Is it hard for anyone else to kill squirrels with .22 calibre?

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sharroff, That squirrel head for the gamo ,was made for a target at the Nationals, that was positioned in a hole in a log standing on end, It had to be visible through the hole. That is why it is off from where you would aim on a real squirrel. It was requested by the organizers but with out any dimensions so when it was set up it was still too large to fit. So the head was used out in the woods instead.
 
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"sharroff"For those that do not think the pellet type makes a big difference on a squirrel or other small game like rabbits and rats, pull up a chair and sit a while - I want to show you something.


I just took 4 different pellets and fired them from my 40 fpe .22 into layers of soaked compressed car towels covered with water in a 5 gallon bucket. It works similar to shooting into a cheap roast from your butcher, but is a lot cleaner and the towels can be washed, dried, and put back in the shooting closet, and reused over and over. - Don't try that with the butchers cheap roast.

And for you who are about to say 'Well that's not Ballistic Gelatin and it's not covered with X layer of denim!" Well, we aren't shooting at people - we're shooting at squirrels .


If someone doesn't believe me, well hey, Paypal me and I'd be happy to go to the butcher, get a roast, and shoot it up with .22s and post the pics here for everyone to see. Include return shipping, and I'll even send you back the used roast as a souvenir if you like.


The bottom row is what the pellet looked like originally and the top row is what it looked like after.


Check out the JSB 18.13 (1st pellet on left)- I could probably put it back into the gun and fire it again. It went though 6 inches medium and lodged in the bottom of the bucket. No way when shooting from a high (40 fpe) 22 that's not going to over penetrate on a squirrel and exit. Well, unless you shoot him in the rump with plans of it travelling the rest of the way through him though the heart/lungs to the brain (which it probably would). I would not want to clean that squirrel though. Overall from a head or heart/lung side shot, I don't think it's going to deliver as much energy as the other pellets. Second, I hope you aren't shooting tree rats in your neighborhood with this pellet as chances are it''s on its way to it's next backstop after it finishes it's visit with Mr. Squirrel. Yes, if you put it in the right spot (brain, heart, lungs) it's going to do it's job. No question. But compare that to your other .22 pellet choices below. The JSB expanded from .22 to .224. Pellet length went from .303 to .285 Great accuracy round, no doubt. Pellet on pellet hits with these in my gun. But as a damage inflicting hunting round? Yawn.

Next is the Crossman Premier Hollow point 14.13 (2nd from left). At least it shows signs of opening up, but again, it hasn't expanded or deformed alot. It lodged 5 inches into the medium so it delivered more energy than the JSB (if we were shooting squirrels and not a bucket of towels). You can really see how well it engaged the rifling in my barrel. No wonder it shoots so straight. It expanded from .22 to .224. Pellet length went from .259 to .251 Hunting round? Yawn.

Third from Left is H&N Terminator 16.36g. Lot's of pellet change which means energy being absorbed by our not so happy squirrel. They have a special metal in the middle that does not deform, and apparently forces the lead around it to expand. It made it about 3 inches into the medium. Sorry, no rifling marks left to show! It expanded from a .22 to a .27 round while doing it's job. Hey .22 guys, look!! You can actually do a .25 and better hole! Pellet length went from .317 to .296.

On the right is what I use on squirrels, a H&N Hunter Extreme 19.09g. Look at how that pellet expands!! The pellet has completely petaled out around the hard center. This only made it about an inch into the medium. This sometimes even stays in squirrel heads after the shot. That's delivering almost all the pellets energy while expanding from a .22 round into a .39 by .39 square. Pellet length went from .295 to to .187. Talk about getting smashed! That is a classic picture of how a powder burner should look!





And here is a 45 degree view




And here is a view from the bottom.




Yes, first you have to be accurate, and your gun has to be able to shoot the pellet accurately - BUT THEN - choosing the right pellet can make a lot of difference on the result. Your mileage may vary based on your guns FPE.

Final question, after seeing the above, if you were a friendly neighborly tree rat that was about to have an unexpected encounter with a .incoming .22 pellet, which would you least like to have hit you?

Can I have a +1 accuracy for my squirrel pellet review? :)





Click to expand...
I see you put time into this experiment but my real world experience shows different results. My post on the second page has a .25 JSB shot @ 44 fpe into the head of a rock chuck that reacted totally different than the JSB in your test into towels. Granted its a .25 not .22 but it started out with just 4 fpe more than the .22 did. the rock chuck was also 79 yds away so it impacted with less energy than the .22 JSB did into the towels but has much more deformation. It also penetrated allot less than 6" but you could argue that being larger diameter and impacting at less power might have something to do with its penetration.

I am not discounting your experiment but thats just what it is. There is no replacement for actual field work to see what really happens when a projectile impacts living flesh, muscle and bone at varying degrees of angle and distance. If you really want to know how a pellet is going to look then dissect every kill you make that has a pellet stuck inside the animal and see what happens.

I am also not arguing against the fact that a hollow point should expand more than a round nose. But there is enough info that shows pellet velocities dont cause reliable expansion with hollow points. Some mushroom violently and some hardly look like they have been shot. Again the exact path of the pellet and impact velocity makes a huge difference in what happens to all pellets and if they expand or just pass thru.

I use a cardboard box with layers of cardboard inside as an indoor trap at work. I have shot JSB, AA, H&N hunter extremes, predator polly mags and crosman hollow points into it using 10 fpe up to 45 fpe at 17 yds. Every type of pellet and power produces mild deformation to full on smashed in that box. I get varying differences on live animals with all my pellet and rifle combos in the same power range I just listed. So the one thing I know is that there is no consistency in what happens on a live animal because of all the variables. So I shoot the most accurate pellet and I get excellent results.

I also agree that if you are shooting around structures and or neighbors you need to do what it takes to not have over penetration that could be dangerous. Some of the types of pellets mentioned do exhibit lower penetration qualities but not always due to extreme deformation. Out of my BSA S10 @ 11 fpe the H&N hunter extremes were one of the pellets that penetrated the box the least but also showed almost no deformation signs. Go figure. I have no answer as to why they did what they did.

this summer I will dissect as many animals as I can and document shot angle, distance and pictures of the pellet after removal I will also have video footage of each shot. It will be interesting to see how pellets react after hitting live animals and how consistent the performance is over a dozen shots on different animals and positions. That should be a fun project.
 
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LDP the main difference I see in the 25 cal. pellet you show is it was shot into skull/bone not flesh. That would make a big difference in expansion. Like you and everyone said there are so many variables to real life hunting like size of the animal, range and fpe that it is hard to predict pellet performance. I know for example I can't always take head shots on grey squirrels and therefore like to use hp's for body shots. I know they will at least cut a nice wound channel through the critter. I have shot enough squirrels in the past to know dome pellets will pencil on through a squirrel with a chest shot and not kill quickly. We all have different hunting methods and game targets and it is good to have all types of insights for our sport. When this topic of pellet expansion came up I started looking on youtube for videos. Here is one I found with some interesting results too
. 
 
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Airgun Bill you are correct. A skull shot is going to cause a different reaction on the pellet. I have seen a difference in body shots using Hp pellets or other "expanding" pellets that showed in the reaction of the animal. But they have not always expanded and I think even if the HP doesnt expand the flatter face transmits the energy differently than a domed pellet. I have seen this shooting birds and birds are so lightly built the HP doesnt open up but like a wadcutter has that large flat profile compared to the sleeker dome and I believe transfer the energy better. The biggest problem with HP pellets is most rifles dont shoot them accurately to any distance so they do get pushed to the side. I had a Talon SS in .22 that shot the crow mags at 775 fps and was deadly accurate allowing headshots on ground squirrels out to 40 yds. The crow mags definitely thumped those ground squirrels and you could hear the difference in the impact. I wasnt arguing against HP just saying I have seen domed pellets deform as much as other types in certain situations. I was a bit long winded and kinda rambled lol.
 
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Nope not at all. I've killed thousands of ground squirrels with not only my .22 cal. Hw100/STB but with my springers and bow. Just got to hit them in the right place.

They are tough critters with a strong will to survive. I once "pinned" one to a fence post with an arrow. The animal just did flips while trying to escape, a boot heal ended the event. At the time I was producing 76 ft-lbs of energy with that bow but made a non-lethal body shot.
 
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Strikefast,

Thanks for the clarification and yea, that makes sense now that I have the background. Just didnt want the original poster to think that was the optimal aimpoint. There would be alot of squirrels running around with broken jaws.

LDP,

Understood. I did have a disclaimer 'your mileage may vary based on FPE'. I think what you call a rockchuck we call a woodchuck. In Ohio those are much larger than squirrels with much bigger heads and tougher muscle/bone than the squirrels this thread was started on. I'd probably be using an JSB Exact on one of those too, but I've never tried with an air rifle. I typically go after those with my .222 or .223 powder burners. I'm not sure at 80-100 yards a 40 fpe 18 grain .22 would do the job. I suppose I could give it a try though.

My point on expansion was if an 18.13g JSB exact .22 didn't expand when shot at less than 5 yards into medium from a 40fpe rifle, there is no way it was going to expand into a squirrel at 50-100 yards. 

Airgun Bill, thanks for the video! It confirms what I was saying on over penetration though I'd like to see what happens at 50 and 75 yards vs point blank.

 
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Sharroff the real name of a rock chuck is yellow bellied marmot. They are very close to wood chucks but slightly smaller on average. I am glad everyone was able to add their experience without it turning into a big argument. Unfortunately topics like this one end up that way frequently. No body is wrong in this topic either and it looks like we all feel the same about how pellets perform and what to expect most of the time. No two shots are the same and thats the reason I want to try and get some more info this summer by examining more of my pellets and also more types of pellets. 
 
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I have hunted many fox squirrels and red squirrels here in Ohio with .25 Marauder.Let me just say first off that the Fox squirrel is much tougher for me to dispatch cleanly with one shot regardless of distance,than smaller red squirrels.I try to put the pellet right down the ear hole if possible.If not hit just in right spot of brain,these tough creatures will run off and can still climb a tree.To be honest,i find coons and opossums easier to dispatch than fox squirrels.I actually would like to step up a caliber for Fox squirrels.This is just my 2 cents.Cheers.
 
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Roger that, ajshoots! I use an FX Impact .30 set on MAX with a Hawke Sidewinder IR 4-16x 50, and I still find nailing squirrels extremely challenging. Those 'lil suckers are either constantly twitchin' around, or they stand stock still to where I don't even know they're there! Plus, a squirrel sighting is rare down here on the border (CA & TJ) with all the scrub desert. But, I really get a sense of satisfaction when I finally smack one!
 
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I was out hunting pigs with a buddy when behold we see a squirrel. I have my .22 springer, but I was not comfortable taking that particular shot. So he shoots this squirrel, hit him at the base of the head, just behind the ear. With a Hornandy Red Tip .17 HMR. Took out the whole back of the head, spine at the neck, and part of upper shoulders. Do you know that thing jumped up and down like for 10 seconds!!!! 
 
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Well, with bad L2 and hips, I haven't been able to get out hunting in 10 years plus. got new left hip 2 weeks ago this Monday. Home therapy for muscles and such I haven't been able to use much in that decade of pain, etc. sitting in a chair. So, anyway, I'm walking a lot better with a walker at present, working for 6 months to a year before I can even try to get out hunting and fishing again.
​During this time, since last August, I've been buying new air rifles, restoring an old one, collecting up tools, pellets, range bags, etc and testing with chronograph and shooting now and then at new local indoor range. Getting ready as it were. Which also gives me time to think, research, ask questions and the like. Trying to find what pellet I think will dump most or all of its FPE at POI. At the moment, I'm thinking the Beeman Silver Bear High shock hollow point. 7.1gr in .177, 12.65gr in .22 cal. The .22 cal Silver Bear weighs the same as the H&N Baracuda Green. I think, by the looks of the Beeman Silver Bear, that it would have more shocking power than the Baracuda Green, or similar pellet?
H&N Baracuda Green (left);
IMG_0173.jpg

Beeman Silver Bear;
22pelts.jpg

 
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Union- I think the better .22cal choice would be a simple Diablo dome, soft lead with some weight to it, enter gold standard JSB 18gr. The SilverBear is only 12 gr, pretty light. The extra weight (provided you are dealing with PCP) really increases energy. The softer lead deforms upon bone impact. Just my take using 32fpe rifle.

I have used 18.13gr JSB on possum, known to have thicker skulls than other critters. It is lights out in seconds. A 21gr H&N Baracuda aslo does a number on whatever it hits, a harder lead. I find a dome shape is quite effective and carries well down range. I have not tried 15gr yet in hunting.

I do have H&N Hornet tipped pellets. Not sure what I will 'test' them on. No need really for extra penetration but who knows.
 
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Don't feel bad as those nutters sure are hard to kill! I have a .30 impact and have taken head shots, shoulder shots, chest shots you name it and still they manage to hang on some how. I even shot a nutter with a Glock27 (.40cal) using Winchester hollow points, blew the nutters whole mid section out and the damn thing still managed to scurry off up a tee before dying. I couldn't believe it with my own 2 eyes the poor things intestines were hanging out seemed like 10 feet long. So yeah tough little ****ers
 
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