Help with pellet spiral

"peole"It is very surprizing to me that people are still looking at air gun pellet spiraling as defect - "they all do it":

http://www.google.com/search?q=daystate+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=marauder+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=hatsan+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=condor+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=fx+pellet+spiraling

Some owners admit it, some deny, most dont know about it.

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I know that with it's pellet of choice my once owned marauder, and currently owned S500 and EV2 show no signs of spiraling from 10-55yds. After that maybe as they shoot at 11fpe with 8.4g pellets. How do I know? I test every yard from 1-25, then every three out to 55 for my clicks. When I do my part the pellets intersect the cross hairs.

As for every pellet spiraling, sure. Once destabilized due to to much or too little speed, more or less twist etc it even happens to PB rounds. That's why we test and test and test and either find out what works or move on to the next platform.

Carpp, in the second picture of your first reply, the far left pellet seams to have a small bit of something coming back from the pellet head, and either it's shadow or another bump just at the lower part of the waist on the same plane. If this is lead dragged from the pellet then there is your answer. This could be from an alignment issue with the magazine, the pellet probe pushing them into the chamber out of square, or a bur in the transfer port area.

I get the slight impression you might be from the UK, Carpp ?

(certainly within Europe, judging by your posting time).

If the rifle was sourced within Europe (let's say) then likely it will have a different hammer spring, the UK standard Hammer Spring will only take you 'so far'.

With all other possibilities eliminated...unfortunately, until you push the velocity higher to at least 850fps may not be able to see if the pellets stop spiraling. In one of Ted's videos he mentioned that the MKII()? or the Heavy pellets are very speed sensitive and have to experiment with them. What about lighter pellets? What is your King's velocity? Chairgun says that if you are getting 780fps with the Heavy, your King should be at 900fps with same power setting.

The idea that the gun throws spirals every shot with every pellet at every power level just doesn't sit well with me. Either something should be OBVIOUSLY wrong or maybe we are evaluating the situation incorrectly?

How does the gun group? What do your GROUPS look like with various pellets at various ranges?

From everything you have checked and ruled out, based on one of your photos it looks as though some form of asymetry is present between each of the 5 formed riflings. I say this based on what looks like variations between the depth and width of each rifling impression, particularly noticable on the pellet heads. If they are not uniform, and the rifling is deeper/wider - narrower shallower from one to the next, then the pellet may exit unbalanced and off center, resulting in a less than ideal spiral that only gets worse the further it has traveled from the muzzle.

I know the crown has a particular shape due to the smooth twist manufacturing process. It just looks like the area in yellow is slightly asymetrical to the rest of the barrell/crown.....like its more rounded and not as defined in its angles. Can you get help where you bought it from?

Plz post pictures of the outside of your barrel end.

Groups... What do your groups look like?

Gents...how are you going to measure and confirm that "asymmetry" exists at the barrel end? I think that possibility is way way down the list, and more likely options should be eliminated first...

Did I miss from from the previous posts...but did this rifle ever shoot decent groups at 100 yards and then things went down after that? How did the much lighter pellets perform?

Left hand twist pentagonal ......interesting.

Thurmond

fe7565Gents...how are you going to measure and confirm that "asymmetry" exists at the barrel end? I think that possibility is way way down the list, and more likely options should be eliminated first...

Did I miss from from the previous posts...but did this rifle ever shoot decent groups at 100 yards and then things went down after that? How did the much lighter pellets perform?

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He checked;
5 different pellet types...
Crown for burrs...
Transfer port for issues...
Results with/without LDC...
Results by single loading...
Scrutinized cleaning method...
Varied power wheel...
Reviewed flight patterns by scope-cam...
Removed crown protector to assess rifle forming imprints...
Varied velocity up to limit of 780 fps...

It's relatively easy to check for gross asymetry by checking the diameter at 5 points around the pellet with a micrometer.

He said it grouped marginally since new.

You brought up a good point... he is unable to test above 780 fps due to his European version.

I mentioned asymetry because he HAS covered a LOT of other bases, and is running out of options.

Hope he sorts it out.

peoleIt is very surprizing to me that people are still looking at air gun pellet spiraling as defect - "they all do it":

http://www.google.com/search?q=daystate+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=marauder+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=hatsan+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=condor+pellet+spiraling

http://www.google.com/search?q=fx+pellet+spiraling

Some owners admit it, some deny, most dont know about it.

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Spiraling=good...

corkscrewing and flailing about like a drunken bumblebee=bad.

"Ziabeam"
He said it grouped marginally since new.

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What does that mean? Frankly I've asked repeatedly in the thread how the damn thing groups and have never gotten a response. His marginally might be my superb or vice versa. How does the damn thing group? I feel like I am talking to a troll here, or someone who just wants to tell me every single way that it is impossible to solve this problem. We have discussed every possible solution and he has tried them ALL but NONE of them work. Then you ask him how the gun groups and you don't get any real answer. You want help? HOW DOES THE GUN GROUP... Pictures are nice. What do 100 yard groups look like?

-- carpp "Ive got a spiralling pellet issue with my .25 fx 500 at 50 yards it groups nicely but beyond that pellets start to spiral wildly"

I humbly offer the following thoughts...

The way a football can spiral depends wholly on the way the football is built. A perfect throw, while helpful, will make a ball spiral, but only a well balanced football allows that spiral to last. Similarly, well balanced properly spun pellets will always spiral in a finite, stable, repeatable fashion without becoming unstable. (wobbling or corkscrewing).
They will continue to perform in this reliable manner, until a variable alters that reliability.

Unstable (corkscrewing/wobbling) pellets are either;

• unbalanced out of the tin
• damaged during loading
• damaged by the crown
• disrupted by turbulence or deflection of muzzle device
• exiting with their rotational mass not centered along their own axis (asymmetrical center of rotation) caused by poor rifling, excessive fouling, non-uniform pellet hardness, or induced by aerodynamic design not compatible with speed and envelope of the projectile.
• Velocity will compensate for under-rotation (slow twist) up to a point. Over-rotation will always demand more concentric precision of mass on the projectile's part.

From my perspective every pellet fired in carpp's videos exhibited an uncannily similar corkscrew/flight path, almost as though the same distorted pellet was fired over and over and over... or, more probable, every single pellet was distorted in the same way, by the same anomaly in the barrel.

"Ziabeam"
He said it grouped marginally since new.

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oldspook
What does that mean? Frankly I've asked repeatedly in the thread how the damn thing groups and have never gotten a response. ....How does the damn thing group? .....You want help? HOW DOES THE GUN GROUP... Pictures are nice. What do 100 yard groups look like?

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carpp
"Ive got a spiralling pellet issue with my .25 fx 500 at 50 yards it groups nicely but beyond that pellets start to spiral wildly"

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carpp.... im pretty sure the rifle has done it all along, there is no difference with or without the mag the same applies to the air stripper, ive tried jsb 25 grain, h&n barracuda, jsb heavy, fx smooth twist and h&n grizzly all have the same spiral effect some worse than others,

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Yes you have... and no he didn't !!! lol

"Ziabeam"From my perspective every pellet fired in carpp's videos exhibited an uncannily similar corkscrew/flight path, almost as though the same distorted pellet was fired over and over and over... or, more probable, every single pellet was distorted in the same way, by the same anomaly in the barrel.

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Absolutely! They are very consistent, more than that, none of the video shows a complete spiral. What we see looks like a canted scope being shot up into the sky with a cross wind. I see nothing in his video which can serve as a reference to judge the magnitude of the spiral.