How to fix reg creeping?

Forums PCP Airguns How to fix reg creeping?

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    Shinyknight
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    I've seen posts about impact and crown reg creeping overnight. But they don't mention how to fix it. Most just send their guns in. I bought my impact from airgun Depot a month ago. When I got it, it creep overnight. But I read on forums here that some say new reg will creep till it break in. Have it for a month now, shot about 500-600 pellets through it. It still creep overnight. Not by much but is noticable and does effect the fps. My gun is tune to shoot 33.95gr at 850 average. When let it sit overnight, it will shoot 820, then 830 then back to the 850s. So Everytime I let the gun sit overnight, I have to dry fire 1+2 shots to get reg back to normal. Anyone know a fix to stop this? It's a $2000 gun, shouldn't have this problem imo. I have a huma reg on my Marauder that holds reg pressure just fine for over a month and doesnt creep.

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    Bob_O
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    Mrshosted
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    I try the regulator DIY change, 

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    Paio
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    Mine is AMP reg and it creeps as well doesn’t matter what I do. I have shot 600/700 shots on my Impact. Would love to know how to fix it. 

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    Bajahunter
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    I have more than 2,000 shots… it still creeps.

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    Bob_O
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    The AMP reg in my Crown creeps a few bar after a while or overnight.  It doesn't bother me though as I get single-digit ES time after time.

    The last thing I want to do is try and fix the creep and somehow create another issue.  I just burn a shot or two when I notice the increase in pressure to bring it back down to where I have it set.

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    STO
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    It is worth noting that moving your rifle from a low temperature area to a higher temperature area will cause a noticeable increase in plenum pressure. This is not creep, or a defect with the reg, but just the nature of gas expansion with temperature. So if you're shooting out in the cold and then you go inside, you should see an increase in your plenum pressure. If you didn't, it'd mean you have a leak somewhere in your rifle. 

    Hope that helps. :) 

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    weatherby
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    The "creep" you showed in the photo's is almost nothing, I'd leave it like that if I were you, could be it will improve over time.

    Just go out and shoot, and be happy with the new gun :)

     

    cheers, Gijs

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    nervoustrig
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    Creep is caused by air weeping through microscopic imperfections in the regulator’s valve seat.  The only reliable way I have found to remedy a creeping regulator is to dress the two sides of the valve seat. 

     

    One side is usually hard plastic (e.g. Delrin) and the other is usually metal (typ. brass or stainless steel).  They need to be dead flat, parallel to each other, and polished free of any scratches.  If all it needs is polishing, I’ve managed with nothing more than a thick piece of glass as a backer for wet/dry sandpaper, and a few careful strokes against 400, 600, 1200, and 2000 grit.

     

    Note some regulators have a replaceable plastic piece and that’s convenient to try if you have the option.  Ninja paintball regulators are the most familiar example.  There’s a little plastic ball that’s press-fit into the regulator piston.  You can pop it out from behind and snap a new one in.  So long as the conical seat on the reg body is in good shape, that will usually solve the problem.  Like any new reg, it will need to be cycled a bit for the fresh surface to wear in.  Not 2000 times though :)

     

    FYI, it remains mysterious to me how reconfiguring the Belleville stack has any bearing on creep.  If it works, that’s all that matters but I cannot explain it.

     

     

     

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    weatherby
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    nervoustrig

    Creep is caused by air weeping through microscopic imperfections in the regulator’s valve seat.  The only reliable way I have found to remedy a creeping regulator is to dress the two sides of the valve seat. 

     

    One side is usually hard plastic (e.g. Delrin) and the other is usually metal (typ. brass or stainless steel).  They need to be dead flat, parallel to each other, and polished free of any scratches.  If all it needs is polishing, I’ve managed with nothing more than a thick piece of glass as a backer for wet/dry sandpaper, and a few careful strokes against 400, 600, 1200, and 2000 grit.

     

    Note some regulators have a replaceable plastic piece and that’s convenient to try if you have the option.  Ninja paintball regulators are the most familiar example.  There’s a little plastic ball that’s press-fit into the regulator piston.  You can pop it out from behind and snap a new one in.  So long as the conical seat on the reg body is in good shape, that will usually solve the problem.  Like any new reg, it will need to be cycled a bit for the fresh surface to wear in.  Not 2000 times though :)

     

    FYI, it remains mysterious to me how reconfiguring the Belleville stack has any bearing on creep.  If it works, that’s all that matters but I cannot explain it.

     

     

     

    Totally agree with you about the "burn in time" on regulators, it needs time to settle, and because the delrin is softer than the brass nose, it will "iron out" the machining marks during use.

    The double stacking of the old Crown regulators had got more to do with the fact that around the 150bar mark, the stock BV washers tend to flatten out, resulting in a "overshoot" of pressure.  However, the newer regulators should be fine.

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    nervoustrig
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    Okay thanks for explaining it was the springs going flat.  I had asked about it in one of the prior threads but I don’t think anyone backed up that theory at the time.

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    bzizzi373
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    Do what I just did and order a Huma regulator, I have shot thousands of rounds through my Crow even after double stacking the belville washers and reg still creeps up overnight.

    I have a Brocock Bantam Sniper with a Huma regulator and have zero creep issues.

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    hsnmz
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    I would rather take 2, 3 dry shots before starting a shooting session than to try fixing it and making it worse. I think it happens in many guns but in cse of an Impact the creep gets noticed due to a reg guage.

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    Shinyknight
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    hsnmz

    I would rather take 2, 3 dry shots before starting a shooting session than to try fixing it and making it worse. I think it happens in many guns but in cse of an Impact the creep gets noticed due to a reg guage.

    I have a huma reg in my Marauder. The pressure read the reg pressure. I set to 1800psi and it holds 1800 psi for weeks and even months without shooting. No leaks or creeps. So it's not cause the impact has a reg gauge that people are now noticing. Imo for a $2000 gun it should hold pressure for a month before it creep a bit. But people having creep like overnight. 

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    hsnmz
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    Shinyknight

    hsnmz

    I would rather take 2, 3 dry shots before starting a shooting session than to try fixing it and making it worse. I think it happens in many guns but in cse of an Impact the creep gets noticed due to a reg guage.

    I have a huma reg in my Marauder. The pressure read the reg pressure. I set to 1800psi and it holds 1800 psi for weeks and even months without shooting. No leaks or creeps. So it's not cause the impact has a reg gauge that people are now noticing. Imo for a $2000 gun it should hold pressure for a month before it creep a bit. But people having creep like overnight. 

    Just my opinion yes it's a top dollar gun and should be perfect in each respect, but in this case the headache linked with all the effort to fix this issue is far more than just shooting 2 dry shots before every shooting session and enjoying.

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    Jayman07770
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    I got the same issue and agree with the other members to just live with it. You’ll be without a rifle for several weeks or longer. Sending it back also  doesn’t guaranty there won’t  be any  creep after it’s been repaired. I would only send it in if there’s a leak or the creep is huge. 

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    zx10wall
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    nervoustrig

    Creep is caused by air weeping through microscopic imperfections in the regulator’s valve seat.  The only reliable way I have found to remedy a creeping regulator is to dress the two sides of the valve seat. 

     

    One side is usually hard plastic (e.g. Delrin) and the other is usually metal (typ. brass or stainless steel).  They need to be dead flat, parallel to each other, and polished free of any scratches.  If all it needs is polishing, I’ve managed with nothing more than a thick piece of glass as a backer for wet/dry sandpaper, and a few careful strokes against 400, 600, 1200, and 2000 grit.

     

    Note some regulators have a replaceable plastic piece and that’s convenient to try if you have the option.  Ninja paintball regulators are the most familiar example.  There’s a little plastic ball that’s press-fit into the regulator piston.  You can pop it out from behind and snap a new one in.  So long as the conical seat on the reg body is in good shape, that will usually solve the problem.  Like any new reg, it will need to be cycled a bit for the fresh surface to wear in.  Not 2000 times though :)

     

    FYI, it remains mysterious to me how reconfiguring the Belleville stack has any bearing on creep.  If it works, that’s all that matters but I cannot explain it.

     

     

     

    Good explanation. The creep and resulting higher reg pressure, cause some slower shots due to there now being more pressure for the hammer strike to overcome as its preset and tuned for a constant reg pressure. Similar to a valve-lock situation but different. You can live with it for now but it will worsen. 

    I've done the same polish technique for the seat of the piston in the reg which closes the pressure off. I've had good results with this and it is part of what I now do every time I rebuild a regulator. 

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    AirGunShooter
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    Shinyknight

    hsnmz

    I would rather take 2, 3 dry shots before starting a shooting session than to try fixing it and making it worse. I think it happens in many guns but in cse of an Impact the creep gets noticed due to a reg guage.

    I have a huma reg in my Marauder. The pressure read the reg pressure. I set to 1800psi and it holds 1800 psi for weeks and even months without shooting. No leaks or creeps. So it's not cause the impact has a reg gauge that people are now noticing. Imo for a $2000 gun it should hold pressure for a month before it creep a bit. But people having creep like overnight. 

    I had a Huma regulator in my .25 Marauder, but after several months and thousands of pellets of frustration, I took it out.  Originally I set the reg at 1,900 psig.  After shooting it  few times I noticed the pressure had crept up to about 2,100 psig.  So I took it out and adjusted again, slightly lower.  Back in and many shots later, the reg pressure now read 1,200 psig.  This chasing of a consistent pressure continued for months as I shot the rifle well over 2,000 rounds with the reg installed.  This Huma regulator was in and out of the .25 Marauder so many times as to be ridiculous.  One day about two months ago, I got the rifle out for shooting and saw the reg pressure had jumped to 2,600 psig.  I could not believe it?  So I took the regulator out and put it on a shelf.  My Maruader is much happier without it.  I have yet to decide what I am going to do with this Huma reg as it is the 2nd Huma in less than a year that has given me grief.  I don't know whether to rebuild it or just hang it out at 100 yards and use it for a target.

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    nervoustrig
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    Just a quick comment about taking a couple of dry fires to start with.  That’s a reasonable plan for plinking and target shooting.  However it’s a deal breaker for hunting and pest control where you may be waiting an hour or more before taking a shot.

    I don’t think it was mentioned in this thread but don’t worry about creep until you’ve adjusted the hammer strike to put the rifle on its velocity knee.  That is, dial up the hammer strike until the velocity no longer increases, then back it off to 95 – 97% of that max.  When adjusted in this manner, the gun is least sensitive to pressure variation (creep).

    It is the same principle that allows an unregulated PCP to produce a narrow extreme spread over a wide pressure range.

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    elh0102
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    The best solution, buy a Red Wolf!! I have several top shelf, regulated rifles, RAW, Steyr, Crown. All are great rifles, and frankly, I have had no issue with reg creep. Being kind of casual about all this, I might have simply not noticed. But, the last few months of Red Wolf ownership has changed my perspective. I've never enjoyed a rifle as much. It might not quite shoot with the RAW and Steyr under match conditions, and with a really good shooter at the trigger, but neither applies to me. I know this is off topic, sorry, but it's second bourbon time here and I'm just skimming the forum. 

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