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Guilty on most counts. Fortunately the members here have the patience of a saint cuz I'm still here treading water and making progress. Good post oldspook!
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Whoosh... right over his head...
You are the guy that told him UPS sucked, right? Just a joke...But what the heck, might as well address some of your points:
1) Conflict between customers expectations and vendors promises?
No. Vendors are driven to publish some numbers which are true but irrelevant. It doesn't matter that thus and such a gun can shoot a paper wad supersonic. Unfortunately new customers don't know that. That is the *markets* fault and we can help answer that kind of question in forums like this one.
2) The marketing/online videos...
No. Vendors are on the hook for marketing videos. Only the clown that made the youtube video is responsible for what he said in his video, vendors are not responsible for that.
3) performance and the reality can be diametrally different.
No. Performance and reality are exactly the same all the time. Promises and performance may sometimes vary, when they do the word gets out and sales fall. That is how markets work. If a promise is far enough from reality refunds happen and lawyers get involved.
4) online forums. These days they all turned into technical support knowledge bases.
Not sure that is a bad thing?
5) i believe the manufacturers should get their acts together. Dealers should be less greedy too. I think the high end pcps are massively overpriced.
By definition building a high tech machine that can repeatedly put one pellet on top of another at a price which can be afforded by a person of modest means is an endeavor which REQUIRES the manufacturer to have their act together already, which they generally do.
Dealers are re-sellers who provide a service. They invest many thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in a product hoping to purchase that product at a low enough price that a ten or twenty percent markup will not prevent the sale of the entire lot. If you bought exactly one of said product from the manufacturer you would likely pay a premium over the price the dealer gets for you by virtue of his volume.
Overpriced? I am going to build a container which holds about as much energy as your average hand grenade. I am going to attach that container to a barrel and a magazine in such a way that you can repeatedly put one pellet into the same hole at 25 meters. I am going to put safety features on that machine which ensure that you (and I) are not liable due to an accidental discharge or more fun than that a bottle failure. Not only am I going to do all of that, I am going to make the damn thing a work of art both beautiful and functional. If you don't want to pay for it, buy something cheaper.
6) ... "genuine hardware problems." ... "PCPs are not very robust, by sesign or working principle, build, quality ..."
Bull... Ninety nine percent of "hardware problems" with PCPs are induced by users who have the "fuxwidit" virus. If you doesn't "fuxwidit" it won't be broken and it will most likely do exactly what it is supposed to do.
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I have no problems with a topic of "My gun is not shooting correctly". In fact this would be a rather boring forum if the topic said "My gun shoots fine". If someone has a gun of quality and knows how to shoot well. I feel if someone could lend a hand to correct the problem...... So why not?
Sure if someone bought a lower end gun, and thinks he can shoot a raged hole with it. It's kind of a waste of time. People try to still be helpful without letting them know about the "Elephant" in the topic. I know a guy at work that has asked me several times "Do you know how to set up my scope? I can't hit anything". I asked what do you have and he says "I don't know??? I bought it at Walmart". Some progress to a finer weapon, and some just give up. Most new airgun shooters I have to believe, do not start out with a $2000 gun and a $1000+ scope. We just help them along with what they have, to get as good as the gun will allow. I'm still learning about airguns myself. I am enjoying my airguns more than the powder guns right now because they are a whole different animal. I can also shoot them on my property without a problem.
What does irritate me is...... Threads that have no closure. Everyone pitches in to help, and we never hear if the problem was solved. I own a motorcycle forum and one of the topic starters in the index is titled, "What broke?" Symptoms and HOW DID IT FIX IT?
Sure if someone bought a lower end gun, and thinks he can shoot a raged hole with it. It's kind of a waste of time. People try to still be helpful without letting them know about the "Elephant" in the topic. I know a guy at work that has asked me several times "Do you know how to set up my scope? I can't hit anything". I asked what do you have and he says "I don't know??? I bought it at Walmart". Some progress to a finer weapon, and some just give up. Most new airgun shooters I have to believe, do not start out with a $2000 gun and a $1000+ scope. We just help them along with what they have, to get as good as the gun will allow. I'm still learning about airguns myself. I am enjoying my airguns more than the powder guns right now because they are a whole different animal. I can also shoot them on my property without a problem.
What does irritate me is...... Threads that have no closure. Everyone pitches in to help, and we never hear if the problem was solved. I own a motorcycle forum and one of the topic starters in the index is titled, "What broke?" Symptoms and HOW DID IT FIX IT?
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I must be old....... Could I get the definition of umpty-fratz and fuxwidit? I already know who Billy Bob is. 
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Some people just are not that great of a shot. They watch a video or read some threads that show x pcp shot a very tight group and people are very happy with the accuracy of the rifle. They already own a cheaper pcp and thats got to be the reason they cant shoot good. So they buy that $1500 pcp thinking its going to be the key to their shooting. Of course this isnt every person who has accuracy issues but sometimes it is. Like already mentioned allot of people dont take the time to tune the rifle or shoot different pellets at different settings to see what combo will give the best results. In order to get the most accuracy out of a pcp or even center fire rifle is to do the homework and tune for the right pellet at the correct speed. Its not as simple as shooting 5 different pellet types. You also have to go thru different speeds for each of those pellets to see what the effect is on accuracy. Sometimes you get lucky but usually you need to put in some work and also be able to shoot good enough to get that accuracy.
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=) Great little gif there. Where did you get that?"Dirte"I must be old....... Could I get the definition of umpty-fratz and fuxwidit? I already know who Billy Bob is.
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It is a little frustrating dealing with a guy who spends $5000. on equipment and has no idea of what he's getting or how to use it. But they usually have a short attention span and don't stick around long. They can be a valuable resource for cheap used equipment.
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I think its easy to forget these are pellet rifles. The wind has such a dramatic effect on all these pellets. Alot of the threads you refer to are probably a combination of wind and shooting skills. Even pcp rifles are way more hold sensitive than a typical powder burner. Just look at the mass of the hammer, spring, valve movent etc...vs a firing pin. I bet the lockspeed on a typical powder burner is way faster too.
I see where your going with it tho. What percentage of it is unrealistic expectations of an airgun from a new airgunner.
I read a thread on the yellow where someone cursed a brand new wolverine because it wouldnt stay cocked after about 50 shots. He payed return shipping and wrote the brand off.........and you and I know it was a quarter turn on the trigger adjustment to give more sear engagement. 5 minutes......fixed. Done. To me.....it made him sound........nevermind.
I see where your going with it tho. What percentage of it is unrealistic expectations of an airgun from a new airgunner.
I read a thread on the yellow where someone cursed a brand new wolverine because it wouldnt stay cocked after about 50 shots. He payed return shipping and wrote the brand off.........and you and I know it was a quarter turn on the trigger adjustment to give more sear engagement. 5 minutes......fixed. Done. To me.....it made him sound........nevermind.
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When you make a post like that it becomes more about you and less about whoever/whatever you are pointing your finger at.
If it frustrates you so much you could try being more tolerant, and/or try ignoring those types of posts.
Good luck!
If it frustrates you so much you could try being more tolerant, and/or try ignoring those types of posts.
Good luck!
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Yeah, if you take life too seriously you can't see the humor in anything, eh?
Let me help you out:
<RANT ON> was your first clue
The satirical part goes here...
</RANT OFF> was your last clue
The point of the exercise was to help some folks to realize that we can't help them when they don't give real information about the problem. It was also meant to remind those of us who are johnny on the spot to help that our help should be relevant to the shooter's problem. The intent was to do that in a way that would give everyone a bit of a giggle.
No doubt a man could stick his thumb where the sun does not shine and dance a jig and there would still be someone to accuse him of being too serious.
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To be fair think about all the posts and vids of experienced PCP shooters targeting 60 70 and even 100 yards out popping targets with what looks like consistent ease.
Those like Ted make it look so easy,
add to that all the inconsistency of air gun performance measurements and the simple lack of knowledge about air rifles from those newcomers many who have shot firearms and all of a sudden they can't understand why they can't get the accuracy they do with firearms.
Most people shoot what I would describe as instinctive, they are not worried about the science and for the most part they shot firearms at about 100yards so didn't need to learn any of it. But when we move to Airguns 100 yard shots can equate to 300, 400 hard shots with firearms.
As to the post being a waste of time that's not really fair, the only stupid question is the one not asked.
I would love it if Mike would create a sticky or section with locked posts that walks through getting started and tips on learning to shoot air rifles at a competitive level. This would let him move threads that do teach newcomers and even experienced shooters something new.
Those like Ted make it look so easy,
add to that all the inconsistency of air gun performance measurements and the simple lack of knowledge about air rifles from those newcomers many who have shot firearms and all of a sudden they can't understand why they can't get the accuracy they do with firearms.
Most people shoot what I would describe as instinctive, they are not worried about the science and for the most part they shot firearms at about 100yards so didn't need to learn any of it. But when we move to Airguns 100 yard shots can equate to 300, 400 hard shots with firearms.
As to the post being a waste of time that's not really fair, the only stupid question is the one not asked.
I would love it if Mike would create a sticky or section with locked posts that walks through getting started and tips on learning to shoot air rifles at a competitive level. This would let him move threads that do teach newcomers and even experienced shooters something new.
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I get ya-I'm considering saving all my text about diagnosing and fixes for the common cheap springer/new to airguns posts so I can just paste it in when answering. Contrary to popular belief, many cheap springers can shoot well. The trick is not going insane wondering if it's you, the gun, the scope or the pellets! I don't blame the new shooter who fell for the '1400 fps with PBA ammo' hype for being frustrated when they find out they can't hit anything. That velocity hype is a very effective marketing tool, too bad it sours many uninformed shooters on airguns.
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When I start stressing on what others are doing, I remind myself;
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Not my circus, not my monkeys
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I dont think anyone is saying those posts are a waste of time. It would just be good if the thread started off with all the necessary info so people can make better suggestions for a fix.
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So what are you saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My red Ryder BB gun shoots dime size holes at 100 yards,
Do you think I need to upgrade to a 177 pump pellet rifle?
or do you thing a springer will be better for me.
I would like to get a top notch PCP air gun but my local gas station compressor only goes to 120 PSI
Do you think I can tune it down to shoot with 120PSI air?????
Thanks
Mike
My red Ryder BB gun shoots dime size holes at 100 yards,
Do you think I need to upgrade to a 177 pump pellet rifle?
or do you thing a springer will be better for me.
I would like to get a top notch PCP air gun but my local gas station compressor only goes to 120 PSI
Do you think I can tune it down to shoot with 120PSI air?????
Thanks
Mike
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Good post, lots of truth in it.
Both made those threads and spouted irrelevant stuff in them.
Both made those threads and spouted irrelevant stuff in them.
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