Holding my breath or should I say my air. Daystate Type 2 is down

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Loren

Loren

Member
Jan 28, 2018
1,049
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Kansas, United States
I have 17.5 hours on my Daystate type 2 compressor and it is down. It is blowing air out of the 3rd stage over pressure safety valve. I contacted the vendor I purchased the compressor from via email and voice mail (could not reach a live person). Nothing but crickets from them and it has been a day and half. The good news is I contacted Nuvair (the US Coltri dealer) and they helped me trouble shoot the compressor and shipped replacement parts within hours of placing the order for the parts. If I was in the market for a HPA compressor again that kind of support would have me buying from Nuvair.

As for the compressor it sounds like the 4th and 3rd stage valves are leaking back into the cylinders. Should be an easy fix once I have the parts in hand.
 
so the bottom line is you got no service from the place you bought it from and great service from another company and you over $3000.00 compressor crapped out on you early in it's life and I assume you are paying for all this

so how do you feel about that compressor, in my book that shouldn't have happen and in 17.5 hours will it do the same thing or worse

well I'm sorry you are having trouble I would be pi$$ed


 
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The type 2 is a 220V 4 stage unit with three times the out rate of the LC-110.

It has an additional pressure relieve valve on the 3rd stage.

Yes, I am paying for the parts. Not really mad...a little disappointed with the compressor needing service work already. Not happy with the original vender I bought the compressor from in the first place. I have done business with Nuvair before and they have always been top shelf. Just saying they would be my go to for a HPA compressor. I will fix it, nothing but a time out while I wait for parts to arrive. I think I have enough air bottled to servive a mild zombie out break...lol, but still feel like holding my air until I get the compressor back running.

As I tell people, air is free until you start compressing it!!! 


 
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Sorry to hear about your Daystate issues :-( And the poor support from the seller. Glad to hear Nuvair is providing assistance, and the repair will be easy, really good news! I found Nuvair to be very knowledgeable about the Coltri, but they were not happy about the Daystate Compressors being sold in the US and I was not sure if they would provide any type of service. Great to hear you had no issues. Nuvair may be our saving grace for parts and repairs. 
 
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Parts arrived yesterday...Yippee.

Here is the 4 stage Pump removed from the chassis. The fourth stage is pointed down in the photo.



Here is the fitting pointing down in the above photo, removed from the head. It has the valve spring on it and the outlet ports in it. 



Here is looking into the top of the fourth stage head. The square piece with the circle imprinted on it is the valve plate.



If you look close you can see it is cracked.



New valve plate next to the removed cracked valve plate.



Inside the 4th stage head with the valve plate removed.



New valve plate in place. It just sits there and then the spring holds it in place onnce the valve fitting with spring is installed.



Fourth stage valve fitting reinstalled.

<a href="https://imgur.com/xeGoBdw"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The third stage head.

<a href="https://imgur.com/KcZbARk"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Third stage head removed with new spring installed.

<a href="https://imgur.com/pUkeOsn"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The third stage head is different and has this valve disk sandwhiched between the head and cylinder.

<a href="https://imgur.com/Qf7yaVC"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

New valve plate installed with spring for third stage.

<a href="https://imgur.com/6aNkHgo"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>



The third stage valve looked fine other than being dirty. Since I was "there" I went ahead and replaced it and the spring. The third stage over pressure valve was just fine and I did not replace it. 

This is not really a tough service/repair. It is a little tedious just removing the cage, belt card and then the pump from the chassis of the compressor.

I did learn the electrical connector going into the bottom of the pressure guage is kind of a quick disconnect with only needing one screw in the center of it of it to be removed and then the connector unplugs from the guage. Remove that and the air line from the guage at the water seperator and get the cage untethered from the chassis. It will save some hassles....don't ask me how I know...lol

Compressor is all back together and I can breath again ans fill bottle and shoot as much as I want...Life is good!!!

By the way I never receive a response from Airguns of Arizona to my email or the voice mail I left for their tech support. 

My email to them asking for help. My voice mail from much the same. I could never get a live person on the phone.

"Hello,

I have a Daystate type 2 compressor and the 3rd stage safety valve has failed or opened. Can it be reset or is there a piece of hardware that needs replaced in the valve or does the valve need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Loren"

I recommend buying your high head HPA compressors from Nuvair.
 
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Glad this was resolved.

AOA responded to my email and sent the replacement part I needed in a few days. They did call me based on the email but I wasn't available so they just sent the part out. That was warranty on the LC-110 and the 330 bar overpressure relief valve was leaking well before it reached 310 bar. It was very easy to swap and fixed the problem.

They do seem fairly busy.

I wonder if the airgun vendors really understand they need to provide a high level of service and inventory plenty of parts for HPA compressors. Perhaps they are not accustomed to the level of maintenance and support these machines require.

At least with Coltri we have options for vendors and parts will be available into the future. Our experience with many China manufacturers is that parts aren't available down the road - once they have changed the design the old parts are gone, and they change designs quite often without having good model numbers or documentation to track things.
 
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I had really good support from Ray at CompressorStuff.com. Another Coltri dealer to consider. There are many Coltri dealers.

Ideally selecting a dealer within driving distance would be excellent. Shipping one of these compressors is not a desired situation. In my case AOA and CompressorStuff are each about 700 miles away, so driving is possible but not very attractive.

The other consideration is 120V 15A compatibility. I don't need 3x faster pumping but I do prefer 120V 15A. Not all dealers have an option at that level. However they all have 220V options if you want to go that way.


 
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I have a theory that a light duty cycle results in longevity where the duty cycle ends at 300 bar. After the FLIR images I took of 90 cu-in 0PSI -> 4500 PSI and stage 3 cylinder heatsink temperatures I'm inclined to think during extended runtimes there's a bit of oil bake-off out the air intake. In the case here there seems to be a fair amount of carbon deposits on the spring and what I assume is metal fatigue on the plate to the valve perhaps thermally accelerated?

MTBF seems to be accelerated at increased pressure at increased runtime. Charles law and Boyle's law and all that stuff. From time to time it feels like we're engaging in a Scientific Cargo Cult in the Compressors sub-forum and we're loosely applying fallacy of causation with fallacy of composition to the vocal few through sampling bias. Granted mechanical things break but I'm inclined to believe a light duty cycle results in equipment longevity? Failing that we really ought to start recording thermal data on fatigue failure?

Also no insult intended in the above; I'm scratching my head thinking about the how and why.
 
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I would think that after reviewing LMNOP’s excellent Flir photos, that 260F at 310bar would take care of any moisture issues in the oil. Maybe these scuba compressors that fill a standard scuba tank to 3000psi are really getting a workout going to 4500 like mentioned above. It looks like to my untrained eye that there is some carbon build up going on internally. Could that be heat cooking the oil? Just asking.
 
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Filling tanks warms things up, but not filling guns.

Many scuba tanks run 3500 psi.

SCBA tanks run 4500 psi, these compressors are designed for that as well.

3 stages of 7:1 compression produces about 340 bar.

Frustrating to see these failures. Wish we could track failures per liter for the various compressors to get some real data.

17 hours on the Daystate type 2 is like 50 hours on the LC-110 or ??? on a Yong Heng or about 300 hours or more on a Shoebox.
 
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I would think that after reviewing LMNOP’s excellent Flir photos, that 260F at 310bar would take care of any moisture issues in the oil. Maybe these scuba compressors that fill a standard scuba tank to 3000psi are really getting a workout going to 4500 like mentioned above. It looks like to my untrained eye that there is some carbon build up going on internally. Could that be heat cooking the oil? Just asking.
Click to expand...

That's my theory -- I'm going to expand on my theory a bit with the intent of open discourse and not to shame, offend, or demean anyone.

I believe that duty cycle and thermal failure rates correlate directly. I believe that any compressor that fails to list it's duty cycle results in a subjective failure rate where the subject is the run environment and run duration.

I believe that moisture in guns leading to damage is significantly less (by several orders of magnitude) than compressor failure for the reasons of thermal failure as a result of Charles law and Boyle's law. I believe anything that obstructs compressed air output increases the work load on a compressor. I believe that moisture filters after the LC-110 are unnecessary.

I believe that hand pumping is horrible. There's a reason why we invented machines to do hard work for us. So long as the scale of that hard work is reasonable we don't have issues. I believe the failures we observe are a result of too much too quickly.

I believe the issue we have is industry wide overstatement of capability as a result of market gap around consumer grade compressors. I own a MCH-3/LC-110 and I like it. I believe based on my limited understanding of physics that due to a lack of failure data and/or MTBF and/or duty cycle data that we end up with thermal buildup resulting in equipment failure.

I believe thermal buid-up and heat entropy exchange is the root cause for failure in many of the cases we observe. I also believe that painting a heatsink black or painting a heat sink at all can produce thermal build up.

Again, this is all theory and I'm highly likely to be incorrect. I believe we're not going to get anything that is 90 pounds or less that runs from 100-300V capable of compressing ~large volume tanks repeatedly reliably over a large span of time. Knowing those limitations allows us to correctly scale the work duty cycle for the compressor.
 
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