With new guns like the Streamline crossing over into the affordable waters is FX the new apple of airgunnning?
Everyones opinion?
Everyones opinion?
FX taking over the market?
- Thread starter jag159
- Start date
Personally I'm going to say no. I would never say any one company is taking over the market. Although the streamline is a nice gun I'm sure I'd take my Daystate Regal anyday over one. But that's just me and YMMV.
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I guess it's "yes" for me. Two of my three air rifles are both FX's - the 3rd one is a ,22 mood.
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I will also say no, I do not own any FX guns, I may be missing out?
Just take a look at the new or even old Mutants.
I got two Crickets and a Mutant short, (Bull Pups)
I would like to see a side by side test of a lot of guns I look at.
Mike
Just take a look at the new or even old Mutants.
I got two Crickets and a Mutant short, (Bull Pups)
I would like to see a side by side test of a lot of guns I look at.
Mike
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FX has surely taken over my rifle collection. 400,500,Vermy Ext, Independence, Wildcat, Revo (Past rifles - Impact, Streamline, Bobcat, 2nd 400), VS an AA S-510 and Benji 392 pumper. I've got others but, they're all about nostalgia and not so much about accurate shooting.
But, I wouldn't say they are taking over the market. I'd say they are dominating the high end market, competitive in the mid level market. But, the biggest market by far is the low end market which is primarily springers, pumpers, and CO2 that you find in big box retailers.
And, rightfully so IMO. Look at the amount of innovation they bring to the market. FX continues to bring new and creative ideas to us. No, they were not the first to create an arrow shooting airgun. But, when they made theirs they did it "extremely" well (pun intended). I don't think they were the first to bring externally adjustable regulators. But, they did it well. They took these ideas, re-designed them, and made them all work together for the consumer.
Take a close look at their lineup from oldest to newest. You'll see features being introduced along the way. The Cyclone brought a straight pull cocking system. Then the Revo and Monsoon brought in semi-auto. Then, the Royale brought us one of the best designed mag fed bottle gun ever created. Somewhere along the way, the soft touch synthetic stock came out. Then someone at FX said, "Hey lets make a high end pumper!" in comes the Independence. "Lets make a pistol". All the while, their fan base grows, their sales grow, their business grows. This is where the neat stuff starts happening. "Let's make an arrow launcher!" "And, lets do it so it breaks down into a suitcase... and shoots pellets... and comes in both calibers." "Let's go big, .30 cal big" "We need to get a bullpup out to the market." "I think we can make a less expensive, lighter weight, true bullpup that retains accuracy."
"Hey, lets give the shooters what they're asking for... A Bullpup design where you can adjust everything to exactly how you want." Then... later on in the design process, "I have an idea... If we do this, I think we could allow this rifle to be multiple calibers."
Other manufacturers are rehashing the same old technology, doing it in their own special way, and coming out with some really great products. But, they're basically resigning what's already working. So, it's kind of stagnant in that regard. Or, every so many years they look at their rifles and make a slight change. Great rifles, but nothing necessarily new. Gamo Swarm Maxxim - There's something new. A mag fed break barrel. I want one!
I think that's how it goes in the FX factory. "I have an idea" is met with open arms and creative minds. They may not be the first to do a particular thing. But, they dissect it and build it back up it in their own special way and they're not afraid to take chances. Those chances have paid off for them. Sure they've stumbled. It's no secret the Impact had some issues that needed to be sorted out. I haven't been seeing many issues come up lately. The Bobcat had some leak issues that got sorted out as well (and that mis-shaped picatinny rail).
"Hey, let's spend $10,000,000+/- on this neat machine that will allow us to do more, in less time, cost us less per part made, and retain quality, so that we can bring a mid level priced FX quality rifle to the market." Enter, Streamline. I can't think of any real mechanical issues that have come up on this one. Oh sure, you get opinions about length, balance, height, materials. But, mechanically, it's been a winner. Mine sure was. It's these ideas and risks that keep FX at the top.
Forrest Gump, "That's all I've got to say about that."
Happy Shooting,
Tom
Disclaimer: None of these quotes are actual quotes. It's all conjecture on my part.
I'd be REALLY interested to have a peek at some of the failed ideas that FX has come up with in the past!
But, I wouldn't say they are taking over the market. I'd say they are dominating the high end market, competitive in the mid level market. But, the biggest market by far is the low end market which is primarily springers, pumpers, and CO2 that you find in big box retailers.
And, rightfully so IMO. Look at the amount of innovation they bring to the market. FX continues to bring new and creative ideas to us. No, they were not the first to create an arrow shooting airgun. But, when they made theirs they did it "extremely" well (pun intended). I don't think they were the first to bring externally adjustable regulators. But, they did it well. They took these ideas, re-designed them, and made them all work together for the consumer.
Take a close look at their lineup from oldest to newest. You'll see features being introduced along the way. The Cyclone brought a straight pull cocking system. Then the Revo and Monsoon brought in semi-auto. Then, the Royale brought us one of the best designed mag fed bottle gun ever created. Somewhere along the way, the soft touch synthetic stock came out. Then someone at FX said, "Hey lets make a high end pumper!" in comes the Independence. "Lets make a pistol". All the while, their fan base grows, their sales grow, their business grows. This is where the neat stuff starts happening. "Let's make an arrow launcher!" "And, lets do it so it breaks down into a suitcase... and shoots pellets... and comes in both calibers." "Let's go big, .30 cal big" "We need to get a bullpup out to the market." "I think we can make a less expensive, lighter weight, true bullpup that retains accuracy."
"Hey, lets give the shooters what they're asking for... A Bullpup design where you can adjust everything to exactly how you want." Then... later on in the design process, "I have an idea... If we do this, I think we could allow this rifle to be multiple calibers."
Other manufacturers are rehashing the same old technology, doing it in their own special way, and coming out with some really great products. But, they're basically resigning what's already working. So, it's kind of stagnant in that regard. Or, every so many years they look at their rifles and make a slight change. Great rifles, but nothing necessarily new. Gamo Swarm Maxxim - There's something new. A mag fed break barrel. I want one!
I think that's how it goes in the FX factory. "I have an idea" is met with open arms and creative minds. They may not be the first to do a particular thing. But, they dissect it and build it back up it in their own special way and they're not afraid to take chances. Those chances have paid off for them. Sure they've stumbled. It's no secret the Impact had some issues that needed to be sorted out. I haven't been seeing many issues come up lately. The Bobcat had some leak issues that got sorted out as well (and that mis-shaped picatinny rail).
"Hey, let's spend $10,000,000+/- on this neat machine that will allow us to do more, in less time, cost us less per part made, and retain quality, so that we can bring a mid level priced FX quality rifle to the market." Enter, Streamline. I can't think of any real mechanical issues that have come up on this one. Oh sure, you get opinions about length, balance, height, materials. But, mechanically, it's been a winner. Mine sure was. It's these ideas and risks that keep FX at the top.
Forrest Gump, "That's all I've got to say about that."
Happy Shooting,
Tom
Disclaimer: None of these quotes are actual quotes. It's all conjecture on my part.
I'd be REALLY interested to have a peek at some of the failed ideas that FX has come up with in the past!
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but don't you think once they figured out the took over the high and mid end market that they will try and trickle down into the low end? Because they started out redoing the top...now they are moving to redo the middle soon it might be the low end. Just speculation, they might not just to maintain prestige in their name.
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its not cheap to make airguns in sweden and i doubt they will move production to china. so no low end
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The best analogy I can think of is that FX seems to be the Apple of the airgun world. They put out lots of innovative ideas and that in turn pushes the other companies to keep pace with their own new ideas which benefits us all. And just like Apple, once they have saturated the high end market the only place for growth is to move into the mid and lower end of the price spectrum.
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I absolutely 100% agree with Tom's summation of FX as an innovative manufacturer and I applaud them for their approach.
Especially with regards to the Smooth Twist as they could keep their costs down by ordering non-rifles barrels and by implementing the rifling themselves, they can also control the high level of quality (and more importantly, pinpoint and remedy any issues found quicker, because they control the majority of the process).
After watching Matt's YouTube video of the FX factory, it also appears that they use "Just in Time" processes and build the guns according to demand. Which not only ensures that we get the latest models and releases, but it stops them from having capital ties up in large quantities of stock, (where models being superceeded quickly loose their value). Very clever! OK we have to wait longer for new orders, but that is a small price to pay.
Also with regards to people complaining about the cost of these guns, FX not only purchase massive C&C machines, use 3D printing techniques to quickly build accurate prototype components, they shoot EACH gun over 40m to ensure accuracy and performance beyond the majority of distances that the masses will use them at. I for one am happy that I sold two beautiful springer rifles and 3 pistols to have the funds to get a MK 2 Bobcat.
People will always want to bring down innovators to either make themselves feel good or to try and get them to sell at an unrealistically low price, (which is false economy as it strips the capital from a company and removes their ability to fund research and development and therefore continue to innovate). But I also agree with those who highlight current issues as that helps FX know about them sooner and so, take corrective action.
Especially with regards to the Smooth Twist as they could keep their costs down by ordering non-rifles barrels and by implementing the rifling themselves, they can also control the high level of quality (and more importantly, pinpoint and remedy any issues found quicker, because they control the majority of the process).
After watching Matt's YouTube video of the FX factory, it also appears that they use "Just in Time" processes and build the guns according to demand. Which not only ensures that we get the latest models and releases, but it stops them from having capital ties up in large quantities of stock, (where models being superceeded quickly loose their value). Very clever! OK we have to wait longer for new orders, but that is a small price to pay.
Also with regards to people complaining about the cost of these guns, FX not only purchase massive C&C machines, use 3D printing techniques to quickly build accurate prototype components, they shoot EACH gun over 40m to ensure accuracy and performance beyond the majority of distances that the masses will use them at. I for one am happy that I sold two beautiful springer rifles and 3 pistols to have the funds to get a MK 2 Bobcat.
People will always want to bring down innovators to either make themselves feel good or to try and get them to sell at an unrealistically low price, (which is false economy as it strips the capital from a company and removes their ability to fund research and development and therefore continue to innovate). But I also agree with those who highlight current issues as that helps FX know about them sooner and so, take corrective action.
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Well not so much lately but they were originally. Taking other people's ideas and making them better. They didn't invent the smartphone but they made it what it is today. I'm no fanboy of Apple but that much is true.
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No. Cheap springers is as far as most guys get. Then cheap CO2 and low end pcps.
The $1000+ Airgun is rare indeed, but I have pair
The $1000+ Airgun is rare indeed, but I have pair
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When I was in the market for a bullpup, the Bobcat was my first choice. They're a little too dear, though.
Wildcat doesn't have adjustable power.
Kral Puncher Breaker (tuned) ticked all my boxes. Turkish labor is no doubt cheaper, but their fit, finish, quality and innovation are not as good.
My buddy Douger just got his second Royale 400; it's really nice. Powerful, accurate, well-finished, and as someone else said before, the cocking action is almost impossibly smooth and light.
Wildcat doesn't have adjustable power.
Kral Puncher Breaker (tuned) ticked all my boxes. Turkish labor is no doubt cheaper, but their fit, finish, quality and innovation are not as good.
My buddy Douger just got his second Royale 400; it's really nice. Powerful, accurate, well-finished, and as someone else said before, the cocking action is almost impossibly smooth and light.
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Most guys stop at pumpers they had as kids, then write off airguns and buy powderburners when they grow up.
Only the elite are open-minded enough to try "adult airguns."
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mine was a benjamin 312 or 342 bought new in 1972ish, it was the best in the neighborhood. Everyone else had Crosman 760s but they had real wood stocks back then. Springers were not available locally back then."Smaug"
Most guys stop at pumpers they had as kids, then write off airguns and buy powderburners when they grow up.
Only the elite are open-minded enough to try "adult airguns."
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like i said lol....FX is the apple of airguns...cant wait to get my streamline in..first thing I'm doing is installing the mounts on it.
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I don't see any single manufacturer "taking over the market"
I do see a lot of really great competition happening currently and I love it! All of us benefit from it!
I've said it before; 2017 is going to be (and has been so far) amazing for air-gunning.
Strap in, hold on and don't forget to enjoy!
Matt
I do see a lot of really great competition happening currently and I love it! All of us benefit from it!
I've said it before; 2017 is going to be (and has been so far) amazing for air-gunning.
Strap in, hold on and don't forget to enjoy!
Matt
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Hate to be a pessimist here but its just my humble opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
-2017 hasn't been all that great...just imo, maybe 2018 will be, but I'd hold off and say it'll start getting good after 2020, if even by then..
-I think shot count increasing from 2015-2016 was bigger for the air gunning community than anything done so far in 2017. And trust me I am keeping my eyes wide open and waiting for something ground breaking to happen. The FX Smooth twist which is nothing new was more innovative than anything done this year as well.
There is ALWAYS going to be new releases, and there will always be something bigger and better, its how any market works, otherwise it becomes dry, because the community in most any market is limited, and while that community is passionate about their hobby/love, they are what keep the wheels/gears moving.
If you want to go into business, and think 1 product will make you billions for a business life that's longer than you and your children's lives without ever upgrading / updating models and ideas, you're out of your mind. Its the nature of a this type of business, just like automobiles.
Is FX leading the forefront in air gunning innovation? Well...the new barrel liner idea really isn't that innovative nor is it ground breaking, doesn't really solve any existing issues, if you want a specific twist rate and barrel length you can get that done without the need for said technology, so imo this technology will becoming obsolete in a matter of time. I don't think companies are waiting for the patent to run out on this one...
Airguns have been around since 1780 which is 237 years...automobiles have been around since 1870, which is 147 years, and look at all the bells and whistles they have, and how far they have gone, self driving now, albeit they are at a much higher use rate... Are our rifles out hunting for us? LOL no. Do they self-adjust power based on the shot your taking to minimize energy remaining after going through target? Are perfectly balanced electronic valves and triggers fairly common/normal which are far superior to most current valve/trigger systems used? No. Are hammer-less semi-auto air guns common? No. I can go on and on. Air guns and their tech isn't THAT evolved.
We have a ways to catch up, and until we do, I'd bite my tongue on praising the current companies too much as imo they are slacking.
-2017 hasn't been all that great...just imo, maybe 2018 will be, but I'd hold off and say it'll start getting good after 2020, if even by then..
-I think shot count increasing from 2015-2016 was bigger for the air gunning community than anything done so far in 2017. And trust me I am keeping my eyes wide open and waiting for something ground breaking to happen. The FX Smooth twist which is nothing new was more innovative than anything done this year as well.
There is ALWAYS going to be new releases, and there will always be something bigger and better, its how any market works, otherwise it becomes dry, because the community in most any market is limited, and while that community is passionate about their hobby/love, they are what keep the wheels/gears moving.
If you want to go into business, and think 1 product will make you billions for a business life that's longer than you and your children's lives without ever upgrading / updating models and ideas, you're out of your mind. Its the nature of a this type of business, just like automobiles.
Is FX leading the forefront in air gunning innovation? Well...the new barrel liner idea really isn't that innovative nor is it ground breaking, doesn't really solve any existing issues, if you want a specific twist rate and barrel length you can get that done without the need for said technology, so imo this technology will becoming obsolete in a matter of time. I don't think companies are waiting for the patent to run out on this one...
Airguns have been around since 1780 which is 237 years...automobiles have been around since 1870, which is 147 years, and look at all the bells and whistles they have, and how far they have gone, self driving now, albeit they are at a much higher use rate... Are our rifles out hunting for us? LOL no. Do they self-adjust power based on the shot your taking to minimize energy remaining after going through target? Are perfectly balanced electronic valves and triggers fairly common/normal which are far superior to most current valve/trigger systems used? No. Are hammer-less semi-auto air guns common? No. I can go on and on. Air guns and their tech isn't THAT evolved.
We have a ways to catch up, and until we do, I'd bite my tongue on praising the current companies too much as imo they are slacking.
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