Interesting idea, one thing that would throw the findings off besides atmospheric conditions woul be a scope that was not perfectly centered in the rings.
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Indexing Barrel liners in FX Impact - FX Wildcat
- Thread starter PaniSd
- Start date
Let me update what I was saying. I am assuming that one might be using a range finding reticle when shooting at different distances rather than using the center crosshairs at all distances shot.
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If you are looking for more vertical adjustment from your scope and groups are equal at 12 & 6 o’clock.
Setting the liner at 6 o’clock will give you greater vertical adjustment. If you don’t have adjustable rings this could be an advantage for some people.
Setting the liner at 6 o’clock will give you greater vertical adjustment. If you don’t have adjustable rings this could be an advantage for some people.
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I tried this as well.
First of all it almost took an act of congress to get the liner out. It was in there so tight I though I'd never get it out without damaging something.
Got it out and lubed the breech end with silicone.
OK, marked it in it's original factory position at 12 o clock position. Shot targets at 40 yards into a 10 mph wind....not ideal, I know. Shot targets at 3 o clock, 6 o clock and 9 o clock.
I have included pictures. But conclusion is it came pretty close from the factory. I tweeked it just a smidge off 12 o clock to maybe 12:15 and hit the cross on the target dead center. 12:00 was too far right, 12:30 was too far left but 12:10-12:15 was on the nose. 12:30 would be a few degrees towards the 3 o clock position...just to be straight
Windage on scope was set to zero. Elevation has been set with no limit rings. Scope is at optical center or very close.
Note: each set of shots were from shooting squarely at the red bull so 6 and 9 o clock landed 3-4 inches high and left and right of the red square. The 3 o clock landed 3.5" high and left of the red dot. 3 o clock ws lower than 6 or 9.
More testing further out on a calm day but leaving it there for now
KP/NC
First of all it almost took an act of congress to get the liner out. It was in there so tight I though I'd never get it out without damaging something.
Got it out and lubed the breech end with silicone.
OK, marked it in it's original factory position at 12 o clock position. Shot targets at 40 yards into a 10 mph wind....not ideal, I know. Shot targets at 3 o clock, 6 o clock and 9 o clock.
I have included pictures. But conclusion is it came pretty close from the factory. I tweeked it just a smidge off 12 o clock to maybe 12:15 and hit the cross on the target dead center. 12:00 was too far right, 12:30 was too far left but 12:10-12:15 was on the nose. 12:30 would be a few degrees towards the 3 o clock position...just to be straight
Windage on scope was set to zero. Elevation has been set with no limit rings. Scope is at optical center or very close.
Note: each set of shots were from shooting squarely at the red bull so 6 and 9 o clock landed 3-4 inches high and left and right of the red square. The 3 o clock landed 3.5" high and left of the red dot. 3 o clock ws lower than 6 or 9.
More testing further out on a calm day but leaving it there for now
KP/NC
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PaniSD, Thank you very much for your clear and informative video with excellent explanation. That will go into the "Superior videos library". My exclusive collection. Bill
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+1 Accuracy @PaniSD. Are you indexing the barrel liner with the orings on the liner? or have you removed the orings?
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I have never needed to remove the liner on my Impact X
Can accuracy really improve so much?
Can accuracy really improve so much?
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Follow me here: I think that the scope needs to be taken out of the barrel tuning equation. The action/gun should be mounted on a heavy vice on a solid bench so the gun can't move. Then groups shot at the different positions around the clock. That way you can see where the barrel likes to be for the tightest group at each relative position. Once you know where your tightest group is, rotate the barrel back to that position, shoot another group to verify, and then move the scope crosshairs to the group.
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What do you do when all your groups are basically the same, just shifting up and to the right. I was seeking the highest POI that might reflect a good vertical liner position and hopefully eliminate some left or right down range drift. I didn't have it clamped down in a vise either (would be interesting) but I felt pretty good about my groups for 60yds anyway. I guess the process could always be improved upon.
JK
JK
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Thank you all for interesting thots and findings. As already we have some people testing same as I do, I feel that my efforts ware useful for some people.
I was testing another barrel liner and it was the same, needed to be indexed at proper position to gain accuracy. I have made again some small shorter video with some pics showing what I have done and results on 75 and 100m that I will post later on.
As I have been in position to test 4 different barrels in .22 and .25 and with all of them same issue has been noticed, now I believe more than before that all liners has to be indexed proper way.
I would like that someone post his test and showing us that he rotated the liner and the groups didn’t move … that would be then something special to discuss.
So far, Im good with what I have done and especially that other people have notice the same.
Will keep on working on this subject …
I was testing another barrel liner and it was the same, needed to be indexed at proper position to gain accuracy. I have made again some small shorter video with some pics showing what I have done and results on 75 and 100m that I will post later on.
As I have been in position to test 4 different barrels in .22 and .25 and with all of them same issue has been noticed, now I believe more than before that all liners has to be indexed proper way.
I would like that someone post his test and showing us that he rotated the liner and the groups didn’t move … that would be then something special to discuss.
So far, Im good with what I have done and especially that other people have notice the same.
Will keep on working on this subject …
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Good that you mention this .. I have done with and without O rings on, and bro ... it does make huge difference. Looks like O rings have more influence on barrel than just harmonics.
For example last year I done test with O rings on … then take out barrel remove O rings put it back ( not the same mark as with O rings ) and shoot, I missed complete target ( A4 paper format) to the right at 50m. ??? With O rings it was shooting in center on 50m … without I missed target a lot … try to windage but I used all clicks and cudnt get it back … so I need to rotate barrel to get it in some high position to see shots on my paper and after that try to fine tune.
This happened with my FX Wildcat MK2 .25 that was send to me dirctly by Johan Axelsson … after I index the barrel … WC is so precise that is one of the best I’w seen ( I keep the O rings on).
this is how did look like without O rings and you can see barrel position is diferent.
For example last year I done test with O rings on … then take out barrel remove O rings put it back ( not the same mark as with O rings ) and shoot, I missed complete target ( A4 paper format) to the right at 50m. ??? With O rings it was shooting in center on 50m … without I missed target a lot … try to windage but I used all clicks and cudnt get it back … so I need to rotate barrel to get it in some high position to see shots on my paper and after that try to fine tune.
This happened with my FX Wildcat MK2 .25 that was send to me dirctly by Johan Axelsson … after I index the barrel … WC is so precise that is one of the best I’w seen ( I keep the O rings on).
this is how did look like without O rings and you can see barrel position is diferent.
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What I can assume from your finding is that Fx has used O-rings to eliminate or minimize the indexing issue. This brings up another question, does the position of O-rings on the liner effect the POI. Let's suppose liner is 24 inches long and four orings are placed at 4 inches apart while the first the O-ring at 4 inches away from the breach. If the orings are moved further apart or closer will that change the POI or indexing?
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Thank you for all your hard work. Barrel indexing is a great idea to do. My Slug liner will be here Friday and intend on doing this. Do you know the size of the barrel O-rings? My Pellet liner didn't come with them and I used the stock ones. So I'm guessing the Slug liner will not come with them either.
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Yes, the spread of the o-rings can have a different effect of POI based on harmonics and barrel whip inside of the tube. Though I doubt small variations in the locations matter as much as a say leaving out the middle sets of o-rings would have on accuracy.
Another point interest in keeping everything aligned while indexing would be installing new o-rings to start the test. Older o-rings may have a narrower side due to the barrel and liner having put more pressure on one side of the the o-ring versus the opposite side. If the weaker side of the old o-rings were to rotate into a new position (or rotate into different positions for each) it is going to throw off legitimate accuracy finding of the test just a bit.
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Just to say I done some shooting at 130, 150 and 170m ... gun done good job, trajectory of pellet was good for long distance shooting. Before indexing this was not posible to be done.wind was 2-8mps, jsb king 282ms
Sorry for bad video ... pure amateur
https://youtu.be/EEvOIQhv8As
Sorry for bad video ... pure amateur
https://youtu.be/EEvOIQhv8As
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G
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Guest
Jimmy great minds must think alike...because I had the same idea several weeks ago. I have read about the theory and benefits of indexing gun barrels many times but never tried it myself until just recently. One afternoon several weeks ago I went shooting at my friend's back yard and it was one of those hot sultry humid dead flat calm days we get here in South Florida and the conditions were perfect to try this out with my Wildcat .30.
So I removed the shroud and the barrel liner nut and made a registration mark at the 12:00 position. At 50 yards I shot 7 shot groups at the 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 positions. The results were startling to say the least. Anyway, the best groups were at 12:00 and 3:00, and the worst were at 6:00 and 9:00; so I then shot a group at the 1:00 and 2:00 position, and finally at the 1:30 position. Then I removed the first mark and put a new one at the 12:00 position for future reference to show me where to reinstall the liner in the future if I ever take it out for any reason.
As you can well imagine the spot where I shot the last group at the 1:30 position was where all 7 shots went into one small hole at 50 yards. I encourage everyone with an STX barrel to index their liner and see for themselves the difference it makes. Before this experiment I shot groups with the o-rings on the liner, without the o-rings on the liner, and then with tape on the liner. The best groups I got were with substituting tape for the o-rings...I am guessing it stabilizes the liner better? Here is a pic of how I put tape on a barrel liner to help stabilize it instead of those pesky o-rings...I measure it so that each spot where the tape is just snug, but so I don't have to force it when I put it back in the barrel tube.
So I removed the shroud and the barrel liner nut and made a registration mark at the 12:00 position. At 50 yards I shot 7 shot groups at the 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 positions. The results were startling to say the least. Anyway, the best groups were at 12:00 and 3:00, and the worst were at 6:00 and 9:00; so I then shot a group at the 1:00 and 2:00 position, and finally at the 1:30 position. Then I removed the first mark and put a new one at the 12:00 position for future reference to show me where to reinstall the liner in the future if I ever take it out for any reason.
As you can well imagine the spot where I shot the last group at the 1:30 position was where all 7 shots went into one small hole at 50 yards. I encourage everyone with an STX barrel to index their liner and see for themselves the difference it makes. Before this experiment I shot groups with the o-rings on the liner, without the o-rings on the liner, and then with tape on the liner. The best groups I got were with substituting tape for the o-rings...I am guessing it stabilizes the liner better? Here is a pic of how I put tape on a barrel liner to help stabilize it instead of those pesky o-rings...I measure it so that each spot where the tape is just snug, but so I don't have to force it when I put it back in the barrel tube.
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Chuck, did you go with the position that gave you the highest POI or the tightest group? At 60yds all four of the stopping points yielded really good groups so I set my final position where I had the highest POI thinking that down range accuracy will be better which turned out to be at 180°. Haven't had a chance to really test it out with the wind seemingly deciding to blow whenever I decide to shoot.
JK
JK
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G
Guest
Guest
Tightest group! And then I had to re-zero my scope because best group of all was hitting about 6 inches low and 2 inches to the right of my former POI! Really strange to witness!
Jimmy as I shot groups while indexing the liner in my Wildcat .30 I eventually got a group at 50 yards where every shot was literally going in the same hole. So that is where I stopped and made a permanent mark at the 12:00 position for future reference with red fingernail polish that won't dissipate from the Napier over time. (its my favorite shade...)
I shot her at the range Sunday for a little while to see how she would do. I currently have the 44.75's running at an average velocity of 942 ft/s and the 50's running at an average of 906 ft/s. At 75 yards 7 shots with the 44.75's equaled one hole about the size of a nickel. I didn't shoot any 50's because I had forgot to put a can in my shooting box. At 100 yards with the 44.75's I got 1.5" to 2" groups... I had hoped for better but maybe someday they will come out with a slug liner in .30 and maybe these pellets will do better through it? We will just have to wait and see.
So far I am happy with the power and accuracy I am getting, but I will admit that I still yearn to see groups at 100 yards that I can cover with that nickel. In case you are wondering I am running one of the new Wildcat MKII High Pressure Regulators at 190 Bar (100-170 Bar - 2019 Model). I turned it up that high with confidence in Huub's test equipment that showed it would work up to 193 Bar...no creep - no problem.
Fond regards, Chuck
Jimmy as I shot groups while indexing the liner in my Wildcat .30 I eventually got a group at 50 yards where every shot was literally going in the same hole. So that is where I stopped and made a permanent mark at the 12:00 position for future reference with red fingernail polish that won't dissipate from the Napier over time. (its my favorite shade...)
I shot her at the range Sunday for a little while to see how she would do. I currently have the 44.75's running at an average velocity of 942 ft/s and the 50's running at an average of 906 ft/s. At 75 yards 7 shots with the 44.75's equaled one hole about the size of a nickel. I didn't shoot any 50's because I had forgot to put a can in my shooting box. At 100 yards with the 44.75's I got 1.5" to 2" groups... I had hoped for better but maybe someday they will come out with a slug liner in .30 and maybe these pellets will do better through it? We will just have to wait and see.
So far I am happy with the power and accuracy I am getting, but I will admit that I still yearn to see groups at 100 yards that I can cover with that nickel. In case you are wondering I am running one of the new Wildcat MKII High Pressure Regulators at 190 Bar (100-170 Bar - 2019 Model). I turned it up that high with confidence in Huub's test equipment that showed it would work up to 193 Bar...no creep - no problem.
Fond regards, Chuck
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