I need something "smarter" than that…

Forums General Discussion I need something "smarter" than that…

  • Views : 2698
  • Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    This is the long version. For the short one, go to post #2.

    My rifle is not “smart” enough. Every time I change the power, caliber, or pellet, my POI changes. : ( . I hate that.

    I know that some scopes such as the Burris Eliminator III, the ATN X-Sight II, or the MTC Viper Pro are able to somewhat “deal” with the change in POI. 
    The Burris has a build in ballistics calculator, which allows you to calculate the ballistics of 10 thousands of bullets/Bullet setups. However, it does not focus below 100 meters, so pretty “useless” for most air gunners, including myself.

    The X-Sight II allows you to create many profiles, each with different parameters, which is great, and exactly what I would want. I.e. Profile 1: JSB Heavy, 930 fps, Power Setting 3… BUT, I am not a huge fan of having to look through a fancy “camcorder”, instead of a regular piece of glass. : )

    The MTC Viper tackles the Issue by allowing you change the “Turret Tape”. You can fit 2, if not 3 different “Zeroes” on to the tape, and also have multiple turret rings. However, having a Viper Pro myself, changing the rings on the go is a pain, and I do not recommend it. So its seems like each “method” has its up and downs, and/or some sort of limitation. 

    So here are my thoughs: Why let the scope deal with it, and not the rifle???

    Why not manufacture a rail that allows the scope to tilt “up and down”, compensating for pellet drop? The rail could either be part of the rifle, or sold separately. This way you can mount ANY scope you want, and you would be all set. : ). You pick a profile, the build in laser range finder measures the distance, the rail tilts up or down and BAM! You are always on target. 

    Ideally, the rifle also adjusts its power level based on what you shoot at, at what distance. So, if you are shooting paper at 30 meters, you probably want little power. If you shoot a rabbit at 30 meters, you probably want more power…

    That said. It is 2017. My entire home is “smart”. The scopes are getting smart. The guns are getting smarter. So why stop there???

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Kmd
        

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    Short Version:

    I would like a rifle that has a build in laser rangefinder and a build in rail that automatically adjusts for pellets drop/changes in point of impact. A rifle that is also able to change power settings based on my target and distance to my target. 

    Thanks,

    Kmd

    Link

    Windmill01
    Participant
    Member

    Kmd wouldn’t that take all the fun out of shooting an airrifle. There would be no challenge left. I don’t have a pcp and I still get a little bit bored shooting my LGV. Having something that accurate would only leave the wind to deal with. Now that’s another invention you could take into consideration.

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “Kmd wouldn’t that take all the fun out of shooting an airrifle.”

    I wouldn’t think so. I mean, you have to do all those ballistic calculations anyway. You either do them on your phone, in your head or look at a chart. So why not have the rifle do them with the push of a button!? I think that it would actually increase the fun, as you can now focus 100% on your target and not be distracted crunching hold over and things like that…

    “There would be no challenge left.”

    I believe shooting something 100 meters away is always a challenge. : )

    “Having something that accurate would only leave the wind to deal with. Now that’s another invention you could take into consideration.”

    I already thought about that, and I was going to bring it up, but then decided not to. I can see that my idea is already “too far fetched” for most people. You can tell by how many views this thread has, and how many people actually replied.  : )
    Anyhow. Build in Bluetooth whould allow you to connect to a weather station…

    Thanks,

    Kmd

    Link

    1BadDart
    Participant
    Member

      I don’t know that it’s “too far fetched”, with today’s technology it’s certainly possible. Speaking strictly for myself, but I like the simplicity of my two springer rifles. All I have to do is grab the rifle and pellets and head out. As far as holdovers I use mil dot scopes and Chairgun, it just takes a few minutes to set up on my phone or computer and a little fun time shooting to fine tune. After that just print off a card and enjoy.
     

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “I don’t know that it’s “too far fetched”, with today’s technology it’s certainly possible.”

    I meant that I believe people who read my thread probably think it is too far fetched. I do not think so at all. Actually, it would be pretty damn simply to make…

    “Speaking strictly for myself, but I like the simplicity of my two springer rifles. All I have to do is grab the rifle and pellets and head out.”

    I hear you… But I do not think that my idea would make it any less “simple”!? It would make it more easy. No dialing in your turret. No looking at your phone or chart. Changing caliber, power and pellets would never be easier…

    “As far as holdovers I use mil dot scopes and Chairgun, it just takes a few minutes to set up on my phone or computer and a little fun time shooting to fine tune. After that just print off a card and enjoy.”

    I agree again. That is how I do it, but I get tired of it. Like I said. We have all this tech around us, and I am just hoping that that same tech finds it way into our industry…

    thanks for the input.

    Kmd

    EDIT: I just like the idea of a gun where you not only have 3, 6 or who knows how many power settings, but an endless and “step-less” amount. The best part would be that the gun can adjust its power level on its own. It will know what you are shooting at and how far away it is,and then adjust power accordingly. Why shoot a rabbit at full power if 1/10 will be enough, given the perfect shot placement… Anyhow. I know that some day someone will come up with a gun like this… : )

     

    Link

    John_in_Ma
    Participant
    Member

    Likely because it’s already been done. I bet they can adopt a AG for their system. I would imagine a one off would be 2x the price of the production model. I can’t wait to see it.

    Home Page


     

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “John_in_Ma”Likely because it’s already been done. I bet they can adopt a AG for their system. I would imagine a one off would be 2x the price of the production model. I can’t wait to see it.

    Home Page


     

    
Thanks for pointing this out, but I have seen this already.

    The tracking point system is way more advanced than what I had in mind, and not necessary for the type of shooting I am doing. I am not trying to “track” or “follow” a target that moves around. Nor am I looking to be able to lock on to a target, or multiple targets for that matter, in a short amount of time, and then have the gun fire on its own.

    I just want to be able to look at a target and skip certain steps when it comes to calculating holdover. I would like to be able to just aim, press a button and pull the trigger. Regardless of what caliber, power setting or distance I am at.

    The ATN X-Sight II can almost do what I am looking for. You aim with the range finder, the range finder tells the scope what distance you are at, adjusts the hold over, and BAM. Since you can have different profiles, changing caliber, pellets, power and what not, is not an issue.

    However, the ATN is nothing but a video camera, and I do not like that. It also limits you to using the ATN, Obviously. My system would simple be either build in the gun already, or maybe even better, be sold as an add-on. Now people can use their own scope.

    Thanks,

    Kmd

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    I am sure that ATN will one day build the range finder in to the scope, and also make an optical/glass based X-Sight. Once they do that, I am going to be pretty happy with that. : )

    Kmd

    Link

    spysir
    Participant
    Member

    Old school used to work just fine for most people and I think it still can.
    EAW used to be THE airgun mount maker:
    http://www.eaw.de/en/products/pivot-mounts.html
    times do change tho.
    These days you might look at:
    https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=7272&ST=ERA-TAC%20Adjustable%20Inclination%20Mount%20w/%20Clamp

    Not quite a “no limit” mount but they work well if it suits your application.

    John

    Link

    AirSupply
    Participant
    Member

    Yep I’m with you Kdm. You do see a lot of posts about what you would like to see in the future but simple range calculation is what I’d like to see and the tech is there. 
    Your phone could be the computing power holding various profiles something  like StrelokPro (or exactly like) with a bluetooth connection to your smart scope. A tube within a tube able to be adjusted vertically or horizontally. 
    Very simple reticule. 
    A tube within a tube means it’s all contained within the scope. You are also always optically centred. 
    (As you would be with a rail)
    It could all be linked to a weapons mounted rangefinder or one within the scope like the Burris 
    Youd work out various profiles for different pellets or even barrel changes. Just bring up the profile and the scope auto adjusts to suit. 
    Michael
     

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “spysir”Old school used to work just fine for most people and I think it still can.
    EAW used to be THE airgun mount maker:
    http://www.eaw.de/en/products/pivot-mounts.html
    times do change tho.
    These days you might look at:
    https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=7272&ST=ERA-TAC%20Adjustable%20Inclination%20Mount%20w/%20Clamp
    Not quite a “no limit” mount but they work well if it suits your application.
    John

    
John,

    You did use a computer to post this, or not? If so, do not tell me about “Old school”… : )

    Those mounts you pointed out have nothing in common with what I am talking about. However, its the thought that counts, so thanks for that. : )

    Kmd

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

     

    
Double post…

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “AirSupply”Yep I’m with you Kdm. You do see a lot of posts about what you would like to see in the future but simple range calculation is what I’d like to see and the tech is there. 
    Your phone could be the computing power holding various profiles something  like StrelokPro (or exactly like) with a bluetooth connection to your smart scope. A tube within a tube able to be adjusted vertically or horizontally. 
    Very simple reticule. 
    A tube within a tube means it’s all contained within the scope. You are also always optically centred. 
    (As you would be with a rail)
    It could all be linked to a weapons mounted rangefinder or one within the scope like the Burris 
    Youd work out various profiles for different pellets or even barrel changes. Just bring up the profile and the scope auto adjusts to suit. 
    Michael
     
     

    
Sorry AirSupply, totally overlooked your post. Sorry about that… : )

    “Yep I’m with you Kdm. You do see a lot of posts about what you would like to see in the future but simple range calculation is what I’d like to see and the tech is there.”

    Yup, that is true. Isn’t that weird though? You would think that range calculation is one of the top topics when talking about guns?! But it isn’t? Anyhow. The tech is here for sure.

    “Your phone could be the computing power holding various profiles something  like StrelokPro (or exactly like) with a bluetooth connection to your smart scope. A tube within a tube able to be adjusted vertically or horizontally.”

    Believe it or not, I actually talked to the guy from Strelok and told him somewhat the same thing. I told him that it would be a good idea to combine the two. A scope and a phone. A lot of people use a phone to record video anyway. They also use the same phone to calculate the pellet drop/holdover. Not only that, many use the phones camera to determine the slope angle. When you do that. there is a reticle displayed on your phones screen. That made me think:
    Why not combine the slope angle feature with the feature where it shows you your reticle on a white background! Wouldn’t it make sense to combine the two and show you the “live” picture of your camera with your reticle displayed on top (on top as in a second layer)??? Common! That would make total sense!!!
    Anyhow, whenever I brought it up, he ignored my idea?!

    “It could all be linked to a weapons mounted rangefinder or one within the scope like the Burris 
    Youd work out various profiles for different pellets or even barrel changes. Just bring up the profile and the scope auto adjusts to suit. “

    I hear you and totally agree. There are many ways on how to do this. Actually, I suddenly see more and more companies come up with range calculating scopes! Take this for example:

    PMR 428 Smart Rifle Scope

    Looks pretty damn cool to me.I wish it would zero below 50 meters though, and have a build in range finder.

    ATN is also coming out with a new X-Sigh version. The X-Sight 4K Pro.

    https://www.atncorp.com/x-sight4k-pro-day-night-rifle-scope-5-20x

    The X-Sight is pretty much exactly what I would want from a “Smart Scope”. I know that in a few more years the scope will have a better camera chip in it, a laser range finder build in, and maybe even be optical, just like the Burris and the Revic.

    Anyhow, I am glad to see that something is happening. : )

    Thanks,

    Kmd

     

    Link

    ShootistX
    Spectator
    Spectator

    This is the long version. For the short one, go to post #2.

    My rifle is not “smart” enough. Every time I change the power, caliber, or pellet, my POI changes. : ( . I hate that.

    I know that some scopes such as the Burris Eliminator III, the ATN X-Sight II, or the MTC Viper Pro are able to somewhat “deal” with the change in POI.
    The Burris has a build in ballistics calculator, which allows you to calculate the ballistics of 10 thousands of bullets/Bullet setups. However, it does not focus below 100 meters, so pretty “useless” for most air gunners, including myself.

    The X-Sight II allows you to create many profiles, each with different parameters, which is great, and exactly what I would want. I.e. Profile 1: JSB Heavy, 930 fps, Power Setting 3… BUT, I am not a huge fan of having to look through a fancy “camcorder”, instead of a regular piece of glass. : )

    The MTC Viper tackles the Issue by allowing you change the “Turret Tape”. You can fit 2, if not 3 different “Zeroes” on to the tape, and also have multiple turret rings. However, having a Viper Pro myself, changing the rings on the go is a pain, and I do not recommend it. So its seems like each “method” has its up and downs, and/or some sort of limitation.

    So here are my thoughs: Why let the scope deal with it, and not the rifle???

    Why not manufacture a rail that allows the scope to tilt “up and down”, compensating for pellet drop? The rail could either be part of the rifle, or sold separately. This way you can mount ANY scope you want, and you would be all set. : ). You pick a profile, the build in laser range finder measures the distance, the rail tilts up or down and BAM! You are always on target.

    Ideally, the rifle also adjusts its power level based on what you shoot at, at what distance. So, if you are shooting paper at 30 meters, you probably want little power. If you shoot a rabbit at 30 meters, you probably want more power…

    That said. It is 2017. My entire home is “smart”. The scopes are getting smart. The guns are getting smarter. So why stop there???

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Kmd__))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    There are many things wrong with this.
    Scopes have nothing to do with change in poi.
    Projectile weight and its MV and/or its BC.
    The scope is the mean average for POI based on the above.

    Until you learn that screwing with velocities screws with scope settings, as well as trajectory, and drift, you will be spinning your wheels.
    You either want inherent accuracy, or you dont.

    Gun manufacturers dont need to engineer a riser rail into the gun.
    You can add a riser to the rail or you can add FX no limits rings.

    None of the ballistics of a pellet are going to be input into a scope that automatically calculates its trajectory.
    It can give you range as One of them such as the Burris, does that.

    The ballistics profile , however, is not going to be calibrated for a pellet.
    You do not need any of that mess anyway.

    As long as you are tinkering with velocity , you are tinkering with ballistic efficiency.
    There is no scope out there that will compensate for that. with 100% SD.

    You have eliminated the human factor in this, which is the real computer.
    The scope is a reference point, and that is all it is, or ever has been. From day one.

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    ShootistX,

    There are many things wrong with this.”
    Nothing wrong with what I said at all. Besides, I never claimed it be “true”! Just my opinion. However, what an interesting way of starting a reply to ones post. 

    Scopes have nothing to do with change in poi.”
    Really. Maybe you should read this article here, so you get a better understanding about what Turrets actually do.
    Quote, “Their objective is to change your bullet impact by using the reticle cross hairs to raise, lower, or move sideways for a true point of aim.” end quote…

    Gun manufacturers dont need to engineer a riser rail into the gun. You can add a riser to the rail or you can add FX no limits rings.”
    You missed my point entirely. I am talking about an automated riser/rail that moves the whole scope, instead of one using Turrets to raise, lower or move the Reticle around. That way scopes can be way less complicated and will/might not even require a Reticle any more in the future. 

    I read your reply the first time on my phone, and it made little sense to me. Now after reading it again on a computer, I have to say that not only makes it even less sense, but I am calling your reply complete and utter nonsense!

    Nonetheless, I appreciate your “input”.

    Thanks,

    Kmd

     

    Link

    AirSupply
    Participant
    Member

    Hi Kmd 
    No stress on late reply. I had a look at the PMR428. 
    It made me think it’s like a digital version of the Viper Pro that has the tape. How much easier would it be than mucking around with tape!
    Even if the scope only had the range come up inside on a heads up displayed and changed as you adjusted the turret and did no more it would be great. 
    You could download weather ect into strelok so it’s all up to date then just transfer the info via Bluetooth to your scope. So the scope doesn’t need to calculate anything just have the correct range for each click of the turret. 
    Yes you’d still have to range your target but still Very simple.  You wouldn’t have to change tapes just upload a different lot of digital info. 
    Cant imagine it would even be that expensive to manufacture. 

     

    Link

    T3PRanch
    Participant
    Member

    Although a cool idea ….. One EM Pulse and all the electronic’s stop dead. I guess my old Boy Scout motto of “be prepared” (and the current World Political Climate) keeps me from liking any electronic controls that could stop working and render my gun useless (I can live without electronics but not without food or food collection tools). Just my 2 cents!

    Thurmond

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “AirSupply”Hi Kmd 
    No stress on late reply. I had a look at the PMR428. 
    It made me think it’s like a digital version of the Viper Pro that has the tape. How much easier would it be than mucking around with tape!
    Even if the scope only had the range come up inside on a heads up displayed and changed as you adjusted the turret and did no more it would be great. 
    You could download weather ect into strelok so it’s all up to date then just transfer the info via Bluetooth to your scope. So the scope doesn’t need to calculate anything just have the correct range for each click of the turret. 
    Yes you’d still have to range your target but still Very simple.  You wouldn’t have to change tapes just upload a different lot of digital info. 
    Cant imagine it would even be that expensive to manufacture. 
     

    
Exactly. Agree with everything you said.
    I had the Viper Pro for a while, but I never really made a “correct” tape for it. Too much fuzzing around. I also never liked the fact that it has 1/4 MOA play in the top turret. Maybe they change the design of the gear box a little bit and that play will go away?! The little set screws are pain as well, and they started to also leave a mark, so now you Zero spot is a little bit off. Anyhow. there are more and more scopes coming out with a ballistics calculator of some sort build in, so I am excited about that.

    Thanks for the input,

    Kmd

    Link

    kmd1984
    Participant
    Member

    “T3PRanch”Although a cool idea ….. One EM Pulse and all the electronic’s stop dead. I guess my old Boy Scout motto of “be prepared” (and the current World Political Climate) keeps me from liking any electronic controls that could stop working and render my gun useless (I can live without electronics but not without food or food collection tools). Just my 2 cents!
    Thurmond

    
Are you serious or just f-ing around?

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 38 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.