Huge difference in fall between 2 pellets

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Mathias

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Jun 17, 2016
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Hey guys,

I have begun using a Chinese-made Ruger (Blackhawk Elite) to control pests. I have put a good scope on it. It's rated at 1200 fps for lighter pellets.

I initially used a 7.5 grain pellet - a gamo pro-magnum, and was not happy with the accuracy - I was getting regular outliers on the targets, as much as an inch away from bullseye at 12 yards.

So I bought some 10.6 grain H&N Barracuda Match pellets, sighted it in after shooting low... and still saw the outliers!

So - this may be of some interest to some - i did some learning on the factors of accuracy, and the first thing I tried was what some call the "artillery hold" - effectively the soft-hands approach to let the rifle kick vibrate and jump how it likes to. Instant effect! Very tight groups, 5/6 pellets were inside a 1/4 inch circumference.

BUT what has me really surprised, is that when going back to the lighter Gamo pellets I also got a very tight group - but a full half-inch higher!? Over 12 yards that seems like a lot of lost velocity - I don't think the pellet has enough time to drop that much, let alone for there to be that much difference..

Any body here who can enlighten me? I'm leaning towards this being an effect of the kickback rather than the pellet fall... but it's not making much sense right now!
 
That rifle needs torn down, clean and inspect the stock bolts and barrell pivot. Reassemble using Blue Loctite. mine really loves Crosman Premier Hollow Points readily available at Walmart. Takes a few hundred shots to come into its own.

I can take free hand shots at 40 yards and drop a squirrell all day. I love this rifle and you will too. My barrell pivot bolt was finger loose when I inspected it. Oh, and the c clip for the cocking arm fell out. I replaced it with a c clip from my Traxxas Slash bolt kit....

Follow this video..... I followed kennys advice and found everything he said to be true. I am no expert, but I feel this rifle shoots very straight with very minimal drop especially when compared to my 22 Nitro that seems to lob pellets.

 
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Excellent advice, thanks for taking the time there. I'll go get some loctite and sort it out.. my clip for the cocking arm must have been missing or defectivefrom factory, because my pin fell out after shooting only about 40 pellets! Shoddy. That caused me to take the thing apart somewhat in order to fix it.

EDIT - the same screws holding the breech were loose on mine, I never checked that! I'm glad to learn I can improve the gun.

Regarding the different rates of fall between the two weights of pellet, does a half-inch of fall difference over 12 yards sound excessive? The 10.65 grain pellets are about 40% heavier, and probably causes a drop of 1050fps to 800fps..

I swear I am getting tight groups now, just the two pellets make groups at differing heights..

Cheers
Matt
 
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EDIT - after pulling apart, applying loctite and tightening things up - it definitely felt like s different, more solid gun straight away. And the heavy pellets were shooting higher straight away, higher than the light pellets used to in comparison! Crazy.

I'm going to sight it back in with the heavy pellets, then see how the light ones compare.

I can only assume that I'm powered right back up again, extremely happy that i received your advice! Thanks

Matt
 
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Your welcome Matt, glad I could help ya.

That Ruger makes really good speed and Ft lbs of energy (around 16 I think) with pellets in the 7 gr weight range. Me personally I use this for fairly long shots and dont feel like dealing with the drop associated with heavier pellets. I have never tried anything other than off the shelf Crosman pellets. luckily this rifle LOVES Crosman Premier Hollow Points that are readily available at Walmart. I tried the Crosman Destroyer EX, Pointed, and Wadcutters without great results.

I made the mistake of trying to dial in the scope while using the Pointed pellets from Crosman (very loose fitting in barrell) and this caused me to miss a 40 yard shot today with the Premier Hollow Points.( missed and hit 2 inches low) I will be taking some time next week to redial in my scope with the Premier Hollow Points and will never stray from using them again.
 
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Just to follow up - since working over the gun, I seem to have a tighter grouping with the lighter Gamos, and I think they are both shooting a lot higher - so must be more power. It sounds different too, which makes me worry that if air was escaping at the breech then I've been half-dry firing!?

Any case the heavier pellets have a lot bigger spread. So big that it's hard to confirm whether that half inch drop is still there, although it seems so. I bought those heavier pellets because of a review that said this gun liked this pellet..!

Interesting there is the same diagonal pattern to both. My gun must be kicking around like that. Not sure what I can do to mitigate that?

I'm going to try those hollow points! Thanks again

- Matt




 
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Would you still think they were good groups if I said I was only 11 yards away? Ha. That's the furtherest I can get on our section.

Couple of fliers per group but I'm still working to completely standardise the way i hold the gun. Leaving the front arm loose, the trigger-hand grip loose, while still anchoring the stock on my shoulder. It certainly leaps around when set up on sandbags with nothing holding the stock. Also I'm still hoping the gun is wearing in as per the video you linked.

One thing I will say about the gamo pellets - there are regularly pellets that slip too easily into the breach. Maybe 1 or 2 per 10.

I'll certainly follow up with results from the crosman hollows. I've had to order them into my town so it will be next week.
 
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OK - crosman compared with gamo as requested.

So another piece of tweaking I did - the o-ring sealing the breach was sitting too flush. As a test I cut out a ring of very thin cardboard to get the ring protruding at all. The effect? It's noticeably 'crackier' - a sharper sound. I am sure this is a good thing, the kick-back feels tighter and less vibration. However this tweak appears to have made my Gamos less accurate!? And now the heavier pellets are more accurate!

After these surprising events, it seemed a good time to start using the Crosman hollow points. These things are amazingly consistent! They are my pellet of choice without a shadow of a doubt. I can't thank you enough for getting me on the right path with this gun - it's super consistent since giving it a workover and switching to the crosman pellets.

The shots were taken from a measly 11 yards again, and shows how the gamos went to crap after giving the gun some TLC.. but you get the idea.

5 shots in each, but you can only see 4 holes on the right..

 
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Good to hear!

I absolutely love my Ruger Blackhawk Elite with Crosman Premier Hollow Points. I have been plinking my other 177 pellets away and once they are gone I will only have a tin of the Crosman Premier Hollow Points on my bench.

In one of the videos I watched Kenny (myairgunreviews) said he replaced his breech seal as you mentioned you tried a fix on. When he replaced this seal he said he gained about 50 FPS and the extreme spread narrowed signifigantly. This replacement he said was due to the way the rifle was packaged with a piece of card board in between the barrel and breech, crushing the o ring and damaging it. They have since changed how they package this rifle and no longer do that. mine did not require a seal replacement as it was not packaged in that manner.

I have been wondering if there is a aftermarket seal readily available or if we must buy them from Ruger? Maybe someone else can answer this for us.
 
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Yeah I got the idea to check the o-ring from Kenny. The seal really was very flush... to be honest I would say that the recess was a touch too deep for the o-ring. The o-ring had very slightly flattened, and I believe that was enough for the seal to become insufficient.

As cheap and nasty as it sounds/is - cutting out a piece of very thin, dense cardboard to sit behind the o-ring has worked very well. If it does perish and/or flatten out, I will try some gasket paper next. I will let you know if I ever see any detrimental effects to the ring..
 
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Matt, I just wanted to follow up and give ya some info. I had some Crosman Pointed pellets7.4 Gr that were top performers in my NPS TR77 So I gave em a try in my Ruger again. It hates them. They fit so loosely in the barrel they can actually fall thru it or just fall in about 1/4 inch when loaded.! So, back to the trusty Crosman Premier Hollow Points for this one.

Have I mentioned that I love this Blackhawk?
 
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Yeah it seems pretty fussy all right, I found that I needed to be quite consistent in how I held it as well. I'm never looking back from those crosman hollow points, I've ordered a bunch more tins to stay stocked up :)

The gun feels so much better since giving it a workover, solid and quiet, and I haven't missed any varmints since switching ammo as well. Very happy. And yep I love the gun too, for sure!
 
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These are some sample groups from my NPS TR77. All aimed at bullseye, from a rest at 20 yards for testing purposes. Its still new and breaking in, and i am still learning this one. Basically this shows how different styles of pellets fly when aimed at the same spot. I am on the fence about of I am gonna dial in my NPS TR77 on the HP or Pointeds. I did stack 3 HP on each other pretty decent, and hit one bullseye with em. The pointeds put down a nice string as well, but never stacked any.

Crosman Wadcutters
Crosman Pointed
Crosman Premier Hollow Points
 
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Had a few minutes today, figured I would use up these Wadcutters. Geez, these pellets suck so bad I am just gonna throw em away. Switch back to Crosman Premier Hollow Points and 5 bullseyes in a row.......I think I have decided to stick with the Crosman Premier Hollow Points on both my Ruger and NPS TR77, as well as in my 22 cal Nitro Venom. No need to have all these extra tins laying around, when none of them perform as well as the Crosman Premier Hollow Points.
 
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Haha yeah I've ordered 4 tins (still waiting for them though..) - those Crosmans are all I'll need. They really do severe damage on the pests too.. it's good to know that death will be quick for them.

I am finding that I need to hold the Ruger Blackhawk a certain way. I have to hook the stock tightly into my shoulder, and leave the front hand loose. It jumps around far too much even just sitting on sandbags with nothing holding the stock.

Do you find that?

Cheers
Matt
 
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I think I always have a habit of holding tight against my shoulder, and the fore grip. I dunno how accurate this is, as its just a habit and I havent conciously made an effort to change holds and do groupings to confirm what works best as far as holds go. I have however missed 2 somewhat easy shots recently, which is odd as I can spin my targets like a type writer at 13 yards. I think the fact i have been trying the NPS TR77 lately my skills have adjusted to that model. I will be doing a bench rest session, followed by moving my spinners out to 20 yards to adjust to that distance as its closer to my normal target range.

I gave the Crosman "Competition" Wadcutters away last night to my buddy who uses them in his Crosman 1377

 
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I am gonna give the Crosman Ultra Magnums a try, basically they are a heavyweight version (10 Gr approximately vs 7.9 Gr) of the hollow point, without the drilled hollow point end. Supposed to fit the same as the Crosman Premier Hollow Points but be well suited for anything that is in the 1000 plus FPS region. Both the Ruger and my NPS qualify for that and the lower DB rating from a heavier pellet coupled with increased accuracy and muzzle energy would be an added bonus.
 
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