I need something "smarter" than that…

Forums General Discussion I need something "smarter" than that…

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    ShootistX
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    Spectator

    I am very familiar with what scopes do, thank you very much.
    There is no scope out there that is going to place your projectile, exactly where you want it , every time you want it there.
    No matter how good, or how automated the scope is, your limiting factor will be the ammunition, efficiency, and technique.
    As to a scope with sensors built in that automatically  dopes wind for you with a pellet. This is not going  to happen either.
    The wind is turbulence. What it’s doing in one place, its not doing in another.

    As to a scope with no reticle, unless you’re firing a laser guided pellet. That is not going to happen in yours or my lifetime, either.

    And my last point. There is already a scope that will do what you’re asking for. You can have it now. But it will cost you dearly. And it is not designed around a domed pellet with a very low ballistic coefficient.
    The package is sold as a unit and calibrated to that unit, in this case a 6.5mm creedmoor.
    It can be found here.

    SHADOWTRAX6

    Thank you for calling my reply , complete and utter nonsense.

     

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    T3PRanch
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    “kmd1984”

    “T3PRanch”Although a cool idea ….. One EM Pulse and all the electronic’s stop dead. I guess my old Boy Scout motto of “be prepared” (and the current World Political Climate) keeps me from liking any electronic controls that could stop working and render my gun useless (I can live without electronics but not without food or food collection tools). Just my 2 cents!
    Thurmond

    
Are you serious or just f-ing around?

    Quite serious. In my area where the relative humidity can be in the single digits static electricity can also render electronics useless either by locking up or the static charge killing them completely not to mention frequent and very close lightning strikes which are natures EMP.

    Thurmond 


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    sonny
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    there’s always video games

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    kmd1984
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    “T3PRanch”

    “kmd1984”

    “T3PRanch”Although a cool idea ….. One EM Pulse and all the electronic’s stop dead. I guess my old Boy Scout motto of “be prepared” (and the current World Political Climate) keeps me from liking any electronic controls that could stop working and render my gun useless (I can live without electronics but not without food or food collection tools). Just my 2 cents!
    Thurmond

    
Are you serious or just f-ing around?

    Quite serious. In my area where the relative humidity can be in the single digits static electricity can also render electronics useless either by locking up or the static charge killing them completely not to mention frequent and very close lightning strikes which are natures EMP.
    Thurmond 


    
I did not mean serious about EMP’s in general. I meant serious about you being ‘scared”, or as you would like to call it “prepared” that an EMP is going to be an issue.

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    Scrufhunter
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    I think maybe you need more technique and not some fancy dohicky to do it for you.  Thinking like this is what took the manual transmission out of the auto market….. You want the scope to do all the work for you, why bother? Take all the difficulty out of it, then what tell every one how great of a shot you are when all you do is pull the trigger?

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    kmd1984
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    “Scrufhunter”I think maybe you need more technique and not some fancy dohicky to do it for you.  Thinking like this is what took the manual transmission out of the auto market….. You want the scope to do all the work for you, why bother? Take all the difficulty out of it, then what tell every one how great of a shot you are when all you do is pull the trigger?

    
Can you please post a picture of yourself?! I always wonder how “these” people look like that say this shit?! I mean, seriously, who says crap like this? 
    Person: “Excuse me. Can you please tell me which way the ST. Regis is?”
    You: “I would never stay there. Too expensive!”
    Person: “Uhh, OK??? So you do not know which way it is?”
    You: “Oh no, I know, but why would you stay there?
    Person: “Who cares? Can you tell me where it is or not?”
    You: “I like turtles!”
    LOL

    All “jokes” aside. I am bringing up an idea, an innovation. Something that more and more Scope manufacturer actually starting to do, which is make Scopes “smarter”. And what is your response? Telling me that I need more technique??? Seriously, why would you say something like that? What makes you think that you have the slightest idea, how much technique I possess?! 

    “Thinking like this took the manual transmission out?”
    Really now? You do know that the rest of the world is manly driving manual, right? By mainly I mean over 80%, whereas in the US only 3% do. Wait! I am going to answer my own question… No, you do not know! Otherwise you would have not posted some stupid ass comment like that. Man, you are something else. 

    “You want the scope to do all the work for you, why bother?
    You are right. Why bother with a pcp airgun if you can use a springer?! Wait, even better. Why bother with a springer if you can use a spear? Makes totally sense.
    That said. I just keep wondering why keep bothering with using a computer and internet connection to get your point across? Isn’t that too easy? Isn’t that taking all the “work” out of it? You could have written a letter to airgunnation and just ask someone to post you comment for you?!

    Please, go ahead and have the last word. I am not going to bother to either read it or even reply to it. 

    Kmd

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    Saltlake58
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    OK, so maybe some of us are thinking like the Amish, we pick a time period and like to live in it.  I guess since Lewis and Clark had a PCP with them, I like to live in the early 1800’s.when it comes to shooting.

    ​I don’t begrudge someone having a thing like the Shadowtrax if they want it, but it does seem to take all the fun out of shooting, after all it is a skill.  However, if someone gets their fun out of hitting the bull every time, without fail, even if pointed the wrong direction, more power to them.  I’d probably buy it if I could afford it, just to say I own it.  but, to me that would take the fun out of the sport.

    ​After all, we’ve been looking for mechanical ways to improve our shooting for decades, and the FX Smooth Twist barrel is an example of an improvement in air guns that helps us hit the mark, so why not a scope with built in range finder, computer, and internal doping to take the scope out of the equation?  One could say that they are just automating something I do manually, so what’s the big deal?

    ​I guess my chosen position in time is the 20th Century.  Manual everything, but pretty good optics.  Even my wood working tools are geared for 19th and 20th century with hand saws and hand planes, and decidedly 20th century power tools.  I still get jealous of someone with the latest 21st century wood working gadget though.

    ​See, I’ve almost talked myself into working on something like this.  It is possible now with laser range finders, micro motors to control scope movements and ballistic calculators we never had before.  Interesting thought, could we even do it?  Smart phone interface to the scope computer.  Interesting thought.

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    kmd1984
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    ” OK, so maybe some of us are thinking like the Amish, we pick a time period and like to live in it.  I guess since Lewis and Clark had a PCP with them, I like to live in the early 1800’s.when it comes to shooting.”
    I am not from the US, so I guess I don’t really get this reference. : )

    “I don’t begrudge someone having a thing like the Shadowtrax if they want it, but it does seem to take all the fun out of shooting, after all it is a skill.  However, if someone gets their fun out of hitting the bull every time, without fail, even if pointed the wrong direction, more power to them.  I’d probably buy it if I could afford it, just to say I own it.  but, to me that would take the fun out of the sport.”
    I agree. Some like it this way, others like it that way. Nothing wrong that. There is also nothing wrong with having an opinion about it.
    However. I guess people are missing the point though. I am not looking to get something that takes the shooting out of shooting. I am looking for something that replaces an abacus with a calculator. If that makes any sense?! In other words:

    You have to answer some questions in a FAA exam. You can either use a manual flight computer such as the E6B or you can use an electronic one such as this one. No matter what you use, you have to still figure out what it is they want you to calculate. Once you figured it out, it doesn’t matter which flight computer you use. I personal prefer the electronic one over the manual one…

    Same goes for shooting. It does not matter if you want to use a rope, measuring tape, scope, laser range finder or what not, to measure the distance to your target. You still have to do it, right? Does using a laser range finder make it less fun, less of a sport or less skillful? I don’t think so. Measuring the distance is not taking the shot.

    “After all, we’ve been looking for mechanical ways to improve our shooting for decades, and the FX Smooth Twist barrel is an example of an improvement in air guns that helps us hit the mark, so why not a scope with built in range finder, computer, and internal doping to take the scope out of the equation?  One could say that they are just automating something I do manually, so what’s the big deal?”
    Dude! You nailed it! Seriously. This is exactly what I have been trying to say! I might have use your comment in the future as I could have never ever said it any better! Thank you! (Maybe I should have read your entire post before I started quoting and replying. LOL.

    ​I guess my chosen position in time is the 20th Century.  Manual everything, but pretty good optics.  Even my wood working tools are geared for 19th and 20th century with hand saws and hand planes, and decidedly 20th century power tools.  I still get jealous of someone with the latest 21st century wood working gadget though.”
    Nothing wrong with “Old School”, ha ha. 

    “​See, I’ve almost talked myself into working on something like this.  It is possible now with laser range finders, micro motors to control scope movements and ballistic calculators we never had before.  Interesting thought, could we even do it?  Smart phone interface to the scope computer.  Interesting thought.”
    Again, you totally get what I am trying to say!!! : ) YES, this can totally be done. Some are doing it already. MTC has the range tape, or whatever they call it, I forgot. BURRIS has the Eliminator III. It does all the calculating in the scope. There is also the PMR Smart Rifle Scope. Really nice! Not super cheap, but nice!

    One big aspect I forgot to mention is that I use my air rifle to 90% for pest control. Doing so, I need to make sure that each and every shot is a kill shot! Sitting there and having to “calculate” in between shots does not help. Anything that helps me place a shot more precise is welcomed. 

    Thanks for the great input! Really enjoyed it!

    Kmd

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    Saltlake58
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    OK, so I guess I better check member locations before I use local examples.  Amish are a religious sect that migrated from I believe the Swiss / German area of Europe to the United States in the 1800’s.  Their life style is locked firmly in the mid-1800’s with no electricity, and animal power for everything.  Yup, still plow with horses.  We would call it a very simple life style.  I don’t criticize them for their choices, I reserve the right to make the lifestyle choices, and mine are just different..

    Oh, and forgot to mention, Lewis and Clark, Corps of Discovery was dispatched from the east coast of the United States to explore to what would become the Oregon Coast in 1804 if I remember correctly.  They had a 24 ball repeater air gun with them, a PCP, that they used to impress the locals as they traveled and met those that might be hostile.  Yup, basic PCP’s have been around that long.  The Austrian Army used a PCP as standard issue in the late 1780’s.  Those were the time periods I was referring to.

    To be honest, your command of English really threw me, thinking you were from North America.  Your profile says Bali!!  Bali is on my bucket list to visit before I die.

    Your point on pesting is well taken.  The “Fun” of shooting is tempered with the reality of using an air gun to do a job.  I think what you are looking for will come in the next decade or two, but just isn’t here yet.  We’ll all keep watching for it.

     

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    kmd1984
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    “Saltlake58”OK, so I guess I better check member locations before I use local examples.  Amish are a religious sect that migrated from I believe the Swiss / German area of Europe to the United States in the 1800’s.  Their life style is locked firmly in the mid-1800’s with no electricity, and animal power for everything.  Yup, still plow with horses.  We would call it a very simple life style.  I don’t criticize them for their choices, I reserve the right to make the lifestyle choices, and mine are just different..
    Oh, and forgot to mention, Lewis and Clark, Corps of Discovery was dispatched from the east coast of the United States to explore to what would become the Oregon Coast in 1804 if I remember correctly.  They had a 24 ball repeater air gun with them, a PCP, that they used to impress the locals as they traveled and met those that might be hostile.  Yup, basic PCP’s have been around that long.  The Austrian Army used a PCP as standard issue in the late 1780’s.  Those were the time periods I was referring to.
    To be honest, your command of English really threw me, thinking you were from North America.  Your profile says Bali!!  Bali is on my bucket list to visit before I die.
    Your point on pesting is well taken.  The “Fun” of shooting is tempered with the reality of using an air gun to do a job.  I think what you are looking for will come in the next decade or two, but just isn’t here yet.  We’ll all keep watching for it.
     

    
I replied to this post for the most part in the PM I just sent you… : )

    Smart phone interface to the scope computer.” You mentioned this in an earlier post and I forgot to comment on it:

    I am not sure if you used Strelok before, but if you did, there are two feature that made me think.
    – One is the feature that allows you to use the phones camera, with a simple reticle on top, to see the angle you are shooting at.
    – The other feature is the one where after you calculated your hold-over, you can click on the reticle symbol, and your actual reticle shows up with a little dot of where the POI will be. I am sure you know what I am talking about?! I hope so. Anyhow. Those two features made me think:

    Why not combine them?

    You use your phones camera, which overlaps (or whatever the correct term is) your actual reticle with the live view! Now you have something like a HUD on your phone! Advantage is that you now have all in one. Ballistics calculator that will show you where the pellet will impact, including the ability to take a video of it. Just saying. 

    I actually contacted the guy from Strelok but he had no interest in doing that…

    Thanks,

    Kmd

     

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    Cayin
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    Repeatable precision in a small waterproof/resistant package that can handle a lot of recoil ,to be sellable in a wider market, still presents a lot of risk for a manufacturer.  Production cost vs profit, and would it be sellable enough at that price?
    It’s an interesting idea, someone just has to come up with a cost effective solution.

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    Saltlake58
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    Actually, I think most of this already exists in the Night Vision market.  it ain’t cheap, but if I remember correctly, one of our British counterparts tested some night sight equipment that was fully electronic and could be used on larger calibers.  The calibration consisted of moving the cross hairs to the point of impact and pushing a button.  It did range finding, and adjusted accordingly.  Just thought of this one a few minutes ago.  I’ll have to look, but it wasn’t that expensive, you know, under a couple thousand $$.

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    kmd1984
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    “Cayin”Repeatable precision in a small waterproof/resistant package that can handle a lot of recoil ,to be sellable in a wider market, still presents a lot of risk for a manufacturer.  Production cost vs profit, and would it be sellable enough at that price?
    It’s an interesting idea, someone just has to come up with a cost effective solution.

    
Good question. Question I do not have the answers to, ha ha. But hey, it is the thought that counts, right?
    You have to start somewhere… : )

    Thanks,

    Kmd

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    kmd1984
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    “Saltlake58”Actually, I think most of this already exists in the Night Vision market.  it ain’t cheap, but if I remember correctly, one of our British counterparts tested some night sight equipment that was fully electronic and could be used on larger calibers.  The calibration consisted of moving the cross hairs to the point of impact and pushing a button.  It did range finding, and adjusted accordingly.  Just thought of this one a few minutes ago.  I’ll have to look, but it wasn’t that expensive, you know, under a couple thousand $$.

    
Correct. There are a few scopes that already have some of those features I talked about, such as ballistics calculation, build in. So does the Burris Eliminator III and now the PMR Smart Rifle Scope. The issue I have is that none of them are “perfect”. The ATN is the cheapest, but it is all digital. I do not like that. I wish it was optical. Just like the Burris and PMR. On the other hand, it can record video and has build in night vision! Good news is that they also come out with a newer version of it [X-Sight] that addresses some of the issues users had with it, such as lousy zoom quality. 

    They should all steal a little bit from the other manufactures and make the “perfect” scope, ha ha. 

    Thanks,

    Kmd

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    Macros
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    “ShootistX”I am very familiar with what scopes do, thank you very much.
    There is no scope out there that is going to place your projectile, exactly where you want it , every time you want it there.
    No matter how good, or how automated the scope is, your limiting factor will be the ammunition, efficiency, and technique.
    As to a scope with sensors built in that automatically  dopes wind for you with a pellet. This is not going  to happen either.
    The wind is turbulence. What it’s doing in one place, its not doing in another.
    As to a scope with no reticle, unless you’re firing a laser guided pellet. That is not going to happen in yours or my lifetime, either.
    And my last point. There is already a scope that will do what you’re asking for. You can have it now. But it will cost you dearly. And it is not designed around a domed pellet with a very low ballistic coefficient.
    The package is sold as a unit and calibrated to that unit, in this case a 6.5mm creedmoor.
    It can be found here.

    SHADOWTRAX6


    Thank you for calling my reply , complete and utter nonsense.
     

    
Your bit about the scope and POI vs technique etc was never the point. Nobody is talking about the scope putting the pellet anywhere. The OP is just talking about having a built in rangefinder with and automated chairgun like adjustment on a gun, based on the same I forgot you input in whatever app you use.

    As for ‘no reticle’ I believe he means no need for a drop compensating reticle such as those we all use.

    Windage is always unpredictable and I don’t believe anyone ever said any differently.

    And lastly the tracking point stuff was brought up and discussed early in the thread. 

    Your post was not rubbish in and of itself, but thanks to your failure to read and bother to try understand what the OP was talking about it was of zero value.

    This is a light hearted thread about what could be. Honestly you come across as quite bitter.
     

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    kmd1984
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    “Macros”

     

    
Your bit about the scope and POI vs technique etc was never the point. Nobody is talking about the scope putting the pellet anywhere. The OP is just talking about having a built in rangefinder with and automated chairgun like adjustment on a gun, based on the same I forgot you input in whatever app you use.
    As for ‘no reticle’ I believe he means no need for a drop compensating reticle such as those we all use.
    Windage is always unpredictable and I don’t believe anyone ever said any differently.
    And lastly the tracking point stuff was brought up and discussed early in the thread. 
    Your post was not rubbish in and of itself, but thanks to your failure to read and bother to try understand what the OP was talking about it was of zero value.
    This is a light hearted thread about what could be. Honestly you come across as quite bitter.
     

    
Very well said. You totally get it. Thank you!

    Kmd

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    Goodtogo
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    ​I like this thread and since we are going light hearted there is a platform already that does everything the OP would like. ;)

    F-16 Fighting Falcon

    They are a little pricey but you don’t need a compressor.

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    kmd1984
    Participant
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    “Goodtogo”​I like this thread and since we are going light hearted there is a platform already that does everything the OP would like. ;)
    F-16 Fighting Falcon
    They are a little pricey but you don’t need a compressor.

    
An orchestra???

    Interesting… : )

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