We now have two guns with dual regs. So the question is, do we still have a plateau, knee and downslope? Are they harder to detect because the second reg is seeing a much lower constant pressure? Or is it the same old same old as having one reg?
How about this regulator question
- Thread starter Vetmx
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2 so so regs are no better than 1 great one and IMO 2 great regs are no better than a single great one. Tho ... 2 so so or better regs are better than a single lousy one.
It is a crutch and salesmanship for the most part. Built a single reg system with a Great regulator and you have a winning system with 1/2 the complexity.
JMO tho ...
It is a crutch and salesmanship for the most part. Built a single reg system with a Great regulator and you have a winning system with 1/2 the complexity.
JMO tho ...
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OK I'll bite. Assuming a good second regulator, we have a constant plenum pressure. Energy output from that will still be a matter of valve lift and dwell, that is, the relation between hammer force and plenum pressure and return spring force (if any). I can't see how that changes no matter how many regulators before the plenum. So there will still be a plateau, knee, and downslope. Maybe knee and downslope will be more, or less, subtle, and harder, or easier, to identify, but they will still be there as long as we are using a hammer blow to open a valve against a more or less constant pressure.
I suppose that a second reg, if being used to control a smaller range of pressure difference, can be built more sensitive than a single one. If you don't seek your plateau/knee/downslope by adjusting the hammer and instead vary the reg pressure, you could then be more precise. Of course, it would help to have a very precise gauge.
I suppose that a second reg, if being used to control a smaller range of pressure difference, can be built more sensitive than a single one. If you don't seek your plateau/knee/downslope by adjusting the hammer and instead vary the reg pressure, you could then be more precise. Of course, it would help to have a very precise gauge.
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I don't know the answer to this question but to me I want a gun with as simple a system as possible. More parts more failier points. All my hunting guns don't even have regs. I do wonder if a double reg might be a good idea for ELR bench rest. It seems like it's possible that it could be more consistent but my gut tells me this is a gimmick.
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It’s not a gimmick and there is a very good reason for FX guns, particularly shooting slugs to have two regs. I just posted the question because there has to be at least a thousand guys who are on this forum that either have Mavericks or a M3. Starting to wonder how they tune them if nobody can answer this question.
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2 reg isn’t any different than 1 reg when tuning, the second one is just a bit more consistent thanks to consistent pressures from the first one.
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The answer is quite easy: the biggest reason for the second regulator is to decrease the difference in pressure between a high fill pressure and a low regulator pressure. If you put a second reg in between them the first reg gets a constant pressure to work with and the other takes most of the beating from the de reading bottle pressure. I have been using this principle for almost 5 years and it makes it easier to achieve very low extreme spread over a larger amount of shots and decreases wear on the ‘main’ regulator.
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Tuning is the same. I can see the logic of having two regs when going from really high fill pressures (4500 psi) down to low reg pressures, but it does seem excessive for "standard" regulating pressures.
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Also agree.
To the OPs question though nothing should change. Air is still being delivered to the valve by one reg. Anything on the downside of the first reg has no idea the second reg is even there.
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My experience with my M3 has me liking the dual reg system.
My impact sat unfired for 2 weeks. Picked it up this morning and took a dove at 90 yards, just one shot. The entire 2 weeks the 2nd reg has remained at 100bar.
However the first reg , which is seeing bottle pressure did creep from 130 to 150 bar. The 1st reg didn't care , so to me is working.
I'm usually not one to defend FX, but hey, so far it's working.
My impact sat unfired for 2 weeks. Picked it up this morning and took a dove at 90 yards, just one shot. The entire 2 weeks the 2nd reg has remained at 100bar.
However the first reg , which is seeing bottle pressure did creep from 130 to 150 bar. The 1st reg didn't care , so to me is working.
I'm usually not one to defend FX, but hey, so far it's working.
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The tuning is same. Think about the double regulator as if it's a single one... The tuning process you are describing is how to balance the hammer spring tension to the regulator pressure, so the number of regulators should not affect the way we find the balance.
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While that is working to help with first shot issues normally, I can't say I'd be happy with a 2nd reg creeping 20bar. Like we're saying if they would fix the reg creep issue in total there wouldn't be a "need" for 2 regs. I say need as plenty of other Impact owners do good with just a single reg and basically all other guns out there.
I know you've been a fan of Taipans also so I'm sure you know that a single reg can do the job. Never hesitate on first shot with my Shorty no matter how long it's been sitting. It works the same everytime.
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I will add a little. We don’t quite know how bad our Taipans creep because we don’t have a reg gauge. We would have to measure our first shots quite a few times over different times of the gun not being used and different fill pressures. But most guys shoot pellets and it just doesn’t matter that much. Now let’s talk slugs. My Taipan is a slugger. It’s always a spot on gun across my whole usable air pressure range. But because the gun is not sensitive to being tuned for slugs on an accuracy node like another brand is, this changes things. And FX knows it. Pellets don’t count. They shoot great out of guns even with funky tunes. Do you see where I’m going? Guys that haven’t experienced just how small these nodes are when tuning might have a harder time trying to grasp what it’s like keeping your gun on one while using your available air per fill. I shoot pellets out of one of my FX guns and I couldn’t give a crap about finding and maintaining an accuracy node. Absolutely not necessary even for 100yrd shooting. Slugs? Different story.
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I have tested first shot on my Taipan a few times, and my others multiple times and seems to hold dead on.
However I can see your point on the thinner barrel Superior liners and such with slugs and accuracy nodes with there sensitivities. Good point there.
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The Impacts design and look had a lot to do with fitting a very small regulator in behind the trigger. It was upgraded I think 3 times at least since it inception. Longer piston and wider. Huma did there best to try and redesign it but said they were restricted in design because of the small space.
The lack of space available behind the trigger has always been the problem.
2 regulator’s is an attempt to overcome the problem of one small regulator struggling to cope and be consistent. My big disappointment is it’s another small regulator! Compromised AGAIN by the available space to hide it and not spoil the lines of the gun.
I can’t understand why with all the recourses FX has they can’t change the design of the bottle and put a wider neck on it and stop stuffing around with tiny regulators and put one decent reg with decent sized washers/springs in there.
The single huma regulator in the tube of the Wildcat works brilliantly because it’s BIG. (And very well made)
The lack of space available behind the trigger has always been the problem.
2 regulator’s is an attempt to overcome the problem of one small regulator struggling to cope and be consistent. My big disappointment is it’s another small regulator! Compromised AGAIN by the available space to hide it and not spoil the lines of the gun.
I can’t understand why with all the recourses FX has they can’t change the design of the bottle and put a wider neck on it and stop stuffing around with tiny regulators and put one decent reg with decent sized washers/springs in there.
The single huma regulator in the tube of the Wildcat works brilliantly because it’s BIG. (And very well made)
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