If my rifle is zeroed at 25 yds and I am aiming at a target at 35 yds, do I hold high above the target or hold low below the target. I've been trying to work it out in my head, but I am having terrible senior moments. Once I know which direction to go it'll be no problem going forward. I've tried drawing angles on paper and other things but I can't seem to visualize this one! I was a tobacco industry scientist and a math teacher, but that part of my brain must have deteriorated!
Holdover or Holdunder
- Thread starter dark1961
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Well, it depends. Is 25 your primary zero (the farther one) or is it the secondary zero (the closer one)??? If the pellet is on the way UP to peak trajectory or on the way DOWN from peak trajectory will affect the answer!
I guess that you would have to aim HIGHER than the crosshair - ergo, hold the cross hair over the target to hit the target..
I guess that you would have to aim HIGHER than the crosshair - ergo, hold the cross hair over the target to hit the target..
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What pellet, pellet speed, and scope height? From this information, we could get you a ball park answer. Depending if you have one or two zeros, you could be either holdover or holdunder.
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JimNM, scope height from retcile to bore is two inches, I have the reticle and pellet set to meet at 25 yards. after that lt would seem that for a short distance (theoretically), discounting gravity, the pellet would continue upward. I only have one zero, scope not that sophisticated. having an old age brain fart.
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The scope and the bore are not parallel - the bore sends the pellet upward at a slight angle, otherwise the pellet would never cross the line of sight ("zero"). You have 2" of difference to cover in only 25 yards - I bet the pellet is still climbing prior to peak trajectory, thereby making your shot in question a HOLD UNDER shot.
Simple 20 minute exercise to get solid data. Set your cardboard or paper target and shoot it crosshair on center(15y). Move to 20y, shoot that one with crosshiar on center, move the target to 30y, 40 yards, 50 yards. From close to far, your POI will climb from below bullseye, climb to bullseye, climb to above bullseye, fall a little from peak, cross bulls eye and then start hitting farther and farther below bullseye as the distances increase.
There are many good videos on the YouTube - I will see if I can dig one out for you tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH3fhv6-6Pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-9x5LbjBNk
Simple 20 minute exercise to get solid data. Set your cardboard or paper target and shoot it crosshair on center(15y). Move to 20y, shoot that one with crosshiar on center, move the target to 30y, 40 yards, 50 yards. From close to far, your POI will climb from below bullseye, climb to bullseye, climb to above bullseye, fall a little from peak, cross bulls eye and then start hitting farther and farther below bullseye as the distances increase.
There are many good videos on the YouTube - I will see if I can dig one out for you tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH3fhv6-6Pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-9x5LbjBNk
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Based on your prior posts I'm thinking you are talking about your MRod in .22? I'm using a 18.1 JSB pellet moving at 850fps for calculation. If you zero the scope at 25yds you will hit .19" low at 35yds. This would require that you hold OVER.
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“Dark1969” , just aim high . Actually you can just aim dead center at that distance and you should still be in the kill zone..
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There are several variables. But...to not over complicate something simple. If you are dead on at 25 yards, just shoot the rifle at 35 yards several groups to get a good determination of where your POI is at 35 yards. If you are consistently grouping low, then you need to hold over a bit. At those ranges it should be very little, but you will have to shoot and find the correct hold over.
TR
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I've heard of some shooters zeroing their gun at the peak of the pellet's trajectory. That way you only have holdover aim points.
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This video at about 10:20 seconds talks again about zero and point of aim vs. point of impact (POA/POI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFrae96wKUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFrae96wKUg
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No airgun that I'm aware of could possibly have a close zero at 25 yards unless the scope has differently elevated ring mounts or an outrageous stack of shims, so anything over 25 is going to require some degree of holdOVER.
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If you are shooting at typical velocities (about 850-900 fps), using your provided scope height and pellet you're zeroed very near peak trajectory, so you'll be bang on from about 15-30yards. Other than that, only holdovers 
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If you are shooting at typical velocities (about 850-900 fps), using your provided scope height and pellet you're zeroed very near peak trajectory, so you'll be bang on from about 15-30yards. Other than that, only holdovers
How in the world are you 5" low at the muzzle ?
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I used holdovers a lot when I used to shoot Field target
I know in reality there will be two dead zero points in the arc of the pellets path. But for most of the shooting I and others do, the key is to try and shoot for zero at the very top of the arc of the pellets path so you won't have any holdunder to deal with.
Most of the guys I've shot field target with like to zero there guns between 25 and 35 yds. I zero all my airguns at 28 yds. Mainly because I like to shoot the 25 meter bench rest targets as well....... 25 meters =27.3 yds and I just add the extra two feet for good measure.
Zeroing at this yardage gives me what I like to call a flat spot of the curve where there's not much more than a pellets width of difference from say 21 yds to 35 yds on most set ups. This way all other yardages being a hold over
I'll take my Thomas set up for instance. My Sightron is set 3 inches above the bore and I zero it at 28 yds.
Here's my cheat sheet for hold overs. By looking at my hold overs you can see this particular set up is pretty flat from 24 yds to say 38 yds with not more than a pellets width difference. In actuality the top of the arc of this set up is closer to somewhere between 30 and 32 yds, but still close enough for field target because the pellet won't be more than a pellets width high at 32 yds.
Notice, I've got some crazy high holdovers near the 10 yd range, but this high scope set up is so much more forgiving at the longer ranges where my range finding skills might be a little off. For instance the difference between 50 yds and 55 yds is tough to range find for my old eyes. And since we have 1.5" Kill zones beyond 45 yds I can usually use my 2 stadia hold over for 52.5 yds and still hit high into the 1.5" kz if in reality I screwed up on my range finding and the target is at 50 yds and in contrast hit low into the kz if it's at 55 yds.
Hope I haven't been too confusing? LOL
Holdovers Thomas Oct/2017 mid 60's 817 fps
13.4 gr 3” height
30 power
10 yd @ 7.0
11 yd @ 6.0
12 yd @ 5.0
13 yd @ 4.2
14 yd @ 3.5
15 yd @ 3.0
16 yd @ 2.5
17 yd @ 2.0
18 yd @ 1.5
19 yd @ 1.2
20 yd @ 1.0
21 yd @ 0.7
22 yd @ 0.5
23 yd @ 0.3
24 yd @ 0.1
28 yd ZERO
35 yd @ 0.0
37.5 yd @ 0.0
40 yd @ 0.2
42.5 yd @ 0.5
45 yd @ 1.0
47.5 yd @ 1.2
50 yd @ 1.9
52.5 yd @ 2.0
55 yd @ 2.1
My reticle. I usually refer to each line below the cross hair as stadia , but just pretend they're mildots for easy figuring. Imagine holding that 7th stadia in the center of a 3/8" killzone at 10 yds. I guess that's why most guys prefer to use scope clicks instead of holdovers?
Peace and Holdover Grease
Fuss
I know in reality there will be two dead zero points in the arc of the pellets path. But for most of the shooting I and others do, the key is to try and shoot for zero at the very top of the arc of the pellets path so you won't have any holdunder to deal with.
Most of the guys I've shot field target with like to zero there guns between 25 and 35 yds. I zero all my airguns at 28 yds. Mainly because I like to shoot the 25 meter bench rest targets as well....... 25 meters =27.3 yds and I just add the extra two feet for good measure.
Zeroing at this yardage gives me what I like to call a flat spot of the curve where there's not much more than a pellets width of difference from say 21 yds to 35 yds on most set ups. This way all other yardages being a hold over
I'll take my Thomas set up for instance. My Sightron is set 3 inches above the bore and I zero it at 28 yds.
Here's my cheat sheet for hold overs. By looking at my hold overs you can see this particular set up is pretty flat from 24 yds to say 38 yds with not more than a pellets width difference. In actuality the top of the arc of this set up is closer to somewhere between 30 and 32 yds, but still close enough for field target because the pellet won't be more than a pellets width high at 32 yds.
Notice, I've got some crazy high holdovers near the 10 yd range, but this high scope set up is so much more forgiving at the longer ranges where my range finding skills might be a little off. For instance the difference between 50 yds and 55 yds is tough to range find for my old eyes. And since we have 1.5" Kill zones beyond 45 yds I can usually use my 2 stadia hold over for 52.5 yds and still hit high into the 1.5" kz if in reality I screwed up on my range finding and the target is at 50 yds and in contrast hit low into the kz if it's at 55 yds.
Hope I haven't been too confusing? LOL
Holdovers Thomas Oct/2017 mid 60's 817 fps
13.4 gr 3” height
30 power
10 yd @ 7.0
11 yd @ 6.0
12 yd @ 5.0
13 yd @ 4.2
14 yd @ 3.5
15 yd @ 3.0
16 yd @ 2.5
17 yd @ 2.0
18 yd @ 1.5
19 yd @ 1.2
20 yd @ 1.0
21 yd @ 0.7
22 yd @ 0.5
23 yd @ 0.3
24 yd @ 0.1
28 yd ZERO
35 yd @ 0.0
37.5 yd @ 0.0
40 yd @ 0.2
42.5 yd @ 0.5
45 yd @ 1.0
47.5 yd @ 1.2
50 yd @ 1.9
52.5 yd @ 2.0
55 yd @ 2.1
My reticle. I usually refer to each line below the cross hair as stadia , but just pretend they're mildots for easy figuring. Imagine holding that 7th stadia in the center of a 3/8" killzone at 10 yds. I guess that's why most guys prefer to use scope clicks instead of holdovers?
Peace and Holdover Grease
Fuss
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If you are shooting at typical velocities (about 850-900 fps), using your provided scope height and pellet you're zeroed very near peak trajectory, so you'll be bang on from about 15-30yards. Other than that, only holdovers
How in the world are you 5" low at the muzzle ?
Metric units - 5cm. It is right there at the top of the chart
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I do my best thinking in the shower. Here is my last stab at the topic. Theory is great, and simulation is powerful tool, however, for me empirical data is king. Doing is learning. Once I can prove the theory in practice then I can use it to predict with confidence.
Simple explanation:
Before the secondary zero = hold over (crosshair above target)
Between secondary and primary = hold under (crosshair below target)
After primary zero = hold over (crosshair above target)
Shoot'em good!
Simple explanation:
Before the secondary zero = hold over (crosshair above target)
Between secondary and primary = hold under (crosshair below target)
After primary zero = hold over (crosshair above target)
Shoot'em good!
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If I am shooting at a distance closer than what I have the gun zeroed at … I aim LOW (above the cross hairs)
If I am shooting at a distance farther than what I have the gun zeroed at … I aim high (below the crosshairs)
How much low or high depends on what that distance is from my zero.
On my Vulcan in .25 which is zeroed at 60 yards … I will aim 1 1/2 mill dots low (above the crosshairs) to hit a 40 yard target.
If I am shooting at a distance farther than what I have the gun zeroed at … I aim high (below the crosshairs)
How much low or high depends on what that distance is from my zero.
On my Vulcan in .25 which is zeroed at 60 yards … I will aim 1 1/2 mill dots low (above the crosshairs) to hit a 40 yard target.
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