In defence of the clone

Forums Other Parts, Accessories, & Equipment In defence of the clone

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    bucketboy
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    A lot has been said about the poor build quality, the functionality and the durability of the cloned bipods, “you get what you pay for” is often said, all of this is true but for the price there are ok.

    They were never made to used on big bore rifles, they where made to to match styling of the original to be fitted on air soft weapons that match the styling of the original gun. I think most are advertised as such.

    The fact that these clones find there way onto many airguns, for the most part, work reasonably well for 20-30 times less than the original should applauded not ridiculed.

    When  a $15 clone doesn’t pan and tilt perfectly smoothly or the lock nut unscrews, it is frustrating, when a $2000 gun blows an o ring, suffers reg creep, we collectively shrug our shoulders and say “these things happen”

     

    yes the clones aren’t great, yes they fall apart, yes the are cheap, would I use one if I were a soldier, a police officer a serious target shooter, hell no, but for what I use them for, they are fine.

     

    Bb

     

    • This topic was modified 9 months ago by bucketboy.
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    parallax
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    +1

     

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    edosan
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    Is not about the price or functionality for me, is about been a copycat and copy exactly as the original (without any royalty or regrets).

    And that happens in airguns too. If you have the ability to make an airgun, at least do an original one, add your signature, be better! instead of using other peoples copyrights. 

    That being said, there are GREAT Clones out there too! jaja

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    bucketboy
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    edosan

    Is not about the price or functionality for me, is about been a copycat and copy exactly as the original (without any royalty or regrets).

    And that happens in airguns too. If you have the ability to make an airgun, at least do an original one, add your signature, be better! instead of using other peoples copyrights. 

    That being said, there are GREAT Clones out there too! jaja

    I absolutely agree about the “exact” copy and the royalties issue, personally as someone who shoot an airgun,  I would prefer the clones were improved functionality rather than the need to look exactly the same but those who shoot airsoft (rightly or wrongly) want realism.

    Bb

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    sonny
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    Nothing wrong with saving a few dollars specially if you dont have them. I say to each their own. Merry Christmas everyone.

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    whyzee
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    I cannot think of a single ‘cloned’ anything that is better/improved upon over the original that the ‘clone’ manufacturer copied it from. 

    I don’t think ‘better clones’ happen

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    SeeOhTwo
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    I agree with Edosan but I will say this. Clones thrive in a market where the original item is grossly overpriced for the amount of product you get.

    Glenn in Texas

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    hawkeye69
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    I won't buy clones, but the much less expensive UTG bi-pods have served me well.

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    L.Leon
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    SeeOhTwo

    I agree with Edosan but I will say this. Clones thrive in a market where the original item is grossly overpriced for the amount of product you get.

    Glenn in Texas

    I agree with the above. The real Atlas’ and Accu Tacs’ are at least 1/4 the costs of PCPs valued at 1K to 1.5K. That’s a lot of money for a bipod. It’s how some end up north of 4K with some rigs. The accessories add up fast!

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by L.Leon.
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    boscoebrea
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    give me"Seven of Nine" and I be  fine with that clone.

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    Vana2
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    This is a sensitive subject – as I found out earlier LOL! 

    To me, a quality product exactly meets the needs of the user.

    That being said, I try to buy the best quality products that I can afford and always balance cost vs value. I needed a bipod but my budget was limited so I bought a clone to make due for the interim.

    Upon receiving the clone, I was most annoyed when I saw the labeling on the product and the box claiming that it was an original – that is blatantly, false advertising. I don't think that anybody would believe that they could get an "original" at 1/6th the price but unscrupulous people might try to resell it to an unsuspecting buyer.

    On close inspection, the clone is quite well made for the price. As expected, there are some "price reducing" manufacturing approaches (the indexing plate is stamped rather than machined) and tolerances are a bit loose but all in all, I thought it was good value for the money. Half an hour of TLC – an O-ring, a couple of washers, grease and a wedge to eliminate the movement in the indexing plate and I have a decently functional bipod that moves the way it should and doesn't where it shouldn't. Wouldn't use one in competition or on a high powered firearm but I think that it is perfectly adequate for casual airgun use.

    As far as clones go… If you don't take care of your customer – then somebody else will. The company who makes the originals is geared to military quality products (and prices) and is clearly not catering to (or interested in) the average airgunner market – the people making the clones are. Their clones are a copy of the design but by the difference in manufacturing quality and approach, they are a different product. I just wish that they would (proudly) announce that they are selling an airgun level product and market it as such. 

    So, in defence of the clone, I think the one I received is good value for the money and (with a bit of tweaking) meets my current needs/budget. Should I decide that I need something better I'll be back doing some research.

    Hank

     

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    Steyr
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    L.Leon

    SeeOhTwo

    I agree with Edosan but I will say this. Clones thrive in a market where the original item is grossly overpriced for the amount of product you get.

    Glenn in Texas

    I agree with the above. The real Atlas’ and Accu Tacs’ are at least 1/4 the costs of PCPs valued at 1K to 1.5K. That’s a lot of money for a bipod. It’s how some end up north of 4K with some rigs. The accessories add up fast!

    Agree – not everybody out there can afford high end equipment but we all would like to experience at least some part of owning high end stuff. I'm currently into watches or "chronographs" but theres no way in this life of mine I will ever afford to drop 5k on a real rolex, 15k on a real Audemars piguet, so replicas fill that void for me. I know what others will say about clones/replicas but hey we not all made of money…

     

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    Macros
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    hawkeye69

    I won't buy clones, but the much less expensive UTG bi-pods have served me well.

    I'm with Hawkeye69 on this – my UTG Recon 360's have served me very well and they're their own product. Perfectly good quality for airgun use.

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    stoti
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    If you don’t want to spend the money on an Accu Tac or Atlas, I completely understand. However there are other options that are not clones. Clones are usually crAp anyway! Buying clones hurts US businesses and costs US manufacturers a ton of money in sales and trying to protect their intellectual property and patents. I have a clone that I bought before I knew the problem this is causing, so I’m not judging anyone. Just be aware these clones, Atlas, Accu Tac, Leupold, Zeiss, hurt the real manufacturers, it’s a huge problem and a big part of the trade war going on with China. It seems that most people these days subscribe to the notion that if it’s not hurting me it’s okay.

    Stoti

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    mtnGhost
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    stoti

    If you don’t want to spend the money on an Accu Tac or Atlas, I completely understand. However there are other options that are not clones. Clones are usually crAp anyway! Buying clones hurts US businesses and costs US manufacturers a ton of money in sales and trying to protect their intellectual property and patents. I have a clone that I bought before I knew the problem this is causing, so I’m not judging anyone. Just be aware these clones, Atlas, Accu Tac, Leupold, Zeiss, hurt the real manufacturers, it’s a huge problem and a big part of the trade war going on with China. It seems that most people these days subscribe to the notion that if it’s not hurting me it’s okay.

    Stoti

    I'm not a religious person, but AMEN to that stoti

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    hawkeye69
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    stoti

    If you don’t want to spend the money on an Accu Tac or Atlas, I completely understand. However there are other options that are not clones. Clones are usually crAp anyway! Buying clones hurts US businesses and costs US manufacturers a ton of money in sales and trying to protect their intellectual property and patents. I have a clone that I bought before I knew the problem this is causing, so I’m not judging anyone. Just be aware these clones, Atlas, Accu Tac, Leupold, Zeiss, hurt the real manufacturers, it’s a huge problem and a big part of the trade war going on with China. It seems that most people these days subscribe to the notion that if it’s not hurting me it’s okay.

    Stoti

    I agree with you in a sense and I am not excusing the people who make the clones. But perhaps the manufacturer's pricing encourages the copy-cats. I have to question whether a relatively simple product, like a bi-pod, needs to be priced 10X as much as a cloned product to make a reasonable profit. While I don't know what their actual manufacturing costs are,  I do understand that with a huge markup, they will still make as much or even more profit than they would selling more units at a lower price.

    Just saying.
     

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    Centercut
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    I've been using this UTG on some of my guns for the past year. Very good bipod for $41.50 and not a clone…

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06VV3MH76/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_PWN-DbRZP0QJP

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    stoti
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    Hawkeye, I do understand it’s a lot of money and like I said, I’m not judging people, just trying to make them aware that it’s a huge problem for so many US companies in many different sectors. Sporting goods, optics, electronics, high fashion, watches, you name it. The makers price the bipods according to what people will pay and clearly they’re selling a lot of them at these prices. I wish the prices were lower too but they know exactly what they’re doing. They lose some sales because of the prices but make their margins because of where they set the price. 

     I’m not a wealthy man but I’m willing to pay for nice things by selling something I don’t use or saving my pennies. You can buy an Atlas for just over $200 which in our sport isn’t bad at all. If that’s still too much for you, one of the many other great bipods like Magpul, UTG, Harris, Caldwell, or others, which are far superior anyway. Harris has been a low priced, top tier bipod for years and for good reason, they work great!

    I was oblivious to the problem until I was talking to Kasey at Atlas a couple years back because I was competing with one of his Atlas bipods. He told me about all of the problems. It really opened my eyes!

    I hope I didn’t piss anyone off or hurt their feelings, not at all my intention.

    Merry Christmas!

    Stoti

     

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by stoti.
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    Vana2
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    Interesting discussion.

    Just thinking, does Audi get upset if I drive a Ford? Do they care? I could never afford an Audi so I am not a potential customer anyway. No skin off their nose either way.

    Seems that most of the stuff these days is "Made in China". The HPA tank that I am looking at is $750, it's Chinese made and it looks to be identical to the ones on Aliexpress that are half that price – shipping included. Wonder if both are made by the same factory. I suspect that most of the non-clone, reasonably priced bipods are made in China.

    So why can a simple name-brand bipod sold for 10x the price of a knockoff? Don't know – not like it is a highly complicate product that takes years to recoup the development costs. Maybe it's because people will pay that price? I'm not saying that a clone is as good, it's not. But then a Ford isn't and Audi either. I expect that the clone manufacturers are happy with their profit margin – otherwise they would get out of the game.

    I don't agree with people stealing intellectual property. Nothing wrong with making fair profit. 

    As I say, interesting discussion – good to see the different viewpoints; very strong feelings involved.

    Cheers!

     

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    marflow
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    I have a question, how long have the Atlas bipod been made, could it be there patent has run out, leaving there design to be copied by who ever

    but the Chinese have been copying thinks for ever

    just a thought

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