How to be able to sight at close distances (10’ to 12’) and at 25 to 40 yds?

Forums Optics, Scopes, Rings, & Mounts How to be able to sight at close distances (10’ to 12’) and at 25 to 40 yds?

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    DHart
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    I have an application where I may need to (only very occasionally) shoot a pellet rifle at a very close range of, perhaps 10’ to 12’, but also be able to more regularly shoot targets at ranges from 25 to 40 yards.

    How can this be done?  Adjustable iron sights on the rifle, in addition to a scope?  Can the two work together without having to remove the scope?

    Kind of a complicated problem to solve… is there a good solution?  Can rifles such as Bantam Sniper or Wildcat MkII be set up to be able to do this?

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    DaBinChe
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    Get some good quick release rings for a scope and a good red dot also with QR…good ones will hold zero if placed in the same spot or only a few clicks away.  Or you can get one of those mounts that puts the red dot to the side of the scope so in the regular scope position is the scope while tilting the gun to one side you'll be in the red dot so both will be on the gun at the same time and all that needs to be done is just a quick angling of gun.

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    starlingassn
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    easiest way would be………

    sight in for whatever longer distance you prefer,

    and then shoot at 10-12 feet and see where you hit  (you'll hit very low at super short distances)

     

    then make a mental note of where to hold for those very close shots.  

    not complicated at all 😎

     

     

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    DHart
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    Just for full disclosure as to my reason… once a year or so we have a rattler on our patio, which I cannot tolerate (dogs, family, etc.). In the past, I’ve used a 12 gauge to dispatch the rattlers, which of course works just FINE!  But in the interest of not discharging “power burners” within 1/4 mile of structures (neighboring houses) I’ve been thinking that I could probably dispatch a rattler with a well aimed, accurate pellet rifle – though the range will only be 10 to 12 feet or so.  And I need to be able to “hop to” that application in a hurry (convert the rifle from 25 to 40 yard shooting to 10-12’ shooting.). That may happen once a year or so.  The rest of the time, I want to use the rifle to accurately shoot targets at 25-40 yards in the back yard. I want the rifle to be short and nimble, and accurate.  Budget is about $1500. (I already have Omega Air Cylinders for PCP).  I’ve been thinking Bantam Sniper or Wildcat MkII.  IF I can find a way to shoot either of them accurately at 10 to 12’ or so.

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    BDX
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    If theres is a scope already on the gun I dont have much to add, if youre looking for a scope that will focus down to very small distances have you considered one of the newer versions of the BugBuster?

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    DHart
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    BDX

    If theres is a scope already on the gun I dont have much to add, if youre looking for a scope that will focus down to very small distances have you considered one of the newer versions of the BugBuster?

    I haven’t bought the rifle or scope yet.  That’s why I’m asking the question – how to do this – before I buy the rifle and scope.  Aside from trying to find a rifle that I like which has adjustable iron sights on it – and then adding a scope – I am looking for recommendations as to how to meet this need.  Neither of the two rifles that I’m considering (Bantam Sniper and Wildcat MkII) have any sights whatsoever on them.

    I’m not familiar with the BugBuster, but now I will look into what those offer.  Thank you.

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    DHart
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    DaBinChe

    Get some good quick release rings for a scope and a good red dot also with QR…good ones will hold zero if placed in the same spot or only a few clicks away.  Or you can get one of those mounts that puts the red dot to the side of the scope so in the regular scope position is the scope while tilting the gun to one side you'll be in the red dot so both will be on the gun at the same time and all that needs to be done is just a quick angling of gun.

    This sounds like a good possible solution which will provide an excellent scope for target shooting, AND a RedDot for close up rattler eradication.  Do you think that this kind of combination be made to work on a Bantam Sniper or Wildcat MkII?

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    airgunmike56
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    Simple and cheap, Buy you a 40 dollar Beeman P17 in 177 caliber , Shoot the rattler in the head, Then shoot him in the head again as many times as makes you happy,  Now get a sharp knife and cut the head off and dispose of it, I carry a P17 in my car. My jeep, and truck, Sometimes in the dead of summer I never go out side with out a pellet pistol on my side, Sometimes its my 35 year  old Tempest , I have only killed about 12 this year and all pretty small under a foot long, Yep the deadly ones , 

    I did get a six footer out in the sand hills .

    Mike

     

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    DHart
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    BugBuster 3-9X32 focuses down to 9’’, which would definitely meet the “close-up” need.  As with many scopes, I imagine that it gets a little blurry at maximum magnification (9x)?

    Any idea how nice this scope is for target shooting at 35 yards? 

    Or… with quick release mounts, I guess I could swap the BugBuster on for rattler duty (and at $75 it’s not very costly) and keep a better long range scope on it the rest of the time? Is that feasible?

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    addertooth
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    The challenge factor is ten feet.   Many scopes do not focus at such a short distance.   But then, at ten feet your target can be a bit blurry and you will likely still nail it.  

    The second factor could be parallax error.  This is where the plane of the image of the rattler and the reticle are not the same across all distances.   Some scopes have a wheel to adjust the parallax across a variety of distances, but many do not adjust below 5 meters.  However, it is likely the error will be quite small anyway.  

    The last part is reticle selection.   You will need a scope which has dots (MOA or MIL), to support "holdover" or "holdunder" to compensate for the distance.  A free program, such as Hawke Sports Optic's "Chairgun Pro", will allow you to determine what is the best zeroing distance for your scope/rings/airgun combination to achieve your goals.   The first step will be for you to know the velocity and type of pellet.   Then how much the rings lift the center of the scope above the center of the bore.  Key those into the chairgun pro software.  Then key in how much maximum height error you can tolerate (such as plus or minus 1/2 inch).   Then key in with what you might want for ideal gun zeroing distance, such as 25 meter.    Look at how it projects the amount of vertical error over your distance, and you can use your reticle "dots" to have the right holdover/holdunder for that distance.   You can also just use clicks on your turret (provided your scope is repeatable, many scopes under $400 aren't as repeatable as most people would hope).  

    The picture below shows a run I did.   It is plus and minus 1/2 inch from 16 to 56 meters, for a Benjamin Bulldog, but it gives a typical example of what you would see.  If you look at the chart, I would require 2.5 inches of holdover at ten feet.   It would require 10.25 inches of holdover at 100 yards.  

     

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    DHart
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    airgunmike56

    Simple and cheap, Buy you a 40 dollar Beeman P17 in 177 caliber , Shoot the rattler in the head, Then shoot him in the head again as many times as makes you happy,  Now get a sharp knife and cut the head off and dispose of it, I carry a P17 in my car. My jeep, and truck, Sometimes in the dead of summer I never go out side with out a pellet pistol on my side, Sometimes its my 35 year  old Tempest , I have only killed about 12 this year and all pretty small under a foot long, Yep the deadly ones , 

    I did get a six footer out in the sand hills .

    Mike

     

    Now that’s an interesting approach that I hadn’t remotely considered.  I will give that some careful thought.  Thanks.

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    DHart
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    addertooth

    The challenge factor is ten feet.   Many scopes do not focus at such a short distance.   But then, at ten feet your target can be a bit blurry and you will likely still nail it.  

    The second factor could be parallax error.  This is where the plane of the image of the rattler and the reticle are not the same across all distances.   Some scopes have a wheel to adjust the parallax across a variety of distances, but many do not adjust below 5 meters.  However, it is likely the error will be quite small anyway.  

    The last part is reticle selection.   You will need a scope which has dots (MOA or MIL), to support "holdover" or "holdunder" to compensate for the distance.  A free program, such as Hawke Sports Optic's "Chairgun Pro", will allow you to determine what is the best zeroing distance for your scope/rings/airgun combination to achieve your goals.   The first step will be for you to know the velocity and type of pellet.   Then how much the rings lift the center of the scope above the center of the bore.  Key those into the chairgun pro software.  Then key in how much maximum height error you can tolerate (such as plus or minus 1/2 inch).   Then key in with what you might want for ideal gun zeroing distance, such as 25 meter.    Look at how it projects the amount of vertical error over your distance, and you can use your reticle "dots" to have the right holdover/holdunder for that distance.   You can also just use clicks on your turret (provided your scope is repeatable, many scopes under $400 aren't as repeatable as most people would hope).  

    The picture below shows a run I did.   It is plus and minus 1/2 inch from 16 to 56 meters, for a Benjamin Bulldog, but it gives a typical example of what you would see.  If you look at the chart, I would require 2.5 inches of holdover at ten feet.   It would require 10.25 inches of holdover at 100 yards.  

     

    This approach is more complex than I’ve previously worked with… BUT may be the best solution. I’m sure that the “nerdy” side of me would take to this like a duck to water.  I will give this a lot of serious consideration as well.  Thanks.

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    Rodeo
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    I had a very similar problem to solve with my Wildcat MK1.  I had a length of Weaver scope ring rail that I attached to the side of the Wildcat's scope rail riser blocks (the blocks the barrel runs thru).  This put the Weaver rail in line with the barrel.  I then zip tied a lazer pointer to the rail.  Bingo!  I had an exact aim point that was a little off set from point of impact at close ranges.  Mine was a cobbled together set up for quick need but this could easily be made permanent.  You could also mount an adjustable lazer or a red dot sight and have point of aim match point of impact.   I still have it on my WIldcat and can post a pic when I get home if anyone is interested.  

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    PerkyVal
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    See through rings, or a scope mounted laser serum to be the best options.

    If you go for a laser, dont get a cheap one. It's been my experience that the cheap ones can get bumped off "zero" very easily compared to the high end ones.

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    Rodeo
    Participant
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    This was a quick solution to a (hopefully) one time problem.  The Weaver rail can be permanently attached by tapping threads into the WC's scope rail mounting blocks.  Or attach to the side of the scope rail where I have the mag holders at.  

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    likkitysplyt
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    I don't know about you guys, but if I had a rattler at 45 yards from me I would pull out my WC or my Impact or my Edgun R5M and finish the critter off. Now folks lets be reasonable, if a rattler is on your porch why would you shoot the thing??? Seriously??? Look, just get a garden hoe that you keep a fairly sharp edge on and swack the thing once or twice behind the head. If your hoe is even crudely sharp it will decapitate the snake in short order. Heck, my Mom used to do that all the time and I have been doing it myself for most of my 68 years. Yeah, a snake can strike at you but unless you are severely disabled you should be able to stay away from the fangs. Let's get real people.

     

     

     

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    deke
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    Shooting 🐍 much more fun than hoeing 🐍 !  Nor do they supply hoe handles long enough for my satisfaction. My closeup shoot out of the kitchen window gun is a Crosman 2400kt with 14.5 " LW barrel and sports a BugBuster 3-12 . Zero is 25 yds with a 2mil holdover at 3 yds due to the pellet trajectory still rising to line of sight at the near distance.

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    elh0102
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    As I see it, shooting a rattlesnake on the patio with an air rifle has several potential outcomes, and only one good. Being close to the house, I would be primarily interested in a sure kill. I'm reminded of an episode years ago when a friend and I encountered a water moccasin as we approached our boat on the bank of a pond. We both had handguns, and we both emptied them on the snake, managed to slightly hit it about mid body. At that point, rather than reload and risk further embarrassment, I picked up a nearby oak limb and dispatched the serpent with one good whack (lucky hit). I'd stick with the 12 gauge. Since this is a very infrequent event, if neighbors complain, tell them the truth (or a good lie). Or, bag the snake and toss it in their yard. Tell them not to worry about the noise if they decide to shoot it. 

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    DHart
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    elh0102

    As I see it, shooting a rattlesnake on the patio with an air rifle has several potential outcomes, and only one good. Being close to the house, I would be primarily interested in a sure kill. I'm reminded of an episode years ago when a friend and I encountered a water moccasin as we approached our boat on the bank of a pond. We both had handguns, and we both emptied them on the snake, managed to slightly hit it about mid body. At that point, rather than reload and risk further embarrassment, I picked up a nearby oak limb and dispatched the serpent with one good whack (lucky hit). I'd stick with the 12 gauge. Since this is a very infrequent event, if neighbors complain, tell them the truth (or a good lie). Or, bag the snake and toss it in their yard. Tell them not to worry about the noise if they decide to shoot it. 

    Yeah!  I get that.  I may just downside my 12 gauge shells to those little shorties and stick with that.  Then I don’t have to struggle to find a solution for combining very short sighting as well as distance sighting with a pellet rifle.  

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    Hookster
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    Around my parts we call that kind of close shot a "Barrel shot". Just look down the side of the gun and you can usually connect at 10ft or so. I have used it with good success on chipmunks to raccoons. Practice it on a close target and within a magazine you will be deadly. Kinda like shooting a long bow if I had to compare it to anything. 

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