Gen1 .22 Mrod Testing: Stock vs SS valve

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Dairyboy

Dairyboy

Member
Jul 23, 2016
5,650
4,177
Washington, United States
I will be getting a SS Valve from ART designed by Travis and Lloyd soon to do some more tests on a .22. When they tested the .22 it was before they opened the orifice (think thats the right word??) on the valve so now instead of only being able to tune with a bell curve can now make a Korean cliff. He's very busy with other prototype valves like Prod and Kral and who knows what other ones so I'll be helping with some numbers on the .22. 

Recently got a Gen1 .22 Mrod in a trade with Rocker1. It's bone stock nothing done to it. Heck don't even think it was tuned at all or ran over the chrony lol being his personal gun think he just enjoyed shooting it which is something I wish I could do sometimes. Started out with a 3000psi fill and it was shooting at 785fps at 14.3gr CPHPs with a declining curve. Found it had the hammer spring 7 turns in and the valve adjustment only 2 turns out. Hammer throw was all the way against the hammer. Because I'm doing some simple testing right now decided to K.I.S.S. 

Opened the valve adjustment 5 turns, hammer throw the same all the way back against the hammer and hammer spring all the way back. I then shot this string. When I get the other valve I'm going to do the same settings for a true side by side comparison.

Created: 09-05-2017 05:33:40 PM
Description: gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: bone stock 3000-1400psi HT=0 HS=0 Valve adjustment 5 turns out.
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 14.300
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 90 °F
BP: 29.94 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
60 819 21.32 11.36
59 825 21.62 11.80
58 830 21.88 11.87
57 846 22.73 12.10
56 853 23.11 12.20
55 862 23.60 12.33
54 862 23.60 12.33
53 871 24.09 12.46
52 877 24.43 12.54
51 881 24.65 12.60
50 887 24.99 12.68
49 888 25.04 12.70
48 890 25.16 12.73
47 898 25.61 12.84
46 900 25.72 12.87
45 908 26.18 12.98
44 909 26.24 13.00
43 908 26.18 12.98
42 916 26.65 13.10
41 894 25.38 12.78
40 911 26.36 13.03
39 910 26.30 13.01
38 917 26.70 13.11
37 914 26.53 13.07
36 919 26.82 13.14
35 922 27.00 13.18
34 919 26.82 13.14
33 911 26.36 13.03
32 904 25.95 12.93
31 916 26.65 13.10
30 905 26.01 12.94
29 906 26.07 12.96
28 895 25.44 12.80
27 885 24.87 12.66
26 898 25.61 12.84
25 897 25.55 12.83
24 879 24.54 12.57
23 869 23.98 12.43
22 889 25.10 12.71
21 862 23.60 12.33
20 881 24.65 12.60
19 862 23.60 12.33
18 877 24.43 12.54
17 871 24.09 12.46
16 860 23.49 12.30
15 853 23.11 12.20
14 850 22.95 12.15
13 830 21.88 11.87
12 835 22.14 11.94
11 855 23.22 12.23
10 842 22.52 12.04
9 846 22.73 12.10
8 848 22.84 12.13
7 830 21.88 11.87
6 830 21.88 11.87
5 831 21.93 11.88
4 810 20.84 11.58
3 825 21.62 11.80
2 810 20.84 11.58
1 822 21.46 11.75
Average: 877.88
StdDev: 33.24
Min: 810
Max: 922
Spread: 112
True MV: 878.08
Shots/sec: 0.41
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
Here's my 28-30fpe string. I'm impressed honestly with the consistency but she used alot of air. Gun is degassed now will be tore apart so when the other valve comes it will go in and pressure test overnight before testing.

BTW not going off of gun gauges at all on the pressure readings leaving the fill hose pressurized on my JoeB valve so I get more accurate readings.

Created: 09-06-2017 04:46:02 PM
Description: Gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: 3100-1700psi
Notes 2: HT-0CW HS-2CW VA-5CCW
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 85 °F
BP: 29.88 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
40 832 27.87 15.08
39 836 28.14 15.16
38 841 28.48 15.25
37 848 28.95 15.37
36 854 29.36 15.48
35 863 29.99 15.65
34 865 30.13 15.68
33 ERROR 2
32 877 30.97 15.90
31 ERROR 2
30 880 31.18 15.95
29 885 31.54 16.05
28 888 31.75 16.10
27 891 31.96 16.15
26 892 32.04 16.17
25 895 32.25 16.23
24 894 32.18 16.21
23 892 32.04 16.17
22 890 31.89 16.14
21 890 31.89 16.14
20 891 31.96 16.15
19 884 31.46 16.03
18 888 31.75 16.10
17 884 31.46 16.03
16 884 31.46 16.03
15 876 30.90 15.88
14 872 30.62 15.81
13 873 30.69 15.83
12 868 30.34 15.74
11 862 29.92 15.63
10 868 30.34 15.74
9 860 29.78 15.59
8 861 29.85 15.61
7 852 29.23 15.45
6 856 29.50 15.52
5 853 29.30 15.46
4 844 28.68 15.30
3 839 28.34 15.21
2 847 28.89 15.36
1 837 28.21 15.17
Average: 868.74
StdDev: 19.47
Min: 832
Max: 895
Spread: 63
True MV: 868.93
Shots/sec: 0.36
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
Upvote 0
Interesting string. The .22 Gen 1 I recently sent to Travis was a bit faster, and a bit more consistent than you show here. All I had done with it was install a TSS and replace the transfer port with a .25 caliber one. 

I didn't keep the string data, but the JBS 18.13 grains were hovering around 925 FPS with about 14 FPS SD. That about 35 FPE which is fairly good for a .22. Fifty yard groups were about 5/8 inches or so if I did my part. 
 
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What I like to do is start with the hammer spring at all the way backed out as well as the hammer striker so both all the way CCW. The turn hammer spring in 2 CW. For the valve I'd unscrew the first set screw all the way to get to the bottom one that adjusts the air flow. Screw it in all the way CW then 4 turns CCW. Put the other set screw back in and just make it snug so you don't move the one underneath. My guess is it should get you close to a good 28-30 fpe tune if that's what your looking for. I wouldn't touch the valve adjustment after that and just tune by hammer spring personally.
 
Upvote 0
"Dairyboy"What I like to do is start with the hammer spring at all the way backed out as well as the hammer striker so both all the way CCW. The turn hammer spring in 2 CW. For the valve I'd unscrew the first set screw all the way to get to the bottom one that adjusts the air flow. Screw it in all the way CW then 4 turns CCW. Put the other set screw back in and just make it snug so you don't move the one underneath. My guess is it should get you close to a good 28-30 fpe tune if that's what your looking for. I wouldn't touch the valve adjustment after that and just tune by hammer spring personally.
Click to expand...
Many thanks!
Anxious to try this out.
28-30 fpe is ideal for my needs.
 
Upvote 0
Here's some basic tunes I haven't done any fine tuning. Everything is stock except valve. .140 ports which is stock on this Gen1 .22. Can you say QUIET? I am very impressed with this valve. If you play with port sizes the unregulated you can get some huge power! Regulated I can't even imagine how many shots I can get. I will be using this valve in my Gen2 .22 and as it will be regulated so I will have results with that as well. What I'm impressed with is low pressure power. Also a SSG or TSS isn't even necessary with this valve. No hammer bounce at all.

Created: 09-11-2017 05:18:32 PM
Description: Gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: HS and HT full CCW
Notes 2: 3000-600psi
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 14.300
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 90 °F
BP: 29.99 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
87 704 15.74 10.07
86 728 16.83 10.41
85 744 17.58 10.64
84 764 18.54 10.93
83 787 19.67 11.25
82 806 20.63 11.53
81 825 21.62 11.80
80 845 22.68 12.08
79 859 23.43 12.28
78 877 24.43 12.54
77 879 24.54 12.57
76 885 24.87 12.66
75 896 25.50 12.81
74 902 25.84 12.90
73 911 26.36 13.03
72 920 26.88 13.16
71 928 27.35 13.27
70 937 27.88 13.40
69 944 28.30 13.50
68 952 28.78 13.61
67 962 29.39 13.76
66 955 28.96 13.66
65 962 29.39 13.76
64 974 30.13 13.93
63 973 30.07 13.91
62 975 30.19 13.94
61 982 30.62 14.04
60 987 30.94 14.11
59 997 31.57 14.26
58 1002 31.89 14.33
57 995 31.44 14.23
56 995 31.44 14.23
55 988 31.00 14.13
54 984 30.75 14.07
53 985 30.81 14.09
52 980 30.50 14.01
51 976 30.25 13.96
50 969 29.82 13.86
49 964 29.51 13.79
48 955 28.96 13.66
47 950 28.66 13.59
46 942 28.18 13.47
45 940 28.06 13.44
44 932 27.59 13.33
43 902 25.84 12.90
42 921 26.94 13.17
41 906 26.07 12.96
40 896 25.50 12.81
39 892 25.27 12.76
38 884 24.82 12.64
37 877 24.43 12.54
36 866 23.82 12.38
35 867 23.87 12.40
34 867 23.87 12.40
33 853 23.11 12.20
32 836 22.20 11.95
31 832 21.98 11.90
30 829 21.83 11.85
29 826 21.67 11.81
28 837 22.25 11.97
27 825 21.62 11.80
26 813 20.99 11.63
25 803 20.48 11.48
24 810 20.84 11.58
23 796 20.12 11.38
22 792 19.92 11.33
21 788 19.72 11.27
20 784 19.52 11.21
19 786 19.62 11.24
18 785 19.57 11.23
17 776 19.12 11.10
16 770 18.83 11.01
15 775 19.07 11.08
14 762 18.44 10.90
13 756 18.15 10.81
12 749 17.82 10.71
11 741 17.44 10.60
10 757 18.20 10.83
9 747 17.72 10.68
8 741 17.44 10.60
7 745 17.63 10.65
6 737 17.25 10.54
5 728 16.83 10.41
4 733 17.06 10.48
3 724 16.65 10.35
2 715 16.24 10.22
1 709 15.96 10.14
Average: 861.55
StdDev: 90.55
Min: 704
Max: 1002
Spread: 298
True MV: 861.75
Shots/sec: 0.25
Group Size (IN): 0.00

Created: 09-11-2017 05:48:20 PM
Description: Gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: 3000-1100psi
Notes 2: 3 turns CW
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 89 °F
BP: 29.99 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
53 818 26.94 14.83
52 833 27.94 15.10
51 846 28.82 15.34
50 842 28.55 15.27
49 853 29.30 15.46
48 868 30.34 15.74
47 874 30.76 15.85
46 884 31.46 16.03
45 894 32.18 16.21
44 907 33.12 16.44
43 914 33.64 16.57
42 918 33.93 16.64
41 929 34.75 16.84
40 924 34.38 16.75
39 934 35.12 16.93
38 935 35.20 16.95
37 941 35.65 17.06
36 947 36.11 17.17
35 954 36.64 17.30
34 956 36.80 17.33
33 958 36.95 17.37
32 965 37.49 17.50
31 964 37.42 17.48
30 968 37.73 17.55
29 968 37.73 17.55
28 971 37.96 17.60
27 966 37.57 17.51
26 976 38.35 17.69
25 964 37.42 17.48
24 964 37.42 17.48
23 963 37.34 17.46
22 961 37.18 17.42
21 949 36.26 17.21
20 947 36.11 17.17
19 956 36.80 17.33
18 944 35.88 17.11
17 939 35.50 17.02
16 923 34.30 16.73
15 922 34.23 16.72
14 916 33.78 16.61
13 899 32.54 16.30
12 905 32.98 16.41
11 868 30.34 15.74
10 898 32.47 16.28
9 878 31.04 15.92
8 861 29.85 15.61
7 861 29.85 15.61
6 857 29.57 15.54
5 846 28.82 15.34
4 831 27.80 15.07
3 826 27.47 14.98
2 823 27.27 14.92
1 820 27.07 14.87
Average: 909.96
StdDev: 49.44
Min: 818
Max: 976
Spread: 158
True MV: 910.17
Shots/sec: 0.30
Group Size (IN): 0.00

Created: 09-11-2017 06:03:15 PM
Description: Gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: 3000-2550psi
Notes 2: 6 turns CW
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
12 1006 40.75 18.24
11 1015 41.48 18.40
10 1010 41.07 18.31
9 1014 41.40 18.38
8 1022 42.05 18.53
7 1020 41.89 18.49
6 1023 42.14 18.55
5 1020 41.89 18.49
4 1016 41.56 18.42
3 1015 41.48 18.40
2 1008 40.91 18.28
1 1009 40.99 18.29
Average: 1014.83
StdDev: 5.69
Min: 1006
Max: 1023
Spread: 17
True MV: 1014.83
Shots/sec: 0.39
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
Upvote 0
Getting closer. This is about 4 turns CW on hammer spring and 6 turns CW on hammer striker. With the stock .140 TP this thing can breathe! 

Created: 09-12-2017 05:57:04 AM
Description: Gen1. 22 Mrod
Notes 1: 2800-1800psi
Notes 2: 
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 60 °F
BP: 29.94 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
30 916 33.78 16.61
29 919 34.01 16.66
28 927 34.60 16.81
27 933 35.05 16.92
26 940 35.58 17.04
25 944 35.88 17.11
24 947 36.11 17.17
23 959 37.03 17.39
22 962 37.26 17.44
21 964 37.42 17.48
20 962 37.26 17.44
19 969 37.81 17.57
18 970 37.88 17.59
17 974 38.20 17.66
16 980 38.67 17.77
15 974 38.20 17.66
14 976 38.35 17.69
13 970 37.88 17.59
12 961 37.18 17.42
11 959 37.03 17.39
10 964 37.42 17.48
9 956 36.80 17.33
8 942 35.73 17.08
7 943 35.80 17.10
6 921 34.15 16.70
5 907 33.12 16.44
4 905 32.98 16.41
3 895 32.25 16.23
2 876 30.90 15.88
1 870 30.48 15.77
Average: 942.83
StdDev: 30.03
Min: 870
Max: 980
Spread: 110
True MV: 942.83
Shots/sec: 0.23
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
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15 shots within 2%~ ES, 19-20 within 3%. That valve doesn't seem to do too well unregulated IMO (at modest power) due to its ability to breathe so well, very limited on the range of PSI that is usable. The SD of 30 is just way too high to be of good use. Can't wait to see you test it in a regulated application! I bet that this valve will do really well once all the bugs are worked out. 

That string is hovering around 1.19 FPE/CI which certainly isn't breaking any new ground in terms of valve efficiency. 

-matt
 
Upvote 0
Yeah it's taking some time to learn how this valve will do unregulated in a .22. It sure can breathe well and very easily. Hammer weight has to do alot with the ES and SD I believe as I have done testing with another valve (Cobra) in my Gen2 and that made a huge difference having the stock hammer VS 45gr MDS. 

I think where we're seeing the efficiency isnt anything crazy is the port size isnt that big for a .22. Once I open it up I do think efficiency will climb. We're restricting it's power rather than opening it up and letting it shine in what it can really do. But just amazed at the power with little spring tension. Got a ways to go unregulated to get to where I like but where this will shine is regulated and I'm hoping to get that done in a week or so.
 
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Honestly your stock valve did better on those long strings.

You went from 1.01 fpe/cuin and 112ES with 14.3 and 1.03 fpe/ciun and 63ES with 18.1 to
.94fpe/cuin and 298ES with 14.3's and 1.02fpe/cuin and 58ES with 18.1's

Not sure who would want to put $300 plus (and labor) into a $500 MRod when you could get a Daystate Regal for $995?

If you want POWER from the MRod just get the (less expensive) proven Cothran Power House valve.

oh well, to each their own I guess
 
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Rob I'm not sure where that's coming from but valves are actually same price as the Cothran valve. Cothrans also create zero bell curve. These weren't tuned strings and if I cut down the strings the Efficiency is definitely more. Also based on your info basically same efficiency at more power also. So I'm not seeing your arguments but that's fine.

Also Regals are now $1099. And I've owned both .22 and .25 of them. I prefer my Mrods.
 
Upvote 0
"Dairyboy"Rob I'm not sure where that's coming from but valves are actually same price as the Cothran valve. Cothrans also create zero bell curve. These weren't tuned strings and if I cut down the strings the Efficiency is definitely more. Also based on your info basically same efficiency at more power also. So I'm not seeing your arguments but that's fine.

Also Regals are now $1099. And I've owned both .22 and .25 of them. I prefer my Mrods.
Click to expand...
Cothran are $150, someone told me these are in the $180 range......plus you apparently need a new hammer and spring, right?

I've seen tuning with the Cothran shooting a bell curve, and some guys reporting efficiencies of 1.4 and up in the over 50fpe range, but if I were buying the Cothran it would be for pure power, not "easier cocking" at low power. If you want easy cocking at low cost why not get an AT44? or other side lever gun? Or use any one of the proven DIY mod's to ease the cocking, instead of spending close to $300?

So neither of the strings were tuned, if you tune the new valve, but not tune the original valve is that a fair comparison?

The 14.3 string with original valve was actually more power, wasn't it? (878fps avg vs 861fps avg)

My argument? No argument, just pointing out what your #'s are showing. And my opinion about putting $$ in a low cost gun.

That's good that you prefer the MRod's, I personally find them "heavy" and "chunky".
 
Upvote 0
In order to tame the peak threw in 3 orings for a Bstaley mod and worked alot better.

Just to clarify for everyone only thing not stock on this gun is the valve and Bstaley orings. Hammer, spring everything else is stock.

Created: 09-14-2017 06:10:32 AM
Description: Gen1 .22 Mrod
Notes 1: 2800-1800psi
Notes 2: HT 3.75 CW HS 6.75 CW
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 59 °F
BP: 29.87 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
50 839 28.34 15.21
49 849 29.02 15.39
48 850 29.09 15.41
47 851 29.16 15.43
46 861 29.85 15.61
45 858 29.64 15.56
44 853 29.30 15.46
43 860 29.78 15.59
42 861 29.85 15.61
41 862 29.92 15.63
40 870 30.48 15.77
39 875 30.83 15.86
38 872 30.62 15.81
37 879 31.11 15.94
36 871 30.55 15.79
35 871 30.55 15.79
34 878 31.04 15.92
33 869 30.41 15.75
32 881 31.25 15.97
31 883 31.39 16.01
30 889 31.82 16.12
29 887 31.68 16.08
28 878 31.04 15.92
27 878 31.04 15.92
26 878 31.04 15.92
25 870 30.48 15.77
24 873 30.69 15.83
23 874 30.76 15.85
22 867 30.27 15.72
21 861 29.85 15.61
20 873 30.69 15.83
19 869 30.41 15.75
18 868 30.34 15.74
17 870 30.48 15.77
16 864 30.06 15.66
15 876 30.90 15.88
14 862 29.92 15.63
13 860 29.78 15.59
12 858 29.64 15.56
11 857 29.57 15.54
10 863 29.99 15.65
9 856 29.50 15.52
8 861 29.85 15.61
7 856 29.50 15.52
6 858 29.64 15.56
5 853 29.30 15.46
4 848 28.95 15.37
3 842 28.55 15.27
2 845 28.75 15.32
1 833 27.94 15.10
Average: 864.40
StdDev: 12.42
Min: 833
Max: 889
Spread: 56
True MV: 864.60
Shots/sec: 0.29
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
Upvote 0
Thanks Rob I agree it's way better than before. Just learning how the valve works in an unregulated smaller bore gun. Before this I wasnt believing that it would work well at all from an unregulated lower powered tune. As you can see from the other tunes the ES was far too great but the peak power was there and at lower pressures. This valve was more designed for high power/regulated guns but nice to see it can work unregulated as well. I think from here moving on to regulated is my next step
 
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