JSB LOT NUMBERS

Forums General Discussion JSB LOT NUMBERS

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    Spray1Mark
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    I have a strange feeling that users of this forum are saying that JSB pellets don't have batch number labels on the tins in the USA?

    Have I just drunk too much Bud and Jack Daniels or is there an element of truth to this?

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    JCD
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    True…. At least for those tins purchased through what is probably the highest volume retailer…

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    addertooth
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    A lot of people have scales and pellet gauges. I find the diameter of the JSB pellets are very consistent, the weight is less so.

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    Spray1Mark
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    Thats terrible! those of us in Europe know that the die number is the most important information on a JSB label, why on earth would a retailer remove his information?

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    AirNGasman
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    Simple answer, Spray… dollars and sense! 

    Having been a businessman for 40 years I can tell you that pursuing prestige markets can get you bankrupt in a hurry; as in zero return for far too much investment. An idealistic businessman can easily become an out-of-business man! 

    To put it another way, the type of shooter that demands lot-numbered pellets is too demanding for the return, unless he's willing to pay the extra $$$ it's worth to serve him. This is not pessimism, it's reality. Were I in the airgun ammo business, I'd happily concede the lot-numbered pellet market to my competitors.  

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    Spray1Mark
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    Sorry but I disagree, most here will buy numerous tins of pellets from different lots and test them, then look for a batch number. I suspect more lead goes downrange as "test" pellets than anything else.

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    addertooth
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    Spray1Mark,

    I tend to trust my measurements more than a batch number.  Everyone has a bad or inconsistent day, including those on the pellet production line.  

      Addertooth

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    Saltlake58
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    While at the Utah Airguns opening, I noticed that while the tins don't have labels, I believe the boxes that the tins came in did have the requisite information.  But, since the major vendors in the US ship only the tins, we don't get the information.

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    Arzrover
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    On top of all that,  the pellets within a batch can be horribly inconsistent.  In recent testing , 2 consecutive tins from the same sleeve /batch were dramatically different in damage to the pellets and weight and size variance. This was Jsb Kings but I've seen 22 cal pellets in King Heavy tins and Kings in King Heavy tins as well. Makes it difficult to accuracy test without weighing and siize sorting . I've seen the same in Crosman Premiers in the past as well. 

    I've only seen tins labeled with lot numbers so far though.  Most of mine come from AOA if that matters. 

    Bob 

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    Spray1Mark
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    addertooth

    Spray1Mark,

    I tend to trust my measurements more than a batch number.  Everyone has a bad or inconsistent day, including those on the pellet production line.  

      Addertooth

    That is if you can directly relate to a specific measurement why a particular pellet performs well in a particular gun (not including weight).

    The starting point must be the info on the tin, JSB numbering contains the batch, die number, operator, QC technician and year of production.

    It is fairly easy to say that your gun like pellets from a particular die and form a pattern from that.

    Secondly and more importantly how do you know that if you buy 10 tins they arent from 3 different dies and 2 different years etc.

    Sorry to say it but you are being duped!

     

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    LDP
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    Spray1Mark

    Thats terrible! those of us in Europe know that the die number is the most important information on a JSB label, why on earth would a retailer remove his information?

    I dont think they remove that info. I dont think the labels were ever put on the individual tins but could be on the bulk boxes they are imported in. I have JSB pellets and AA pellets which we know are made in the same facility, my JSB pellets dont have the info tag on them but my AA pellets do. I bought both from the same vendor. Another thing to think about thats different here in the US than the UK is that a very large percentage of the US airgun shooters dont have a store they can walk into and buy JSB, AA, H&N or any pellets that come from other countries. I dont think most of the online retailers will take the time to dig thru the inventory to hand select pellets based on lot, die or year numbers. I have never asked Pyramid air or Airguns of Arizona to look for specific batches of pellets so I dont know if they do but it seems like that could be a very large time consuming process if they get allot of pellet orders. Plus if they dont have enough or any of the batch asked for they would have to contact the person back and ask them what they wanted. I dont see them taking that much time.

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    AirNGasman
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    "I have never asked Pyramid air or Airguns of Arizona to look for specific batches of pellets so I dont know if they do but it seems like that could be a very large time consuming process if they get allot of pellet orders. Plus if they dont have enough or any of the batch asked for they would have to contact the person back and ask them what they wanted. I dont see them taking that much time."

    Thanks LDP. That's exactly what I was getting at in my post above; that it is counter-productive to efficiency and, consequently, profitability to serve the lot-numbered pellet market. 

    No agitation intended in my observations Spray; simply reality.   

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    Pelletgage
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Mods – this discussion might be better in the pellets and projectiles forum.

    To answer, yes – there are many JSB tins being sold without the lot tracking labels that are applied at the factory. As to why, my guess is that some dealers want to avoid having returns if the size variance is shown on the label. But they might simply reply that they don't want to have a labelled nominal specification on tins that is not being met anyway.

    Pellet manufacturers have long sold pellets with head sizes to 0.01 mm (0.0004 in). I have never seen any claimed tolerance, though – without which, you have little idea of the true sizes to be found in a tin. In my experience in electronics hardware manufacturing, we should expect a tolerance of at least +/- 0.005 mm (+/- 0.0002"). In my experience, meeting this tolerance is quite rare. I assert that what we may really expect is that the actual mean size is +/- 0.01 mm from nominal, with a range of +/- 0.01 mm. A tin of 4.52 mm pellets can be expected to have a mean size from 4.51 to 4.53 and the tolerance from that mean is about 0.01. My observation is that a significant percentage of tins don't meet these loose criteria.

    I wish some manufacturer would step up and give us a real head size specification, with a confidence limit. I don't expect that to happen.

    And of course, the head size is not the only factor here. Go over to the Pellet and Projectile forum, and note that there are obvious differences being seen in the back of the pellet. This recess shape is a result of the punch that pushes the slug into the swage die. Changes in this can be expected to affect the ballistics, and certainly has an effect on how far guns with bolts push the pellet into the leade. 

    But as Spray1Mark stated, in a sober state, we might simply expect that the labels that provide lot traceability would be left there for quality control reasons.

    Perhaps what may be coming is that the manufacturers will simply call all the pellets 4.5 mm and drop that last digit, letting us buy enough tins to find one we like. Sigh.

     

     

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    nomojo65
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    Pelletgage your right on the MONEY!, jsb has a good Reputation… but they also know we will keep buying pellets ( to find that majic or correct size we desire or need for accuracy which changes from gun to gun, barrel to barrel! ) Now if I had the time,$$$,knowledge to produce my own pellets I most certainly would…! But JSB  could do a better job of checking die & punch wear, sorting & packing Criteria etc. just my meager thoughts!

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    Sell682
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    I agree with most comments and of course it’s not a cost effective practice. However I’m sure the amount of people asking for specific lots or pellets is not high. 

    What I am most concerned about is the tracking of sold pellet tins in the event there is a bad batch. If you get a tin of pellets of all different sizes how do you define what batch they are a part of ?

     

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    AirNGasman
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    FWIW, lot numbered pellets is a realistic wish. However, weight and/or head-size consistency enough to satisfy serious competitors is probably a bridge too far to hope for from pellet manufacturers. That being the case, endless hours of sorting pellets helps keep you guys out of trouble!

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    FPoole
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    JCD

    True…. At least for those tins purchased through what is probably the highest volume retailer…

    I think the little sticker with the info is covered by the large sticker that one supplier uses. I've peeled off a few of the large stickers and could see the little square sticker from JSB, but it was destroyed in the process.

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    DirtyDovi
    Participant
    Member

    A few months ago,  I ordered two 500 count tins of JSB Exact Heavy 18.13gr .22 cal pellets.
    The first tin was nice.  Almost all of the pellets looked usable, and shot really well..
    Unfortunately,  I can't say the same for the second tin.  When I opened that one, 
    I was really surprised at how many bent and deformed skirts there were..
    Within less than a minute,  I had picked out almost 10 pellets that had to be scrapped..
    After that,  I just gave up..
    Having a bit more info, like batch / lot numbers on the tins would probably be really helpful.

    Sam –

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    1BadDart
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      Every tin of JSB Match pellets I've bought have had a sticker with the lot number and head size on them. I also bought a sleeve/box of JSB RS 7.33's that had the sticker on the box but none on the tins.

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    MrBtoYou
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    Member

    Wow that’s crazy there’s no way I would buy a tin of jsb pellets with out marking sure its the right ones I will flip every tin over In my local RFD to make sure I get the right ones if I don’t bulk buy,  Seems crazy they won’t get the info up to are fiends on the other side of the pond 

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