FX Smooth Twist and Slugs (rethinking an FX Purchase)

"Saltlake58"I'm looking at the future of airgunning. I want to buy a new, ultra accurate gun, so the Crown seemed to fit that bill. I'm rethinking and need input to figure this out.
​The web page at Nielson Speciality Ammo, a maker of airgun bullets / slugs specifically states NOT to put these through Smooth Twist or Smooth Twist X barrels. I can understand this as the smooth twist barrels squeeze the pellet skirt into a pentagram shape, as the skirts are extremely soft and malleable. A bullet might fire, but could damage the barrel over time, and accuracy would be an issue.
​Here's my question. Criteria is an ultra accurate PCP gun and if possible, adjustable like a Crown. Had my heart set on a crown, but want to be able to fire slugs in the future. Here are my questions:
​1. Would a Smooth Twist fire slugs accurately
​2. What rifles would you recommend for both pellets and slugs? 
I could see a RAW, or a Daystate or maybe Air Arms in my future, but want really, really super accurate so if I miss, I know it's me and not the gun.
I don't hunt much, so mostly bench or target.
​Oh, it needs to shoot accurately at least 100 yards. Current gun shoots well at 75, but I want at least 100 yards accuracy.
What are your thoughts?????

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Some time back Matt had put up a video where he spoke of the NSA slugs delivering epic performance in the FX Crown. I tried finding the link on YouTube but it’s gone now. Says the video is unavailable. Was preety excited that he was testing the NSA slugs. 

if you want a pure slug gun and are willing to work a little to tune one, check the Huben https://youtu.be/i807-jyVF70 seems like a promising gun which can shoot well. The Daystate and others you mentioned are also super Guns. The Huben caught my eye cause it’s new and hammerless. 

Why wouldn't it work in the Smooth twist x barrels? I understand the reasoning for the normal smooth twist barrels but the why not in the X? The smooth twist x is just a hyped up polygonal barrel (manufactured differently but the bore shape is the same) so there shouldn't be a problem there.. Just go for the crown I would say

"Saltlake58"The Huben Video is what got me thinking about slugs. It's a fantastic new arena in air gunning and for hunting and possibly target, may figure heavily into our future. Whether it does or not, I want the ability to shoot slugs along with pellets
Why wouldn't slugs work in an FX Barrel? I really don't know. All I know is Nielsens specifically says, not for the FX Smooth Twist system. It's about 3/4 down the page in bright red letters, Sample Pack | .217 Caliber Air Gun Slug | Swaged
​At a BC of .073, it's something I want the capability to shoot without damaging anything. Oh well, more research. I really do want it all on this gun. Accuracy, adjustability, power, ability to shoot pellets or slugs, you know, the universal gun. I thought with the Crown, I'd get the best of all worlds, but I took too much time to put the money together and now, new things came up on the market.
If anyone knows why they wouldn't work, please elaborate!

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It's not that new, over here (The Netherlands) a couple of people started shooting .22LR bullet heads in their airguns about 5 years ago (you need a .22LR barrel for this, not a standard .22 airgun barrel). They're having great succes with these projectiles and run our 100 meter (110 yards for those who don't know ) competition at the top places. The bullets they use are RWS rimfire benchrest bullets (40 something grains) and 1 MOA of accuracy at 100 meters is perfectly capable if you do your part.

Back to Nielsson his ammo, these projectiles can't get the right spin from regular smooth twist barrels to remain stable at long ranges. The choke in these rifles is the part where the spin is applied and that only works up to a certain degree. The smooth twist X on the other hand have their rifling applied to the full length of the barrel which makes the spin independent of the speed and the hardness of the projectile. If you've got the right twist rate for your projectile with the smooth twist x barrels you'll be perfectly capable of shooting these accurately (if you know what you're doing of course). For long range you'll need the boat tail versions, the link you've added are hunting slugs which don't look very usable for real accurate shooting at a distance.

I think he puts the warning in red to prevent having bad reviews of his projectiles because the user might be using it in the way it shouldn't be used.


Regarding the Huben, the newest version (the MK3) has a Lothar-Walther rimfire barrel, this means that pellets will have acceptable accuracy (the bore of a rimfire is slightly bigger) but theoretically slugs can achieve very nice results. I say can because it hasn't been proven to me yet. I barely hear any story about the insane accuracy of a huben, most stories are that it is very fun to shoot and that they're fairly accurate.

And don't forget that power comes with inefficiency, the airtube/bottle will drain a lot faster when shooting more powerful projectiles

Does NSA have contact info posted on their site? Maybe someone can reach out to them for clarification on the warning?

Try this one, I just ordered some of there 34gr last night..
jk

https://nielsenspecialtyammo.com/

Here is an excerpt direct from the Wildcat MKII Compact spec sheet concerning the Twist X Barrel System.:

"It gives airgunners the ability to shoot a wider variety of slugs and pellets to suit their individual needs."

Thurmond

I've talked to Nick a few times actually just last night about these slugs for my personal guns. Nick has stated before that he cannot get a slug to shoot accurately out of the original Smooth Twist barrels. He's had a few FX and none would shoot them and other testers with no luck. The new Smooth Twist X barrels though do have good success. However being the twists were optimized for pellets until your able to order custom twist barrels for them more appropriate for bullets they won't shoot as good as pellets but close as Matt Dubber demonstrated. His warning about the smooth twist is only for the originals not the new X twist.

"Saltlake58"Thurmond 
Thanks for that info from the manual. I'll contact the folks at Neilsen and confirm what their concerns are. The statement on the web site is:
DO NOT BUY THESE OR ANY SLUG FOR A SMOOTH TWIST FX BARREL!
I suspect this might only refer to the original smooth twist barrel, but want to be absolutely sure before I drop $$ on a Crown. I've been saving for 2 years (first for an Impact, then switched to the Crown after it was introduced) and it'll be a long time before I can buy another gun!
Many thanks for the input.

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The line above that warning says:

At this time, we do not expect these to work in original smooth twist FX barrels but should be OK in the new X barrel by FX.

Just checked the website and on a few .217 slugs says more testing coming but we don't expect these to work out of original Smooth Twist barrels but should be ok in Smooth Twist X barrels

Just saw ^^^ it was stated before I posted so i say buy the Crown!!

"Saltlake58"OK, I completely missed the line above the big bold red statement.
I guess that goes under the category of "Read the F(as in Fine) manual.
Sounds like I'm back on track with the original decision. Couple more months and I should be able to order
Thank you!

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Good luck

Recently had the chance to try someones crown and it works beautiful!

I shoot slugs in all my AirForce guns (cast them myself mainly from Bobs Boat Tail Molds). Surprisingly the TalonP with a 12" LW barrel shoots them best in .25. They (52 gr HP) did work well out of an original Wildcat .25 when I test them in one.
I will be testing them in a Crown and a Wildcat MKII Compact as soon as I obtain them.

Thurmond

Matt Dauber got great results with smooth twist X barrels using Nielson's boolits. The video has been taken down

I had the exact same concern before I ordered my Crown so I sent Nick at NSA an email this was his reply. I hope some of the new barrel liners will accommodate slugs.

I have one person reporting he gets good accuracy with his FX Impact with smooth twist barrel (non X barrel) but normally I tell people not use slugs in the a smooth twist. If your gun has the new X barrel it should have a much better chance of shooting slugs, especially at short ranges. The factory barrel may or may not be ideal for slugs but one should available soon that can ordered. The factory barrel may shoot them just fine, just untested as of today. I am working with Utah Airguns for testing. I have sent them slugs to shoot in the new barrels and I am waiting on results. Justin over at Utah Airguns is doing the testing. These barrels are so new to market there has been little testing done so far. Hoping to hear from Justin soon. Nielsen Specialty Ammo