I'm not impressed with 1 inch groups at 100 yards

Forums Benchrest Benchrest Talk I'm not impressed with 1 inch groups at 100 yards

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    kaylaindy
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    I was about to finalize my order tomorrow for the new RAW Air Force LRT (HM1000x) in .25 cal with a polygon barrel. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought the highest end PCP's would do better than 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I was watching all the videos on the new RAW and Tyler shot it at 93 yards with 1.1 and 1.5 inch groups. Seems like you couldn't count on a humane kill at 100 yards with 1 and a half inch groups. (if your aiming for the brain on a critter). 

    Is there a gun that will do 1/2 inch groups at 100 yardsIf so, let me know the gun/ammo combo that you think could do 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards.  Thanks -Nate 

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    davecole
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    badgerbob
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    Naive is correct! Even $5000 powder burners do not guarantee that level of accuracy. Simply put, do not try headshots at 100 yards.

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    kaylaindy
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    Dave, Good one! But I'd rather see a picture of 1/2 inch group you shot at 100 yards. I have alot of air rifles, but I don't have much shooting experience. I never saw the movie "Footloose", but I think the premise was that dancing was actually illegal in some small town. Well, that's my life…only air gun shooting it strictly forbidden, which is just about as stupid as people who hate dancing. …and in my neck of the woods, if you walk into the forest with a gun, you will probably be killed or put in jail.

    Some day I'll be able to find out for myself what happens when you shoot at 100 yards. I'm moving out of state in a couple months so I can do just that. Horray! -Nate

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    kaylaindy
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    Naive is correct! Even $5000 powder burners do not guarantee that level of accuracy. Simply put, do not try headshots at 100 yards.

    Ok, That makes sense. Great info. Thanks! -Nate 

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    Saltlake58
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    My son's friend shoots a 6.5 creedmor. It's nearly a $2000 gun and scope, and it took him a couple years to break in the barrel and work up a load to get better than 1 inch at 100 yards.  Now, after all that work, it's literally single hole groups, about a eigth MOA.  Having said that, 1 MOA at 100 yards for an airgun is pretty much top end of the technology.

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    Shinyknight
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    For airgun 1" at 100 yard is consider good, even for high end PCP $1500-2000. If you want 1/2" at 100+ yards, you need a powder burner. Who does head shots on small birds at 100 yards. That's 300 feet. A hummingbird is about 1". If your gun can hit a hummingbird at 100 yards, that is a really good gun. Are you trying to shoot flies at 100 yard or what?

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    bubblerboy64
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    There are very few PEOPLE who can CONSISTENTLY shoot one inch groups at 100 yards.  

    There are few DAYS when conditions are ideal to allow such shooting 

    Shooting ONE one hole group goes not make a one hole shooting gun   

    There are some bench rest specific guns and shooters who can do this but air rifles I’ll believe that when it’s proven to me.  

     

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    kaylaindy
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    saltlake, HMR17 is good too, my Dad has one. 2 years to break in the barrel? I better get to shooting that Ruger precision 6.5 I got! …but there is no talking about powder burners allowed here. They are stinky and loud. NO MORE!! -Nate  

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    kaylaindy
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    There are very few PEOPLE who can CONSISTENTLY shoot one inch groups at 100 yards.  

    There are few DAYS when conditions are ideal to allow such shooting 

    Shooting ONE one hole group goes not make a one hole shooting gun   

    There are some bench rest specific guns and shooters who can do this but air rifles I’ll believe that when it’s proven to me. 

    Wow…so I should be going for 1 inch groups at 100 yards and be happy if I can do that. I do realize I have to learn windage and all that complicated stuff. Ted won EBR by calculating a 9 mile an hour cross wind (and nailing it!), when everyone else stopped shooting. I wouldn't even know where to start to figure out something like that. I look forward to being able to learn that stuff when I'm able to shoot more next year. Thanks for the great insight! -Nate 

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    kaylaindy
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    Are you trying to shoot flies at 100 yard or what?

    I just want to do something amazing with an airgun!  on video preferably. Hoping the Huben will open that door. I;m going for the .22 vs .25 so I can push slugs as fast as possible..some day I'll have to do the Impact X 700mm thing…but I'm waiting till I get some slug manufacturers sending me free ammo. 

    oh yeah, there is a new airgun coming that pushes .22 ammo (regular bullets, not slugs) at 1400 FPS said to be stable. It's in the AirGunGearShow Shot Show 2019 video when Giles is at the Umarex booth. I got there number here somewhere but I haven't called them yet. (It's not made by Umarex).

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    bubblerboy64
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    Shooting pellets OR slugs at 1400 ft per second is going to cause all kinds of problems.  Will some one be producing jacketed slugs?   

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    CampFussell
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    Nate, it's a pretty tough accomplishment to get under one inch with 5 shots. I've tried many times and the best so far is 1.2".

    Just need to find a completely windless day.

    A really good read here about Virgil King's 100 yard indoor shooting with PB's back in the 90's.

    http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/secrets-of-the-houston-warehouse-by-dave-scott-precision-shooting-magazine-special-edition-1-1993.pdf

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    shoot44
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    58:

    In 2 years it would easy to break in and wear out SEVERAL 6.5 creedmor barrels, and they are not cheap. Yes it takes time to work up a accurate load. It is not difficult, except for the NOISE, NOISE, NOISE, to shoot 1 hole 100yd 5 shot groups with PBers.  Looks like air gun barrels last a whole lot longer.

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    ptthere
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    If you want sub-MOA groups at 100 yards (with not much wind), thent a bolt-action .17 HMR would be better suited for head-shots. Also, you shouldn't have any appreciable break-in period with a powder-burner. Buy it, clean it, and shoot it with quality ammo on day #1, and how the gun performs will be close to it's best. 

    I am happy with sub-1" groups (minus flyers) out of a NP gun at 30 yards with a "seasoned" barrel. With my .17 HMR, every round is easily stacked through the same hole at that distance… with a clean barrel.

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    edosan
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    kaylaindy

    Is there a gun that will do 1/2 inch groups at 100 yardsIf so, let me know the gun/ammo combo that you think could do 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards.  Thanks -Nate 

    Out of the box, do not think so. But well tuned, for sure. Many examples on it, check Matt Dubbers Instagram (for example), 100 yards on mild wind, spot on.

    IMO Fine tuning is an important (or fundamental) part of sub moa accuracy, and choosing,  the right ammo. Do not want to talk about brands because there are several that can do it, raw for sure one of them…I have made it also, very often.

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    1BadDart
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    badgerbob

    Naive is correct! Even $5000 powder burners do not guarantee that level of accuracy. Simply put, do not try headshots at 100 yards.

    Actuall there are rifles for less than $5000 that guarantee 1” accuracy at 100 yards. I have two off the shel rifles that will do it. My Savage 22-250 will put three in a hole smaller than a dime at 100 yards and head shots on ground hogs at that distance are no problem.

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    jps2486
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    There are too many variables that affect accuracy of low powered guns, especially airguns.  Hold, breathing, follow through,  and mostly wind and pellet quality.  Sure, you can shoot 1/2 inch groups and the guns are capable of doing so, but it may be one group out of a hundred. 

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    JamesD.
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    Targets, not for hunting but; on my past 2 AZ Rapids. The .22 could literally put 5 or more under a dime @ 100 yards on a WINDLESS day. That was with, surprise, CPHP’s out of any tin. Had a tight choke. Past 100 JSB of any type surpassed them.

    The .25 with me using a 135 yard zero & 4 mil hold over on 6x whacked a Crow at a laser measured 172 yards. I ranged it after the kill & did take a total of 3 shots. The 3rd was a mil to the right. That was luck but it can do it if you can read wind or have a ballistics program to help get in the ball park.

    Lots of people will say 100 yard shots on game is unethical with an underpowered projectile & I’ve even seen people give the worlds best grief for long range archery kills even though he sent it through the Bull Elks heart & that’s as ethical as it gets in archery.

    You review the things & haven’t come up with best pellet to speed to barrel on your personal guns? The guys are right though as some companies will guarantee 1moa at 100 with 3 shot factory ammo. Custom makers will guarantee down to 1/4 mos with proper hand loads. The ability to do it is there but what about that but behind the trigger? Not you personally Klaindy, anyone shooting has to know conditions.

    I’d say lead up your barrel & give it time. Also try Slick 50 One.

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    Marketing Marketing Marketing.

    Seems the Dreamline will do 1" @ 100 yds for half the price.  Tiapan does it for about $900 less and doesn't need a 14' barrel to create power. 

    Compare $1000 guns to $2000+ guns and the performance doesn't seem to match the price increase. 

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