Huben Hammerless K1

Forums PCP Airguns Huben Hammerless K1

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    wlbryce
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    Having shot over 13  types of pellets out of the K1 to date I guess we will soon find out. I think that a true “slug” projectile with a boat tail configuration will solve this issue.
    The gun works more like a firearm than a airgun in regards to the firing configuration.  Air is taking place of expanding burning powder, think like a revolver handgun.

    I might be proved wrong, but I am thinking not, everyone has flyers, im sure the K1 is no diffrent. We will soon know.

     

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    RiverDevil
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    “aaronchow”

    “louis40”wlbryce, if i did not change my mind on Huben it’s because of your reviews.. Thanks for your trials on it and keep us updated..
    Also, if you are in contact with Huben manufacturers, tell them to move their butts and start sending the pieces..

    Cheers..

    
Unfortunately,my last 2 posts were deleted by the moderator. My chinese friend(the insider) told me that the manufacturer failed to improve the accuracy with the new customized JSB pellets. You will have to wait until this gun is ok,that’s to say, another several months.

    From my friend’s point of view, the unstable accracy and too many flyers totally result from the design defect rather than what sort of pellets it shoots. 

    The design defects were spotted by the manufacturer at least 2 years ago. I don’t think Huben will make it.

     

    
I won’t be shocked with such news.
    As I know,the model of huben was made in about 2010,and it is illegal at that time because it was just someone’s secret toy(Airgun is forbidon in China since about 1998).
    Then some “smart” people started to think about how to make money with it,then at last,the agent got it.
    The testing result is not satisfied.
    Though a person(maybe the project manager of HUBEN) said that he can shoot it much better than the agent(in the video on youtube????).
    And what strange is that he admitted Huben was now looking for a suitable pellet to fit the system of blowing pellets into the barrel.
    And I want to ask:
    What does the advertisment of huben on youtube mean???
    It shows us that it can ues 2 kind of pellets(maybe more…) and it does show us the accuray of it,the CTC at 50 yards(maybe meters)is not perfect but good,and the most important thing is it had no flyers.
    Obviously,there were no fools who will show us a bad shooting group of it.
    So,according to the accuracy of now:
    Can I wonder if it is a misleading advertising???
    And,is somebody who made the video and put it on the youtube honest???
    I do exactly hate spurious advertisment and I was shamed and angry with it because of I am Chinese.
    And at last I want to say:
    If it goes down but not accurate and each-10-group has a big flyer,what is the significance of being rare? 

     

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    aaronchow
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    Riverdevil,

    Thanks for your sharing.
    I know there is a great number of airgun players in China. Have you or your Chinese friends ever shot Huben K1?
    Please tell us more about this gun. 

    So far on this forum, we can only hear from an american guy who received a testing sample. 

    We are really looking forward to an independent review of K1 from China.

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    Lbl25a
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    For those used to firing airguns it is almost a given that one must carefully select a suitable pellet to match the barrel before the best accuracy can be obtained. However with the Huben when we are approaching rimfire powers the considerations may be different. Many years ago before I was reduced to playing with airguns I used to shoot smallbore competitions quite seriously and to be competitive in shooting the Dewar Course at 25, 50 and 100 yards one had to be able to rely on a smallbore rifle that would shoot sub half inch groups at 100 yards without any flyers.
    The mounting and/or bedding of the barrel was as important as the rifling. Although many competitors preferred Anschutz my personal rifle was the Walther KKM which had a fully floating bull barrel and I always believed that the heavier barrel gave it an advantage over the Anschutz.
    When looking at the Huben in comparison with a serious target rifle I was struck by the small diameter of the barrel and the relatively low mass of the alloy casting in which it is mounted.
    I rather hope that I will be proved wrong but I now doubt that such a design is capable of the accuracy that I would want at 100 yards regardless of the pellet used.

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    aaronchow
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    “wlbryce”Having shot over 13  types of pellets out of the K1 to date I guess we will soon find out. I think that a true “slug” projectile with a boat tail configuration will solve this issue.
    The gun works more like a firearm than a airgun in regards to the firing configuration.  Air is taking place of expanding burning powder, think like a revolver handgun.

    I might be proved wrong, but I am thinking not, everyone has flyers, im sure the K1 is no diffrent. We will soon know.

     

    My friend shot the so called “true slug projectiled with a boat tail ” two years ago and the accuracy was not stable enough.  The manufacturer has been working on this problem for more than 2 years. 

    However, Lbl25a can prove my source is ture, because I sent him a message 7 weeks ago telling him the patent number of K1 which he had been looking for.

    MOD EDIT: aaronchow some of your content was removed because it was unproductive. If you don’t have first hand experience, then stop telling people they are wrong. Let the OP share his results.

     

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    Dt9290
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    Guys, can we move on from this tedious back and forth? I’d hate for the moderators to lock this thread. I want updates on the accuracy issue (in God I trust; all others bring data) . Show me the DATA ( pictures of groupings will always be appreciated, also links to independent reviews). Personal stuff, just do it in PMs.
    thank you 

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    wlbryce
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    I for one prefer testing and personal experience over conjecture and guessing. Until I have proved it wrong by shooting the gun myself I will not make such verbose and grand declarations. DATA, DATA,and DATA is needed, so Ill post plenty of photos!

    With my background I do find it fitting and funny that the gun I have chosen to review, is surrounded in multi continent controversy and drama. This would include fraud, and international espionage!! Who would have ever thought an airgun would bring such a heated debate to include the mysterious Mr  HD MASTER!

    ​Cant wait until I get the Piledrivers so I can see what is next!

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    Dt9290
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    Can I revisit pellet speed for a moment? Inthe case of the round-nose Diabolo pellets, what fps are these being shot at? I ask because I only know of the Edgun shooting that pellet accurately at up to 940 fps (Talon Forums/Bullpups/Edgun).
    thank you

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    wlbryce
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    I never shot them lower than 950 fps.

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    wlbryce
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    I received a call from AOA today and the .22 cal Piledrivers are no longer available. 

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    Dt9290
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    bryce, would you be willing to try reducing the speed of those round-nose diabolo pellets to around 900~920 fps? I’m curious to see how they’d perform in that speed range. Also, for reference I have some 13.43grains JSB Monsters. You know the shape. These shot with terrible accuracy in the low-800 fps but performed really well at closer to 900 fps (24 fpe). The gun was a Daystate Harrier, and could toss the 10.65 grains H&N Barracuda at 950fps (20+fpe), but the best speed for accuracy was just above 900 fps, and that was <.5″ at 50 yards. So each pellet likes it’s own speed, and is worth looking for with regard to accuracy.

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    rockymtbiker
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    Wlbryce, I mentioned this in a previous post and you never responded, so I’ll repeat the offer:  I have some of the Promethius Piledrivers and would be happy to send you a few just to test your theory.  PM me if you’re interested.

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    wlbryce
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    I have ordered another assortment of pellets to try, who knows what I will find! should be an interesting experiment. 
    If the weather stays like it is it will be Cold!

    I had some custom rounds made but they are .0005 ” to large in Dia. so .223 ” is max on the magazine. The rounds had a slight taper (draft) up to .2235 and would only go in half way.
     Just thinking out loud, the air is injected direct to the rear of the round the magazine acts like the “Chamber” and the barrel is a micro groove un-choked. That is more like a firearm than a typical airgun. So possibly Lbl25a is correct and it is a support or harmonics issue? Uncharted ground for me.

    It has been suggested that the K1 has an design flaw that keeps it from shooting accurate at long ranges, if that is the case then WHAT is the flaw?

    There is not much to choose from in the pellet area when going above 25 Grains!

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    RiverDevil
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    aaronchow:
    Sorry,I don’t have friends who ever shot the K1.

    But I ever saw a video showing the Huben shot at about 50m at home several years ago by HD Master(real
    nick name is heyday) or
    someone else,the accuracy of the group is not good.The group is over 3cm I guess,looks a bit big.

    And also a video of the first model of testing the trigger and the pellets supplying system in the factory.

    That was a long time ago,a lot more than 2 years(maybe 4~5years) ,I think they have already found the accuracy issure is hard to control,but they still try to solve it because they have spent a lot of money for it(they claimed about millions RMB including the scientific researching ,patent costing etc).

    The results now seems to be a joke that they claimed they were still trying to find one kind of pellet to suit the system even though they asked JSB to make a custom type for huben in 2015,that does mean 5 years passed and the accuracy problem is still existing.

    What I can’t endure is that they’ve not solved the deadly accuracy problem,how dare they put the advertisment video on youtube to catch our eyes on it.

    If it is a homemade PCP just for fun,I won’t blame anything of it,but it tends to be a commodity so any of who was interested in it can speak out what he doesn’t like or the other side.

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    Lbl25a
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    I hope that nothing that I have said is regarded as destructive criticism of the K1 as I would really like it to succeed. That would prove what I have been trying to tell the cognoscenti in UK for years, namely that the future of airguns lies not in the old fashioned Giffard hammer valve but in a hammerless valve of the kind pioneered by Sharp in Japan and Gerald Cardew in UK.
    Now Mr.Ling the inventor of the K1 system (Yes thank you Aaronchow for giving me the Patent Number) has found an answer to many of the problems of the previously known hammerless valves and it would be a tragedy if his ideas fail because of design problems.

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    RiverDevil
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    If somebody is interested in HD Master this guy I can show you something he talk about the huben with pictures if you can read Chinese,and now I translate it for you first honestly:
    1,I have it,and you even didn’t touch it,how dare u talk about it?
    2,I own a sepcial PCP that only I have all over the world.I am proud of it.
    3.U r jealous of me.
    4.etc
    What I heard is that the HD MASTER(heyday) is not the designer,he just supported money to a person who living in JiangSu WuXi(not far from Shanghai)to design it,and he promised him that he can make it to be a commodity later.

    I ever quarreled with HD because of the misleading advertising on youtube and I asked him if he was the HUBEN designer twice,he did not answer me at last,and my friend told me that he is just a person like project manager,then I got it.

    When a Chinese person make something new,maybe he should think about first:why the foreigners did not pick up this project?Something seems to be new and fancy,but r u sure that is a brand new idea,not something worthless others don’t want to waste time on it?Because almost 99% knowledge of the modern society just like mathematics、physics and etc were founded by foreigners,not Chinese.
    I do know clearly the knowledge I learned in college are all imported.

    I still think of blowing the pellet into the barrel,this kind way can’t afford HUBEN a steady accuracy,maybe somebody is lucky to get one of it enough accurate,but batch manufacture must become a nightmare of HUBEN.

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    RiverDevil
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    Maybe You should raise up the hardness of the pellet,coz blowing the pellet into the barrel is easy to hurt the head of the pellet and at last you lost the accuracy.I did do a simple calculate that when the pellet was totally blowed into the barrel and leave out of the magazine,that moment,the speed is about 6m/s,and it is still easy to hurt the head made of pure Pb.
    And I worry about the coaxiality between the pellet(magazine whole) and the barrel!
    Now,I want to know that how would HUBEN make the pellet and the magazine whole to be coaxial???
    The pellet head is 5.52mm,and the tail is about 5.7mm,if you put it into a magazine,the whole should be less than 5.52mm,than you can got a coaxial pellet to the magazine whole.
    But it will be hard to put it into the smaller magazine whole,and the video showed us doing that is simple.
    It must be bigger than 5.52mm,and I know how HUBEN deal with this problem.
    They make grooves in the magazine whole.I don’t know if it is a stupid idea or a talented one?
    But now,Maybe we can explain the reason of that the barrel was designed of none removeable because it is hard to make the barrel grooves to fit the magazine whole grooves well and of course you can’t do anything with the gun especially the barrel.If you did it,maybe you destroy the balance of the barrel grooves to the magazine grooves.
    till now,I can’t understand why they make grooves in the magazine whole,is it different from the unthreaded hole???
     

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    Steyr
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    well done aaron chow and river devil, your agenda is clear – you guys have an axe to grind with huben – disgruntled business partners? you are achieving your aim of putting enough doubt in peoples’s minds – I for one was looking forward to the huben k1 but have decided to watch and wait for now.

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    RiverDevil
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    I am just a poor mechanical structure designer,have nothing to do with any person who was related to HUBEN.
    I am here now is just want to tell u my personal opinions and what I deeply warried about just like what i ever did in the Chinese network.
    By the way,I want to say that K1 might borrow something from Steyr LP50(semi-auto,blowing pellets into the barrel)and Sanjian B56(the bleed valve),a Chinese brand of airgun in Guangzhou,but now is not existing anymore.
    It seems to be a complex combination and according to the B56-bleed-valve operation mode,it has to be designed of a semi-auto airgun.

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    Dt9290
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    I imagine all opposing views will moderate somewhat once Huben resolves the accuracy issue. Maybe it will be cause to hit the old “Reset” button?

    I wonder if this powerful semi-automatic PCP is designed purely for hunting larger animals like wild boar? Those animals seem to be taken at 30 yards or less with PCPs, (though I don’t know that Nomadic Pirate ever took one with a .22 PCP. Anyone?). It seems too powerful to waste on trying to hit a ground squirrel at 65 yards; a distance well within the range of many current .22 PCP airguns. I have not seen a stated purpose for the K1 (with regards to typical usage)so I don’t know if MOA accuracy beyond 30 yards is even a fair expectation, let alone FT or Benchrest competition-like accuracy requirements. A K1 competing at an AoA Extreme Bench-rest event? So, I wonder; where is it written, the usage for this fascinating PCP? Anyone got a relevant link to share?  

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