HW97, the long and short of it
- Thread starter JohnnyPiston
- Start date
Dual mag Mike...I just want to know if you have any room for another child/dependant? If so I'm moving in
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Fairly new to the air gun game, but so far have gone through several of the cheaper guns, and most recently purchased a Sig ASP20.
I'm Not at all ready to go the PCP route, simply due to the added expense/requirement for all the "support gear". Prior to purchasing the Sig, I had asked for recommendations for a Sping or Piston gun, with my primary objective being accuracy.
Many people recommended the 97, but at the time, everywhere I looked, it was significantly more money than the Sig. Long story short, I purchased the Sig, and have been extremely impressed with it.
My instincts tell me that a fixed barrel would be more accurate than a break barrel, but after shooting this Sig for the past month (I've put about 800 rounds through it), it's really difficult for me to image that the 97 could be more accurate.... and since the 97 is approx 2X the money of the Sig, Without trying to stir up a hornet's nest....... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around why? I guess more than anything, I'm asking what makes the 97 worth me spending approx double the money of the Sig?? Right now, I'm too new to airguns to have any preconceived notions of "brand loyalty", or "favoritism" to any one or the other.....just trying to educate myself.
I'm Not at all ready to go the PCP route, simply due to the added expense/requirement for all the "support gear". Prior to purchasing the Sig, I had asked for recommendations for a Sping or Piston gun, with my primary objective being accuracy.
Many people recommended the 97, but at the time, everywhere I looked, it was significantly more money than the Sig. Long story short, I purchased the Sig, and have been extremely impressed with it.
My instincts tell me that a fixed barrel would be more accurate than a break barrel, but after shooting this Sig for the past month (I've put about 800 rounds through it), it's really difficult for me to image that the 97 could be more accurate.... and since the 97 is approx 2X the money of the Sig, Without trying to stir up a hornet's nest....... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around why? I guess more than anything, I'm asking what makes the 97 worth me spending approx double the money of the Sig?? Right now, I'm too new to airguns to have any preconceived notions of "brand loyalty", or "favoritism" to any one or the other.....just trying to educate myself.
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Ok....that makes some sense. Personally, I I'd go for the non thumbhole version, and would also prefer synthetic stock (carry over from my military days/training) I guess more specifically, is the accuracy and shootability that much better that it demands double the money?? I've searched around the net for a head to head comparison of the 97 and ASP20..... but all I've heard is "it's in the pipe" or "coming soon". I didn't realize the Sig was that new as I've seen reviews dated a year+ ago. Hmmm. Many Thanks!
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Mike, It's no wonder all those old beauties are hard to find, you bought them all! Lol
R1 with its cousin
R1 with its cousin
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As many things are personal preference and or experience dictate things, however if you have never tried a thumbhole stock on a particular rifle I'd suggest to try it. Much more ergonomic for me and puts my hand in a very comfortable and natural position vs standard. As far as accuracy goes look and see how many are using the 97 for matches as an indicator. As for the synthetic stock they are pretty awful compared to wood in terms of resonant noise through the stock from the action but will be better if you are in the woods in terms of being more durable against scratching and moisture. Many are cramming materials into the butt stock to reduce the noise and vibration, I'm one of them.
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Another draw to the 77/97 platform is the ability to tune and make the gun just how you want it...after market parts and a multitude of tune kits to take power up or down for what ever you intend to use it for!
The trigger is another big draw to the 97...record trigger is in a class of its own!
James from Michigan
The trigger is another big draw to the 97...record trigger is in a class of its own!
James from Michigan
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Now things are starting to come together! I've tried/used many thumbhole stocks, and just never cared for them versus traditional stocks. Again, that's likely all those years with my cheek pressed against a traditional stock. 
That is something I had not considered!! There's a gas piston in the Sig, and a spring in the 97! Although the Sig stock is unlike any other synthetic I've seen.... it feels/sounds like it's solid....or nearly so. I can image there would be a LOT of noise with a spring/synthetic stock combo. I too have filled a couple of synthetic stocks with foam....but those were gas piston guns. Wonder how effective that might be on a spring gun with a synthetic stock?
Now, that makes a ton of sense! I looked around, and there are a ton of mods out there for the 97. I would assume that the Sig is too new for any mods/parts yet.
I might have wrecked myself early on.... the first three guns I purchased were gas pistons, and although the accuracy was horrible, they shot fairly well. I then purchased a Diana 34.... and frankly hated it. Compared to the gas piston guns, it was terribly "twangy" and seemed to "vibrate" for several seconds after firing. Granted it was factory.....but it did make an impression, and possibly even created a bit of bias against spring guns.
Again, Many Thanks for your insights.....glad you folks are willing to share your knowledge!!
That is something I had not considered!! There's a gas piston in the Sig, and a spring in the 97! Although the Sig stock is unlike any other synthetic I've seen.... it feels/sounds like it's solid....or nearly so. I can image there would be a LOT of noise with a spring/synthetic stock combo. I too have filled a couple of synthetic stocks with foam....but those were gas piston guns. Wonder how effective that might be on a spring gun with a synthetic stock?
Now, that makes a ton of sense! I looked around, and there are a ton of mods out there for the 97. I would assume that the Sig is too new for any mods/parts yet.
I might have wrecked myself early on.... the first three guns I purchased were gas pistons, and although the accuracy was horrible, they shot fairly well. I then purchased a Diana 34.... and frankly hated it. Compared to the gas piston guns, it was terribly "twangy" and seemed to "vibrate" for several seconds after firing. Granted it was factory.....but it did make an impression, and possibly even created a bit of bias against spring guns.
Again, Many Thanks for your insights.....glad you folks are willing to share your knowledge!!
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Thought I would throw this in the mix. HW77 Venom .22 cal 1985 production stamped Hull Cartridge. You don't see many of these in North America
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gonzav71
Member
Ed,
https://www.krale.shop/en/weihrauch-hw97-black-line/ Krale (Netherlands) sells the HW97K synthetic stock for $364. Add $40 UPS shipping. You can get one for $404 shipped less than a week. I ordered the nickel plated version and got it in 5 days to my door step. If you follow Johnny Piston's posts about HW97, you will see the extreme accuracy potential from this proven platform at longer distances +50 yards.
Acording to SIG, the ASP20 was never designed to be modified. If you do, you will void the warranty. Here is a review by Hector Medina on the ASP 20. https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-sig-sauer-asp20-a-powderburners-airgun Anyways, enjoy shooting your ASP20. Try shooting it at longer distances. I am sure it perform just fine for you.
Stay safe and healthy,
Leo
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I just recently was directed to Kral through another individual.....had never heard of them til then.
Forgive me, as I'm fairly new to the airgun world, I assume that Mr. Media is a prominent figure?
I read that article, and got the distinct impression that although he was trying to sound nice, he was "looking down his nose" at the Sig. It also seemed to me that he was implying that unless you can tweak and customize an airgun, it isn't worth owning. That begs the question..... if a person where to purchase a 97, and then tweak and customize it.... would the warranty still be intact? Absolutely no disrespect intended..... I'm just trying to wrap my head around things, and trying to decide if the 97 is something I'd purchase or not.
Again, my thanks for indulging my questions and curiosity.
Forgive me, as I'm fairly new to the airgun world, I assume that Mr. Media is a prominent figure?
I read that article, and got the distinct impression that although he was trying to sound nice, he was "looking down his nose" at the Sig. It also seemed to me that he was implying that unless you can tweak and customize an airgun, it isn't worth owning. That begs the question..... if a person where to purchase a 97, and then tweak and customize it.... would the warranty still be intact? Absolutely no disrespect intended..... I'm just trying to wrap my head around things, and trying to decide if the 97 is something I'd purchase or not.
Again, my thanks for indulging my questions and curiosity.
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As received, fresh out of the box. It never once dieseled (was actually lubed with restraint compared to others I've seen). Was doing 930 with 8.4s IIRC.
Totally transformed now.
Good velocity! That's right at where my RWS 34 is with the JSB 8.44 gr.
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Ed,
Re: pricing Leo gave some solid info (I also purchase directly from Krale). The 97 is a great platform to build upon, and since accuracy is your primary objective eventually you'd want to replace the stock internals with an aftermarket tune kit or have custom made, tighter tolerance fitting guides.
Address the powerplant, the trigger, use a quality scope, find the best pellet, balance the stock for your specific hold/shooting application and with consistent technique the 97k should not hold you back or prevent you from achieving your primary objective of accuracy. It should be consistent as well, especially if you don't have breech seal/sealing issues and have a good compression tube without flat spots.
Regarding whether or not the warranty would be voided if you were to open the action and or modify the factory supplied internals in any way, I recommend you research the company's policy. I will say this, depending on the nature of the issue and who you buy the rifle from, they may or may not be able to work with you towards a solution.
I've never shot the SIG ASP20, but have seen some favorable reviews. I do have some Theoben gas rammers and enjoy shooting them. My break barrel Theoben Evolutions in .177 and .22, at 25 yards, with excellent technique are as accurate as my fixed barrel SLR 98's, but the fixed barrel SLRs are capable of smaller groups from 45-55 yards.
Hope this helps,
J
Re: pricing Leo gave some solid info (I also purchase directly from Krale). The 97 is a great platform to build upon, and since accuracy is your primary objective eventually you'd want to replace the stock internals with an aftermarket tune kit or have custom made, tighter tolerance fitting guides.
Address the powerplant, the trigger, use a quality scope, find the best pellet, balance the stock for your specific hold/shooting application and with consistent technique the 97k should not hold you back or prevent you from achieving your primary objective of accuracy. It should be consistent as well, especially if you don't have breech seal/sealing issues and have a good compression tube without flat spots.
Regarding whether or not the warranty would be voided if you were to open the action and or modify the factory supplied internals in any way, I recommend you research the company's policy. I will say this, depending on the nature of the issue and who you buy the rifle from, they may or may not be able to work with you towards a solution.
I've never shot the SIG ASP20, but have seen some favorable reviews. I do have some Theoben gas rammers and enjoy shooting them. My break barrel Theoben Evolutions in .177 and .22, at 25 yards, with excellent technique are as accurate as my fixed barrel SLR 98's, but the fixed barrel SLRs are capable of smaller groups from 45-55 yards.
Hope this helps,
J
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Here's a short video I made yesterday. Different rifle (HW97k .177 in blue laminate stock), same custom powerplant. One shot on a 1/2" KZ at 30 yards using JSB Express 7.9 gn.
https://youtu.be/kHW32VmXK9g
The rifle (pic from last week) minus the Wheeler anti-cant level and magnetic clip-on Nautilus style sidewheel.
https://youtu.be/kHW32VmXK9g
The rifle (pic from last week) minus the Wheeler anti-cant level and magnetic clip-on Nautilus style sidewheel.
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MAN!! Can't thank you enough! I've learned more on a single thread here....then in several months of crawling the web! I asked similar questions on another airgun forum, and you'd have thought I called someone's Mom a bad name. I got raked up one side and down the other. This forum has been welcoming and understanding from day one..... and I very much appreciate that!!
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