain .177 slug. Swap over to the .22 with identical settings and 24 grain .218 slug, it will top out over 70 fpe. I don't know the exact number, because it will push a 24 grain .218 supersonic very easily. Yes, the .22 barrel is about 2" longer, but that's not enough to make 20+ fpe difference. I hope that helps explain it a little better :)
Click to expand...

100% true. It's all about volumetric high pressure. I would even argue that something as small as a +/- .005" variation can make a measurable difference in power output (think .217 vs. .222 groove bbls).

As Motorhead points out, Longer dwell / bigger pressurized plenum "chambers" are only useful for maximizing the pressure through the transfer passages and barrel behind the projectile. You can scale up velocity with higher pressure, but there's a point where additional plenum volume doesn't provide any benefits for a given regulator set point - thus, the main reason why you have to rely on higher pressures and quicker, snappier hammer energy to scale up pressure with shorter bbls.


 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu