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Guns with free floating barrels.

Forums General Discussion Guns with free floating barrels.

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    fishinwrench
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +12

    When I look at a gun with an unsupported barrel/shroud I can't help but think …… "That's fine for a bench rest gun, but it ain't gonna cut it in the woods".

    Seems that a seemingly mild bump on the barrel could easily throw you off zero.

    Is this an issue?   I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be.

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    Gunny994
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +1

    I can vouch for my streamline, I have a 6 in. moderator on the end and I have smacked the barrel into just about everything. It’s been knocked over 3 times, once it landed on rocks and gouged my scope. Zero is still spot on after about 8000 pellets.

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    Springrrrr
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +11

    A slight breeze will move the barrel and change the POI on a Gauntlet.  There are numerous fixes or at least make betters out there ever since the gun came out.

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    vdwb
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +17

    Some barrels that appear to be floating are actually tensioned.

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    guod123
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +15

    This was a major problem for me with the Marauders, after market products and home made mods solved the problem. After market barrel bands and custom shrouds, along with careful handling and transporting in hard cases are a cure for the Gauntlet. It appears as you move up in quality and cost this problem is eliminated.

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    Rocko
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Then explain to me how break barrel spring guns can remain accurate when you actually pull on the barrel to cock it ? 

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    kayaker
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +28

    Rocko     They are a whole different apparatus look at the thickness of the barrel : springer vs pcp even a person acting like a gorilla can screw them up lol .

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    nomojo65
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +23

    Got to love that…!, ROCKO I agree, actually I believe that a shrouded barrel gives more opportunity for POI changes or accuracy issues? I know some big Manufacturers make it work (and well!) but… 

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    donwalk
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +1

    i made a bushing for barrel/shroud and have had no problems yet. part of the solution lies in properly securing when assembling and maintaining.

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    elh0102
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +50

    I have a long history or squirrel hunting with .22 rimfire rifles. During the last few years, in retirement, I have done most of my squirrel hunting with air rifles. These have included: Daystate Regal, FX Crown, Daystate Red Wolf, RAW HM1000, Steyr Challenge Hunting. I'll offer a few observations. First and foremost, all are much more susceptible to POI changes from dings in the woods, when compared to the typical rimfire sporter rifles. My most robust rifle would be the Steyr, assuming no suppressor, and it's a floating barrel. The manner of attachment to the receiver of most all air rifle barrels is relatively weak. Factoring in barrel liners, sleeves, shrouds, and suppressors, the difference may be great. All of this is rifle specific. My only advice, if you hunt with an air rifle, be careful with it. With rare exception, if you bang it around, you will have a POI change, maybe a little, maybe a lot. 

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    lhandy
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +0

    That’s what I love about my R3 .22 Matador. I was shooting in my driveway one day and dropped it from about 2’ right on the end of the barrel. I was so pissed at myself I could have cried. I loaded a pellet and took a shot to see how much the POI had shifted. To my amazement the gun was dead on no shift at all. To this day the gun is still a 3/8” to 1/2” at 50 yds shooter. 

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    fishinwrench
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +12

    I've turned away from a dozen rifles because of that.  I see that barrel hanging out from the receiver with no support whatsoever and I can't get myself to do it.  

    My guns live a different life than most apparently, because it sure seems to be a popular build design.   Not that I am incapable of being careful with my guns but I do way more than just carry them from a case in my truck to the shooting bench at the range.  

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    golfer70
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +2

    As pretty as the FX Crown is I can’t imagine swinging that flimsy looking barrel to receiver connection around for fear of wacking it in something. Give us a second point of contact for reinforcement. It makes for a more robust and reassuring look. 

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    johnson71237
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +0

    Good discussion guys. I am a new Marauder shooter, kind of, and I am wondering if there is a source for a barrel band support that does not have an attachment rail. 

    Thanks!

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    LDP
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +44

    kayaker

    Rocko     They are a whole different apparatus look at the thickness of the barrel : springer vs pcp even a person acting like a gorilla can screw them up lol .

    Depends on the pcp you are talking about. The maurader has a very thin barrel but BSA pcp rifles have very thick barrels that get bothered by bumps or leaning them against objects. 

     

    I prefer no barrel band but I dont mind my AA S510 that has one. The problem you have with barrel bands actually causes the problem you think the barrel band removes. Most people eventually find out when you bump a pcp with a barrel band hard enough on the barrel it causes the rifle to be knocked off zero. The barrel band is secured by a couple small grub screws usually and a hard enough bump causes the band to be shifted which then causes the barrel to be pushed off in that direction while the grub screws hold the band in its new location applying the pressure to the barrel. I have several free float or tensioned barrels that have no barrel band and have never had a problem out in the field from bumps and I do use my airguns in the same terrain I elk hunt in. On the other hand I have had my S510 barrel be knocked off and needed to be reset to gain my zero back even tho it has the barrel band due to my previous explanation. 

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    addertooth
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +40

    Oddly, the Marauder is less prone to point of impact drift, if the shroud is not overtightened.  When something is highly stressed, drift in location is more likely.  A looser shroud gives a more consistent point of impact, and less susceptibility to drift after being bumped.  A totally relaxed barrel is the most consistent.

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    Rocko
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    I'm well aware of the issue. I have a Hatsan AT44 that I bought 4 or 5 yrs ago.  When I first got it & sighted it in, I wasn't real satisfied with the accuracy, so I removed both barrel bands.  The point of impact dropped about 4" at 30 yds which proved to me that the barrel bands were pushing the barrel upward.  Now it is a tack driver.  I've done the same with all my PCP's & have had good success with no POI shifts.

     

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    fishinwrench
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +12

    Well technically a shrouded barrel is still free floating…..inside the shroud.   But I still feel the need to support the shroud.

    It just makes mechanical (and engineering) sense.  Especially if the rifle is to be used for hunting anything except starlings off your back porch.

    Without doing so, every little bump and turn has to be causing flex right at the barrel/breech connection.   Try shooting pool with one hand.

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    LDP
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +44

    fishinwrench comparing shooting pool one handed to a barrel with no band is a very bad analogy. Pool sticks thrust forward hitting a ball and need the second support from your other hand in order to slide forward and stay on track. A barrel doesnt slide unless its a reciprocating barrel but thats only found in firearms not airguns that I am aware of. The one firearm I have experience with that uses a reciprocating barrel is the Barrett m82 50 cal rifle and it doesnt have a barrel band either.  You are correct about a bump putting stress or pressure at the point the barrel enters the receiver but thats also the case even with a barrel band. Barrel bands are not permanently fixed they are held by little grub screws. A bump hard enough to cause problems with an unsupported barrel will certainly cause the same issues with a thinner and more flexible barrel that has a barrel band for support. Another poster pointed it out in an earlier post that break barrel air rifles are cocked by the barrels and people shoot thousands of times with their break barrel airguns. Putting that much stress on break barrels doesnt cause accuracy issues or damage to the barrel. I take my airguns out into the woods to hunt and I hunt some thick and rough elk and mule deer country with my airguns and I have hit the barrels with no issues with my non banded rifles. I have had issues with my banded rifles as others have also when they get bumped and the barrel band is tweaked off center causing the barrel to be pushed out of alignment and causing loss of zero.

    I wont argue whats best for you because thats your opinion and you have to use what you feel works for you. I will say that barrel bands do not make your air rifles stronger, more accurate or less prone to bumps causing accuracy issues. Like I said already if you hit a barrel that doesnt have a barrel band hard enough to cause an issue it will still cause an issue with a barrel band. Thats from my own personal experience not opinion and there are many others who have posted with the same results. Another thing to think about is if not having barrel bands was a bad idea why are so many pcp rifles not using barrel bands including many of the top brands held in very high regards for durability and accuracy. 

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    vdwb
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +17

    Jim Gaska of Wicked Air Rifles uses a barrel tensioning device that threads on to your barrel(1/2×20) and creates tension on barrel using the shroud. His barrels are secured at the breech with a locking fastener instead of set screws and this set up is very accurate but it looks like the barrel is hanging with no support.

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