Huben Hammerless K1

Forums PCP Airguns Huben Hammerless K1

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    AASkiff
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    so is on the Steyr semi-auto it has no pellet probe, pellets shoot out of the mag by air behind them. But you can still take off the barrel and put it back on and still be the same accurate. :)

    Why none removable mag is also a question?

    p.s. If one cannot easily service his gun if needed then it is not very good.

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    AASkiff
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    “Ronin001”It uses air pressure to open the valve there is no hammer such as all other air rifles where you pull your lever or bolt to compress a spring with a hammer which then would stike the air valve.   

     

    
I believe Benjamin Rouge was using similar type of industrial valve that needed no hammer to open. Why they stopped making that gun beats me? All it needed is just ergonomics improvements, gun being not so big and smaller calibers other then 9mm.
    Huben went a step further that there is no electronics involved in controlling how long the valve stays open. Would be nice to see a diagram on how the valve actually works.

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    AASkiff
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    there is more videos post #5, seems very enjoyable to shoot.
    http://www.luchtbuks.net/index.php?showtopic=98977&st=0&p=822762&#entry822762

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    Lbl25a
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    If you look at Wlbryce’s photos you can see that the barrel is held In an alloy casting mounted in front of the revolver cylinder. That seems to be the only mechanical attachment so that it is a fully floating barrel? The barrel is probably made integrally with the casting during manufacture and that is why it is not removable. I suspect that the rifle can be disassembled by removing the barrel and casting as a single unit but this would not enable the barrel to be changed unless you could obtain a replacement from the manufacturer.

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    AASkiff
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    I see that, but there is also an allen screw visible securing the barrel, most likely from both sides :) Barrel comes off too looking at parts they have shown

    Fully floated barrel would be like on this BSA

    If they use 8 clamp type of chassi to secure the barrel, and air tube to provide rigidity to the platform, that is not a free floated barrel. As air pressure changes in the air tube, it does have an effect a pulling affect on the barrel. Thus why people report random POI changes at different pressures say with something like the Cricket. Edgun has realized that on Matador R3M he simulates at least one piece receiver, also this seats the barrel deep inside the receiver, and the clamp securing the air tube is now attached to the shroud, but not the barrel. So that can be called a free floated barrel some what. .html

    FX Bobcat has a free floated barrel
    well seated inside the receiver. And they done this right on the Bobcat I think. That may be why they are more accurate then the Wildcat platform that uses the same Cricket, Taipan/Raptor early matador type chassi.

    From looking at K1 parts shown, the barrel looks a bit thin 12-14mm for these muzzle energies is not very good.. 16-18mm would be better. 2) why use complex casted parts, machined parts are better for pcp’s. 3) manometer as some one said facing a persons cheeks, safety issue, has to be moved on the other side for most people unless you are a lefty. 4) why use padding in between the barrel and chassi? 5) Linkage rod can be simplified. I like what the Koreans did on Jkhan models, heaving it be a straight plate with cutouts, that goes around pressure gauge, and major assembly bolts. Rather then having a long rod with bends that will definitely inside the stock  rub on something, thus making the trigger feel mushy.

    So based on what is shown with price of $1500 it will be hard to sell, despite it being a unique gun. First it is a Chinese made PCP, and they have yet to prove that they can build safe pcp’s.

    So whoever will be working with them, has to really sit down with them, and iron out the details so it will gel. Same is true btw of Korean manufacturers,  though their quality is better do to access to better machinery,  but again the same thing comes up, general airgun knowledge is there, desire to mass produce, but lack of expert knowledge say somebody like FX has in airgun making. When they put out something, you look it at and 99%-100% it is finished product every time.

    So the idea may be great of these K1, but how it is done, raises questions. Reading that it dumps air on certain settings is not very good. New guys will get really frustrated, and then the dealer that sold it be all at fault.

    p.s. I also think that because of extremely crazy airgun laws in China, and lack of their own airgun base market, manufacturers don’t really get any feedback from real users on stuff they produce or copy. Instead they go and mass produce air rifles that are sort of kind of 50-60% their, and let the selling dealer do all the hard labor with mods. By the time it gets here, dealer gets to test it, and gets user feedback, it takes several months to make changes for the manufacturer, that has already mass produced into the 100’s. And when they enter tough US market it is hard for them to compete..

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    liudeng
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    Listen to your point of view should be hunting Chinese altar caonimabian it, you are really too good this forum is really where life does not meet, the future can be more exchanges.

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    AASkiff
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    just finished hunting turkey from a dinner table :)

    p.s. anyway regarding information exchange,  I just made a comment what you folks will come against in terms of competition on American and European markets @ $1500 price range and expectations from buyers.

    You can take a look at this guy’s youtube channel, he tares air rifles down so people can see what they are buying (I wish his channel was in English though) to get an idea how guns in this price range are build. As  an example Vulcan did a good job on a linkage system, and chassi strengthening. As well as how to strenghten a relatively small receiver block with cover that looks good esthetically. That is what I meant when I wrote expert knowledge in air rifle building.

    K1 as an example uses just a cover that does not really work. Looks like what was available on hand what used to build it.

    Idea is great, how it is build is 3 out of 5. MSRP of $1500 is unrealistic. But all this can be reworked into a nice package if the company really wanted to.

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    louis40
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    How many of you has gotten the Huben K1 now..? Please tell us your personal opinion about it..

    Thanks..

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    merkur
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    If you look closely there are three set screws holding the barrel into the casting. Also the K1 should be in our hands in the next few weeks or maybe less… We should find out if they got the long range accuracy worked out in the next week or two…

    The other thing to remember that is, the barrel is inside the shroud, not clamped by the bands directly….

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    louis40
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    Apparently Huben agreed on replacing the Barrel by a more accurate one. See tthe article on Mrod:“AFTER TESTING THE FIRST SAMPLE WE ASKED FOR THE ACCURACY TO BE IMPROVEDTHEY WORK BETTER THAN ADVERTIZED AND GROUPS WERE DECENT AT 3/4′ FROM 50 YDS BUT FOR THIS PRICE POINT WE ASKED FOR WHAT WE PAID FOR AND HUBEN AGREED TO THE LW BARREL SPEC UPGRADE AT NO EXTRA CHARGE”

    http://www.mrodair.com/huben_k-1_semi_auto_pcp
     

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    Lbl25a
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    Don’t understand what they mean by an upgrade. The gun was always advertised with a LW barrel so does this mean that there are different grades of LW barrel ?. I know that LW offer both standard and polygon rifling so have they just changed the type of rifling?. Both types of barrel are the same price in UK.
    Was the 3/4 in group before or after the upgrade?. The group shown in the original video looked more like a 1/2 in group so this is what I would have expected at 50 yards.
    After listening carefully to the Mrodair video the velocity figures called out at each shot showed an extreme spread that was also much greater than that shown in the Huben video. The pellets used may not have been the same but it does make me wonder about the Huben video.

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    wlbryce
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    I recieved a email from Huben today in regards to the long range issue. All the guns are shipped with a unchoked LW barrel and no changes have been made. The goal is still to find a pellet or slug that can be used in the K1 at long ranges that can make use of the power the gun can produce. That way a heavy projectile can be used for more energy on target.
    This will set the Huben apart from other “pellet” guns.

    I am still waiting for the Piledriver slug and a custom Huben pellet made by JSB.

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    Dt9290
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    WlBryce, First please accept my thanks for your service to our country. Very much appreciated. 
    About the K1 and it’s accuracy issues\price, it would be nice to know the diameter of the pellets that shoot well at 50 yards. Being pellet-picky is no crime.I own an Edgun R3m\.22  and the web is full of videos that show it’s barrel prefers a head diameter of < 5.52mm for the best accuracy (with JSB 18 grain Jumbo-Heavy pellets at around 930 fps). I have had other airguns that are not so fussy, and some that were as fussy as the Edgun. Domed pellets like the Jumbo-Heavy, with larger head diameters than the Edgun likes will produce large spirals at those speeds, and even though Ed says he had Lothar-Walther spec it’s barrels for the R3M to shoot the 18 grain Jumbo Heavy, it was largely the field testing of owners that revealed the 5.51 head diameter to be the flavor most liked by the gun. Huben cannot, as I sense you will agree, be successful in the USA if it cannot bring the accuracy to within at least the top-tier PCP airguns (FX, Daystate, Steyr) at distances greater than 50 yards. The American shooter (at least) tends to want to really reach out and hit a target; most seek MOA at 100 yards even in .22 (and it’s been done many times over). I sincerely hope MrodAir finds a solution to that problem while also addressing the enigmatic design that makes cleaning the barrel next to impossible, or at least explain it’s reasoning (and backing it up with examples). On that point, as a barrel fouls, we all know the first thing to go (or groups to grow).
    I’d be happy with filling to slightly over 3000 psi and living with 40 shots if I could hit what I aimed at out to even 75 yards. I like that the gun is easy to handle, and is power-adjustable (a big feature for me). You r insight about trigger is good too. Seems it could be better. I hope MrodAir is reading this thread. 

    Those poor Starlings! On the other hand I drop them at 25 yards with my .177 Crosman 1701P and JSB 10.34 Heavy pellets. Doesn’t gut them but they are just as dead, and I get 45 shots (tweaked) per fill (2500 psi). The Huben company should step up to the U.S. plate and take it’s shooters’ desires to heart. We all want this gun to succeed in our market. Maybe Huben should have asked us (about the US market anyway) during product testing. Perhaps it ignored input from MrodAir?. It’s not all about maximum power. It’s mainly about putting lead on target. Even groups at 50 yards are not really representative of what a fine .22 PC can do unless it’s really sub-MOA.

    I want this gun even if I’d have to sell my Edgun to raise most of the funds for it. But it needs to at least be the R3M’s equal for accuracy at distance. I’m sure you’ll agree.

    Thank you for your continuing update of your experiences with the gun. They are invaluable, if somewhat disappointing. We want 10-shot groups at 90 yards covered by a dime! (just like nasty dead people want ice water! LOL!!!) MOA will be acceptable though. :)
    thank you again. look forward to your next update. 
    PS I had two Kalibrgun Hummingbirds  (for weeks) go trough my hands while the vendor tried to make the gun reliably index. I accepted a refund instead

     

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    rockymtbiker
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    Great comments, Dt9290; I concur.  Wlbryce, have you gotten the Piledrivers yet?  I know you want to try the current H&N production, but I have some of the original Promethius Piledrivers; I could send you a few to try out if you like.

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    aaronchow
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    Dt9290
    You want “10-shot groups at 90 yards covered by a dime!” 

    A dime is only 17.9 millimeters(0.705 inch) in diameter.  I think you expect too much from a semiauto air rifle. 

    Fx,Daystate cannot assure you of that accuracy.

    Huben K1 is struggling for ONE inch 5-shot group  at 60 yards. 

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    Dt9290
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    AC, silly boy! Why so serious! I was being rhetorical. LOL!!! We all want what we want, but sometimes it’s just not (yet) doable with existing tools. Seriously, I await the news from MrodAir about the new-spec’d barrels. That business seems invested and I think we are all rooting for it, and the Huben K1 to succeed. (btw I’d take a Huben doing MOA at 75 yards! Why not dream a little?) :)  

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    Chappee
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    Have you tried any home made airgun pellets in the Huben K1?  There is a person that actually makes a pellet mold for .177 through .25 caliber and the .22 pellets that can be made weight anywhere between 17 to 32 grains, with the standard weight being 22 grains.  You said that you were looking for heavier airgun pellets, these could be it. I just don’t know how long the completed pellets are though.

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    wlbryce
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    Last week I received a small tin of custom pellets from JSB, they weigh in at 33 gr but had a large spread of weights on my scale, well over .5 gr on some so it makes me wonder how well JSB is doing with the manufacture of this pellet. I do not know what it is called, it was in a blank tin and was shipped direct from JSB.

    Weather has been bad, but got a quick window this evening with no wind. It took most of the tin to sight in my large scope so people would not brow beat on me for the 3X optic I use for pest control.

    I did not have much of a chance to dial in the right velocity, but settled on around 975 fps. At this setting the gun uses more air pushing the 33 gr rounds than it does shooting the 16 gr predators. If I had more Pellets I would have pushed it to 1050 fps.

    With most of the tin gone, I shot three 10 round groups at the 75 yard target. This is the best group.

    I did still have (big) flyers in each group, but from this test there is hope. Like all the other guns I have shot, it will just take some time and effort to find the right combination of Air and Pellet that the gun likes to shoot. We are lucky with guns like my FX as I just read the posts from others and I knew what pellets the FX shoots well.

    I still think the Piledriver will be the best choice as it is more like a slug and not a pellet. But, it looks like it will be late next year before I can get any.

    Lastly, I HAVE cleaned the barrel several times and I have experinced no issues with that. I do not use a wire brush in the bore because of fear of damaging the breech seal. But, so far it is no big deal. I have lost count of the total pellets shot but it is in excess of 6K. 
     

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    rockymtbiker
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    Thanks for the update, Wlbryce.  Have you contacted Mr. Hollowpoint and asked his advice?

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    Dt9290
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    the whole world wonders where the new spec’d barrels are for Mrod Air’s investment.
    wlbryce, how is the crown on the barrel? can you see it? also what is your fill source? keep up the good work!

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