If you’re into 100y 5 shot groups
- Thread starter thomasair
- Start date
Truly incredible shooting accuracy on all those groups Mike! What’s remarkable is that it was all done “outdoors,” and at 100 yards. The 247-12x card was the icing on the cake.
Amazing effort!
Amazing effort!
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Amazing! Can't get much better...if any! In your case, how would you break down such performance?
For example: 40% equipment 20% tuning 10% shooter skill 10% ammo 10% luck 10% environmental conditions
For example: 40% equipment 20% tuning 10% shooter skill 10% ammo 10% luck 10% environmental conditions
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We are awake and paying attention.
Invites to all .22 air gunners. We hope to see some show up at our rimfire matches.
Shooting shoulder to shoulder is the best way to sort out the rimfire vs air rifle accuracy issue.
If air rifles can cut the mustard many current rimfire shooters will join your ranks.
Of course that is a two way street.
TKH
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Dang Mike! That is impressive! I thought the first few groups were impressive the other day, and then you post that EBR style card. Most of us would love to have that card at 50 yards.
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Thanks,
I’m not sure how to break it down to very good percentages.
If your gun is not really capable of shooting a particular Moa grouping....it will eventually do so if you shoot long enough. When that happens it’s a very high percentage of luck.
If every time you go out to shoot at a particular distance your gun shoots a particular MOA group or better....the luck factor now only applies to when it shoots something much smaller.
Of all the groups I shot once I found the tuner setting I liked...they would all fit easily under a quarter except one that had a hole just partially out. That suggests that this gun is probably around 3/4-1 moa reliably....although it will shoot 1/4 moa periodically and 1/2 with probably 3-4x the frequency.
Tony...you are safe to go back to sleep for now. I’ll wake you up if I ever make it to your neighborhood.
Mike
I’m not sure how to break it down to very good percentages.
If your gun is not really capable of shooting a particular Moa grouping....it will eventually do so if you shoot long enough. When that happens it’s a very high percentage of luck.
If every time you go out to shoot at a particular distance your gun shoots a particular MOA group or better....the luck factor now only applies to when it shoots something much smaller.
Of all the groups I shot once I found the tuner setting I liked...they would all fit easily under a quarter except one that had a hole just partially out. That suggests that this gun is probably around 3/4-1 moa reliably....although it will shoot 1/4 moa periodically and 1/2 with probably 3-4x the frequency.
Tony...you are safe to go back to sleep for now. I’ll wake you up if I ever make it to your neighborhood.
Mike
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Just for reference...here is what guys like Tony can do at 50y outdoors with a good Rimfire gun.
Mike
Mike
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Tony, (Mike N - you have seen these targets already in another post )
I shot this last week with my Anschutz 1907 custom BR .22 LR. Shot at 50 yards, but disregard my incorrect scoring as I had no clue how to score. I also shot my Safari .22 HP RW at same distance, but it was not good. I only show this to illustrate how difficult it is to compare my 50 yard .22 LR to my air gun shooting skills.
I know the wind picked up a bit as I was shooting the Safari, but this was the reality of the side by side. We have some very good competition 100 yard AG BR shooters on the AGN who can keep up with the RFs. I think Mike N proved that with his 247-12X card with the Thomas. There are quite a few others who can shoot 100 yard BR too.
I'm maybe average or slightly below average RF shooter, but I can't come close to my accuracy at 50, 75 or 100y with my Safari or RAW HM1000x .22 HP air guns to my rimfires.
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I am ready to switch from ARA at my club and beat fellow competitors with an airgun. That would be pure enjoyment.
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Wow Mike, thanks for posting, and a big thanks to the rest of us mere mortals who posted their fine targets as well. I'm just amazed at how far airguns have come in the short seven years I've been shooting them,
This would have been my best group ever if I hadn't blown that 5th shot. I love looking back at old targets and saying to myself, yup I got lucky that day.
This would have been my best group ever if I hadn't blown that 5th shot. I love looking back at old targets and saying to myself, yup I got lucky that day.
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I don’t know Dana.
After seeing Tony’s 250-24X perfect score on his Rimfire card, and shot with his .22 LR; you might have your hands full beating the RF guys with your airgun. Wish you all the best.
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It’s going to be a big challenge....but I’m up for it. Air is capable enough....it’s the learning how to keep the equipment in the zone that is the ultimate hurdle.
The overwhelming majority of Rimfire shooters don’t turn in cards like that....so that’s one of the best from one of the best.
The cost of Rimfire per shot is 10x air....or more for competitive Ammo that is capable of great cards. That’s a big deal. If the innovators and the leaders of Rimfire get involved in air...it will come along faster.
Mike
The overwhelming majority of Rimfire shooters don’t turn in cards like that....so that’s one of the best from one of the best.
The cost of Rimfire per shot is 10x air....or more for competitive Ammo that is capable of great cards. That’s a big deal. If the innovators and the leaders of Rimfire get involved in air...it will come along faster.
Mike
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Mike
You are in a position with your Thomas to give the RF guys a real challenge at 50 yards. We clearly saw that with a 247 score.
Given what you know about both RF and Air Guns, do you think that the average or better than average air gun BR shooter can beat an equal with a RF at 50 yards? I really don't know the answer, but would not mind an opinion.
As an example, I feel that in perfect wind conditions, I am capable of a 245+ score at 50 yards with a good BR .22 LR. I’ve not shot that score yet, but I think I could in no wind conditions. Have great confidence in my Anschutz .22 LR
You are in a position with your Thomas to give the RF guys a real challenge at 50 yards. We clearly saw that with a 247 score.
Given what you know about both RF and Air Guns, do you think that the average or better than average air gun BR shooter can beat an equal with a RF at 50 yards? I really don't know the answer, but would not mind an opinion.
As an example, I feel that in perfect wind conditions, I am capable of a 245+ score at 50 yards with a good BR .22 LR. I’ve not shot that score yet, but I think I could in no wind conditions. Have great confidence in my Anschutz .22 LR
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The average or better than average air gun shooter doesn’t stand much chance in RFBR at 50y. To get in the same ballpark..,you must be shooting a slug that has similar wind resistance and equal accuracy. There are pellet rifles that can shoot 250s at 50y as long as conditions are favorable. Once you get beyond light conditions....scores will drop quickly with pellets.
I averaged 248.1 over nearly 60 cards at 50y with my 40gr slugs in all kinds of wind. Unfortunately, that is still not good enough to compete with the strong RF shooters. It’s probably enough to hang with a lot of club shooters.
Mike
I averaged 248.1 over nearly 60 cards at 50y with my 40gr slugs in all kinds of wind. Unfortunately, that is still not good enough to compete with the strong RF shooters. It’s probably enough to hang with a lot of club shooters.
Mike
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That answers that.
So, for any RF or Air gun guys following there you go.
I will say that the 40g R-50 ammo with a .22 LR does buck the wind better than pellets at 50 yards. No comparison in my AG vs. RF testing.
Can’t imagine shooting a 248, let alone an average of same after 60 cards.
So, for any RF or Air gun guys following there you go.
I will say that the 40g R-50 ammo with a .22 LR does buck the wind better than pellets at 50 yards. No comparison in my AG vs. RF testing.
Can’t imagine shooting a 248, let alone an average of same after 60 cards.
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All I can say is wow! Those are some amazing groups with a "pellet gun". Out of curiosity what scopes are you guys using to shoot these groups?
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After three rifles and about a year of trying, I’ve come to the conclusion that shooting pellets competitively at 100 yards makes no sense.
I tried both a 22 and 25 red wolf. Used the Heli board and programmer.
Neither one of them shoots consistent enough at 100 yards in any kind of conditions other than perfect. Even in perfect conditions you still get flyers even with the best batch of pellets.
it makes absolutely no sense to me to have a contest shooting at 100 yards with pellets, when the slugs shoot so much better, and are aerodynamically so superior.
I don’t understand why we try to compete with pellets at 100 yards.
Mike explain this to me about a year and a half ago. I had to find out for myself. I would be very interested in a competition with slugs, but I’m just not willing to put up with the inconsistencies caused by the pellets.
I have been shooting pellet guns at long range past 100 yards for over 10 years. With a little luck, perfect technique and a great rifle you can still shoot a great five shot group with pellets. If you double the size of the group to 10 shots, the group basically doubles in size. I spent an entire summer trying to shoot a 10 shot group, as good as my best five shot groups. It’s not possible.
then you take it up to 25 shots, forget it. The guy who wins is going to be the guy who shoots really well and gets lucky at the same time. He probably also has the best batch of pellets.
I shot about a dozen cards over 230 with pellets during that time. Once I broke 240. In every single case conditions were absolutely perfect. If I try to do the same thing in any kind of wind above 3 to 5 miles an hour, I’m going to drop down to 200. It just makes absolutely no sense to me. And I am very stubborn, it took me over a year to finally come to this conclusion.
mike
I tried both a 22 and 25 red wolf. Used the Heli board and programmer.
Neither one of them shoots consistent enough at 100 yards in any kind of conditions other than perfect. Even in perfect conditions you still get flyers even with the best batch of pellets.
it makes absolutely no sense to me to have a contest shooting at 100 yards with pellets, when the slugs shoot so much better, and are aerodynamically so superior.
I don’t understand why we try to compete with pellets at 100 yards.
Mike explain this to me about a year and a half ago. I had to find out for myself. I would be very interested in a competition with slugs, but I’m just not willing to put up with the inconsistencies caused by the pellets.
I have been shooting pellet guns at long range past 100 yards for over 10 years. With a little luck, perfect technique and a great rifle you can still shoot a great five shot group with pellets. If you double the size of the group to 10 shots, the group basically doubles in size. I spent an entire summer trying to shoot a 10 shot group, as good as my best five shot groups. It’s not possible.
then you take it up to 25 shots, forget it. The guy who wins is going to be the guy who shoots really well and gets lucky at the same time. He probably also has the best batch of pellets.
I shot about a dozen cards over 230 with pellets during that time. Once I broke 240. In every single case conditions were absolutely perfect. If I try to do the same thing in any kind of wind above 3 to 5 miles an hour, I’m going to drop down to 200. It just makes absolutely no sense to me. And I am very stubborn, it took me over a year to finally come to this conclusion.
mike
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