Is a High-Power Sub-MOA Bigbore Even Possible? (Video)

Forums Big Bore Airguns Is a High-Power Sub-MOA Bigbore Even Possible? (Video)

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    davidsng
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    Bullfrog

    What’s the threshold for the guns we’re talking about in terms of caliber and fpe?

    .308 or larger.  .257 if over approx. 150 fpe .

    With Bigbore it is okay to be tethered.

    5 shot group minimum.

    Everyone agree?

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by davidsng.
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    davidsng
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    Imold

    I have not done a 100 yard zero yet with my .357 but did do a 60 yard zero. Have a 100 yard zero with my .30 but doing it 100 % of the time might be a bit more challenging outside and I don’t have enough trigger time on my .45 yet being I like my other calibers better at this time.

    Great shooting!

    Bullfrog

    What’s the threshold for the guns we’re talking about in terms of caliber and fpe?

    .308 or larger.  .257 if over approx. 150 for.

    With Bigbore it is okay to be tethered.

    5 shot group minimum.

    Everyone agree?

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    STO
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    https://www.drummencustomguns.com/en/28_dz-sinner

    Word is these guns are easily sub MOA. Never seen one in person though. 5 rounds, 100 yards, tethered sounds good to me….. not that I get to decide anything. :) 

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    davidsng
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    Holy crap those guns are expensive! For that price, they should be half MOA at 100!

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    blackdiesel
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    STO

    blackdiesel

    How about a 5 shot @ 170 yards MOA?  The whole 10 shot group is something Ted came up with.  IMO this doesn't test the gun but the shooter's concentration.  3 or even 5 shots will do.  If 3 shots good enough for military and law enforcement it's good enough for me.

    A nitpick I know, but an important one: Ted Bier didn't invent the ten shot group, it has been used by shooters as a standard for a long long time. I suspect Ted uses the ten shot group because he is a scientist, and understands the statistics behind it. Long story short, when testing the capability of a gun, 10 shot groups are better….. it is a math thing. Even if you're just looking for a quick and dirty zero, 3 shots doesn't really cut it.

    Rather than diving into the technical side, I'd suggest a simple experiment. Put up a target with ten bulls on it. Shoot a three shot group holding for dead center on each. Now look at your target. Each of the three will, aside from a few fliers, tend to cluster so each will look like a reasonable group. Target to target though, these clusters will be all over the place. If you overlayed them, they wouldn't all line up in the same spot but instead would generate a much larger group than you'd have thought given the size of each group of three. That matters for two reasons. First, the goal of paper punching like this, aside from honing your skills, is to generate an understanding of the true angular MOA capability of your rifle. Shots will land in a standard distribution, and that is important and leads to the second reason: you want your crosshairs to be set for the center of that standard distribution, that is to say the area with the highest density of probable impacts. 

    I hope that makes sense. 

    Of course I meant that Ted started the trend of 10 shot groups to evaluate airgun performance.  

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    Bullfrog
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    I'll take this Pepsi challenge. I'll have to video it, because otherwise you won't believe my results. Not with my .30 Flexes, but with…. wait for it… my .308 Texan SS I just got in this evening. 

    The gun is a LASER with pellets at obnoxiously high power levels. Power levels way higher than any pellet should be shooting well. I cast 59 grain pellets of Bob Sterne's design and this gun shoots them fantastic for what they are (I don't think my casting is all that great and all I'm using is random tire weight lead cut with some more pure lead). But it LOVES 45 grain JSBs and Polymags. I'm chronying the 59 grain pellets in the 1030s and 1040s at half power on the wheel from a 3000psi fill. Don't know what the light pellets are doing in terms of FPS, but they're fiercely breaking the sound barrier. And they stack. And I do mean STACK. Just as good as my 2 Flexes do, which are my benchmark guns for accuracy. I shot out to 40 yards on paper and 50 yards on a 1 inch spinner. Paper was hole in hole. I couldn't miss the spinner. 

    I'm so stoked. I was hoping this gun could be an accurate pellet shooter based on a couple of retailer reviews I read, but I was thinking 1 inch at 50 yards would be pie in the sky for pellets. Now my expectations are that 50 yards, I may see cloverleaf or even 1 hole groups. 

    This is the gun I'll be hunting with this weekend. Although airgun season doesn't start for another weekend, I have depredation tags that let me use whatever. I'm going to use one this weekend I think to test this gun out. Maybe have the first airgun kill on video in Florida. 

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Bullfrog.
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    2511bless
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     Hey my fellow Floridians I was wondering how loud is the 308SS also what does your shot count looks like. I had to 45 SS not really that bad It’s also a laser.

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    Nathaniel
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    Hi David,

    As far as the Ataman is concerned, I used to do 7 shot groups (size of the mag). I just found it easy and it made sense to me.

    I definitely could get insane groups at 100 meters with the polymags (so much better in this carabine than the jsb's) and the right hold. The carabine version was very hold sensitive. Too tight or too lose and you were immediately punished.

    My best group with the Ataman:

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    davidsng
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    Wow! That is great. I got my Ataman in to a shop to get tuned, barrel polished, trigger adjusted, and re-crowned. It should get me some impressive results after that.  Just got a better scope also.  They will be increasing power also.  I'll be posting results here sometime in the next few weeks. 

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    batman
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    Good enough for the military? Anyone ever heard of "good enough for government work"? One vote for 10 if possible. 5 is ok.

    FYI- AAA 357 Slayer can do 1 or sub MOA if you do your part. Note there is a difference between slugs and pellets. Unfortunately, I just sold it.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by batman.
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    davidsng
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    batman

    Good enough for the military? Anyone ever heard of "good enough for government work"? One vote for 10 if possible. 5 is ok.

    FYI- AAA 357 Slayer can do 1 or sub MOA if you do your part. Note there is a difference between slugs and pellets. Unfortunately, I just sold it.

     

    Yea, Slayer is the first one that comes to mind to me too.  It is only made for slugs.  Pellets are my ammo of choice.

     

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    Nutcracker
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    blackdiesel

    How about a 5 shot @ 170 yards MOA?  The whole 10 shot group is something Ted came up with.  IMO this doesn't test the gun but the shooter's concentration.  3 or even 5 shots will do.  If 3 shots good enough for military and law enforcement it's good enough for me.

     

     

    For a big bore that is awesome.  I have owned the Quackenbush Bandit .50 years ago & now own a .457 Extreme.  I never tried past a hundred yards.  

     

     

     

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