FX royale internals question

Forums PCP Airguns FX royale internals question

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Hi,

    Wonder if anyone can assist me…

    Had a 50bar/day leak on an Royale 400, so after watching every vid and reading all the forum threads I got a new oring kit and set about taking her apart – I had also tried a leak indicator spray and balloon over the barrel but got no signs from those.

    Found an oring (G3) on the inlet valve that was a bit mashed into the threads so changed that, and on the quick connector itself there looks to be what may have been an oring pretty crushed into it, but the parts diagram says that should be a delrin seal (G6) and my kit doesn’t contain that so not sure what to do there.

    I did use the pressure guage to drain the air and on taking this off to have a look did not see the plastic washer “D13” in there at all…?

    I took out the valve stem and spring but all looked fine.

    I did not take out the reg as I couldn’t (see below)

    I cleaned everything, applied silicone to all the orings I could see and then reassembled.

    Anyway on re-assebly air is now rushing out of the small hole in the body just behind/under the pressure guage… so the question(s) are:
    What is this hole and why might air be pouring out of there?

    On a side note with the reg: on Ernest Rowe’s videos  and other places I’ve seen that once you remove the inlet valve the brass valve seat should be visible, however on mine there is a washer that appears to be glued or v firmly wedged onto the top of it, plus another loose washer over it – I noticed that if you leave the loose one out then the inlet valve doesn’t tighten snugly in the position you want it – but again in one of Mr Rowe’s vids he says that is fine to be a bit loose as the pressure of air will lock it in place.  This is a relatively new gun, which I bought new,  but it has been back to supplier once for other problems which included fitting a new pressure guage.

    I would really appreciate any help on this.

    Thanks for reading.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Pics of what I see behind the inlet valve adn the loose washer that was in there.
    https://i.imgsafe.org/bd941314a0.jpg

     

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    This hole is the vent hole for your reg.

    Have you installed back the washer on the top of your reg?

    The leak may come from:
    – One of the 2 external Oring of the reg
    – One of the 2 internal Oring of the reg
    – the reg is not well back in place and consequently one of the outer Oring is too close or just below the vent hole. There is few room between vent hole and the external Oring once in place.

    Hope it helps

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks dreuf,

    I have not taken the reg out at all and it is definitely firmly in place, and yes the washers are as they were…

    Do you know why the washer is there? because it is preventing me getting the out and checking its orings.

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    The washer is not supposed to be glued or fixed by anyway (on my fx gladiator and boss it was not the case). Just gently force it to get it out and after you will be able to pull the reg out.
    This washer is used to set the reg in the right position when you tighten the filling part (it is a Belleville washer not a standard one).
     

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    jking
    Participant
    Member

    I may not be much help but I can tell you the hole that’s under the gauge is the vent hole for the regulator. If air is coming out of it I’d guess one of the O-rings on the regulator is leaking, could be either one, either the high pressure side or regulated pressure. Weird that it started leaking and you haven’t removed the regulator. To start with I’d say that is your biggest concern now, so if air is rushing out as you said that problem needs to be fixed first. Those are 2.40X11.6 O-rings.

    Mine does have D13, seems like it was a hard seal but once back together I’d re-soap that too.

    I’ve heard of that loose washer but mine doesn’t have it. I’m  thinking its a spacer but I could be dead wrong. If the valve stem and seat are leaking air should be detectable at the end of the barrel but some of that air could leak into the shroud and come out at the cone that slides onto the barrel so I wouldn’t assume all the leaking air to exit the end of the barrel/shroud.
    Are you sure you got the valve stem back in properly?

    That’s about all I have, maybe one of the more seasoned FX guys will chime in. Forum member Weatherby is a wealth of knowledge on these guns. Let me know if there’s anything else  I can help with.
    Jimmy

     

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Ok thanks again that’s great – the washer is very stuck but I will try and dislodge it.

    Can you think of any reason that me having dismantled other parts of tha gun could have caused the reg orings to suddenly go or is it just  a coincidence? 

    When you say it is not a standard washer, do you mean it is not likely to have been put in by FX during manufacture?

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks Jimmy, much appreciated,

    I have removed my shroud so I suppose the balloon trick should have worked.

    As for the valve stem being back in properly, I am pretty sure it all went in as it came out (is there anything particularly to watch out for there?) and if it weren’t in correctly could it also cause this leak? – that would make more sense in a way seeing as I have not touched the reg – but it does sound like a reg oring is the consensus.

    I  do have the external reg orings in the kit I bought so if I can get it out can replace those.

    I think the loose washer is a spacer because without it the inlet valve doesn’t tighten in the right alignment if that makes sense?  I wonder if the gunsmith that worked on it put those in and that one of them has just got wedged into the casing over the valve seat, and also when he replaced the pressure guage forgot to replace the plastic washer…

    Cheers,
    Asa

     

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    Surely FX puts it there do not worry about that.

    If air leaks trough vent hole and you did not touch the reg so it is a coincidence.

    Do not be too worry about this leak. Once the reg out you will have a better understanding of what is going wrong.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks dreuf – that’s good to know – I will work on getting that washer out.

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    sniperlabyo
    Participant
    Member

    The LP oring is on or vary near the vent hole the washer/shim is to postiton the reg oring away from the vent hole. I seen that washer in so many action.

    The balloon take to long to indicate a slow leak, I use a film of spit on the muzzle with bolt close–you can see it right away if any kind of leak on the valve metal seat or the delrine or the OD oring on the metal seat—that’s all the seals preventing air going in the barrel.

    there is 5 oring on the reg that can leak, it will leak out the vent hole or out the body fitting for the bottle.

    on the action it will leak out the stock screw stud, gauge, foster check valve and fitting, body plug for the VS and the small oring that seal the VS rod.

    good luck finding the leak

     

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    jamieinmd
    Participant
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    I would send it to either AOA or Alan Zasadny. Alan has built and resealed an HW100 for me. He charged a fair price and did excellent work.

    Jamie

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Sniper, thanks for the detailed info – from what you say I guess maybe the leak might have been coming from the reg anyway and maybe just got worse…?  I will hopefully be able to get that washer out, so far screwdriver is not getting enough purchase so plan to try some sort of pick hook tool when I can.

    Jamie, I would send it back to my supplier (UK FX distributors) but our gun laws make that a bit more complicated and time consuming than just putting it in the post, and more significanlty this is the second time it has had a problem in less than a year with not much over 2000 shots fired.  The first time was when it was brand new and loosening the stock bolt loosened the stock attachment blowing the oring and draining the bottle when it was loosened, the 2 bolts were stuck fast so it went straight back for that. Now with the leak problem I think I need to get to grips with its internals a bit more so that I can hopefully fix some of these issues myself without sending it away every time.

    Asa

     

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    jking
    Participant
    Member

    Asa-j, have you found that after you remove the bottle and the gauge show zero that the gun’s receiver still has internal pressure on it? Was wondering if that stored pressure might have moved your regulator and gil flurted (red neck term) the regulator when the bottle was taken off. I found that on my 400 even after I removed the bottle I still had to dry fire it 3-4 times to get all the pressure off. Then I found out about the stock bolt.,,
    jimmy

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    That is a very interesting point Jimmy…  it would explain why that worse leak suddenly started after I took the gun apart. 

    Unfortunately the washer wedged in the valve seat is in there good and tight – no way I’m getting it out so don’t see how I can get to the reg to move it back into position unless there’s a way round it.  Would bleeding the air out with the stock bolt make any difference at this point – or has that horse bolted?

    At this point I think I need to send it back to supplier.  :/

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    Please post a pic of what you call the washer. I am not sure we are talking about the same stuff.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    This is the washer wedged into the valve seat preventing me from getting to the reg – there was another washer loose on top of this one:

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    Do not stay in front of the reg plz until you are sure it is safe.

    First check that block is pressure free: use a small allen key to push on the valve stem through the hole in the block. If it does not move you need to dry fire the gun. If it is case you are lucky since the reg could have been ejected….

    If the valve stem move then pull the reg by the way of the brass part. It shoul come away. I see something black around the reg. Is it an Oring ?
    Normally the oring should be a bit backward and it could explain your troubles.

    Next time before removing the bottle make sure your pressure is below your regged pressure to have the reg opened.

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    sniperlabyo
    Participant
    Member

    That black ring is part of the bore,

    everytime I remove the reg I pull on the brass nipple, the only thing holding it in place are the two OD oring on the reg and they slide easily.

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    jking
    Participant
    Member

    Asa-j, it was late before I got on the forum but in the morning I’ll pull the bottle of mine and get a couple of pics and post them. You have me curious now.
    jimmy

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