those are cool. the one i bought for my royale does what its supposed to do but its easy for a pellet to misalign. plus its way overpriced for what it is. id buy a rowan version for sure.
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FX reveals the "Crown" and the Smooth Twist "X" barrel system!
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
I really like most everything they have done with this new gun and I also like the new barrel system. But why are these new guns still coming with dovetail scope rails instead of picatinny rails!?
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I've never owned or even shot an FX rifle. While I was initially very intrigued by the Smooth Twist concept, it always seemed to me that accelerating the pellet to near maximum velocity through the smooth portion of the barrel and then spooling up the rotation at the very end of the barrel would subject the pellet to a violent shearing effect where it first contacted the rifling. I envisioned specks of lead being sheared off and fouling subsequent shots. But then I saw demonstrations of the barrel's accuracy and thought that Fredrik Axelsson must have found some way to introduce the rotation in a gradual way so as to prevent the shearing of lead from the pellet. I also saw videos of recovered pellets from Smooth Twist barrels that seemed not to show the slightest bit of shearing. But now for the first time I've read of testing that proves that some pellets "skid" through the twist portion at the end of the barrel, which confirms my original concern about the Smooth Twist concept.
Fredrik's new Smooth Twist X is rifled from the breach to the muzzle in a more traditional fashion, almost abandoning the original Smooth Twist concept, in my view. The pellet rotation is introduced from the beginning of the pellet's acceleration from zero, therefore spooling up the rotation gradually as the velocity increases as it travels the length of the barrel, thus eliminating the shearing effect.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but, it seems to me that the only thing that remains novel about the Smooth Twist X (or more precisely, "Twist X") is that the rifling is pressed into the barrel from the outside and not machined from the inside.
I'm still very intrigued by the original Smooth Twist concept; that of accelerating the pellet in a perfectly smooth bore and only introducing the rotation at the end. But to eliminate the violence in doing so, one would have to introduce the rifling and the rotation gradually, which would seem to require a very intricate process.
If I live long enough, I intend for my next air rifle to be an FX. Fredrik Axelsson is turning the airgun world on it's head. And while not fond of "tactical looking black rifles", I've been smitten with the FX Impact from the moment I first read about it. Now, with the FX Crown, I'll be able to enjoy all the features of the FX Impact in a more traditional and appealing platform; that is, if I can afford it. And if not, then maybe the FX Crown will force prices of used FX rifles down to my economic level. Boy would I like to get my hands on an affordable used FX Royale 400 or an FX Impact while the rest of you younger guys experiment and work up all the viable combinations and potentials of the new FX Crown. I can't wait to see how this gun performs in reality.
I'm very optimistic about the Crown because, most certainly, Fredrik Axelsson has learned a lot from the many issues experienced with the Impact. I expect that the Crown will demonstrate few if any of those issues without introducing other new issues unique to the Crown. Maybe I'm missing something, but, I don't see much going wrong with barrel liners, especially at only $99 a pop! Heck, his magazines are nearly as expensive.
Working up optimal twist rates for various pellet designs and weights seems not only potentially revolutionary in the advancement of airgun accuracy, but potentially revolutionary in pellet manufacturing technology. Can you imagine what must be going through the minds of the management staff at JSB right now? Maybe JSB or one of their competitors might see potential in bullet production to take advantage of the opportunities presented by the new FX barrel system. One thing seems certain, the data set that will be produced from so many experimenters the world over will surely lead to even greater advancements in airgun technology.
We can all thank Fredrik Axelsson for kicking the airgun industry in the a$$. Everybody is going to benefit from this!
Fredrik's new Smooth Twist X is rifled from the breach to the muzzle in a more traditional fashion, almost abandoning the original Smooth Twist concept, in my view. The pellet rotation is introduced from the beginning of the pellet's acceleration from zero, therefore spooling up the rotation gradually as the velocity increases as it travels the length of the barrel, thus eliminating the shearing effect.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but, it seems to me that the only thing that remains novel about the Smooth Twist X (or more precisely, "Twist X") is that the rifling is pressed into the barrel from the outside and not machined from the inside.
I'm still very intrigued by the original Smooth Twist concept; that of accelerating the pellet in a perfectly smooth bore and only introducing the rotation at the end. But to eliminate the violence in doing so, one would have to introduce the rifling and the rotation gradually, which would seem to require a very intricate process.
If I live long enough, I intend for my next air rifle to be an FX. Fredrik Axelsson is turning the airgun world on it's head. And while not fond of "tactical looking black rifles", I've been smitten with the FX Impact from the moment I first read about it. Now, with the FX Crown, I'll be able to enjoy all the features of the FX Impact in a more traditional and appealing platform; that is, if I can afford it. And if not, then maybe the FX Crown will force prices of used FX rifles down to my economic level. Boy would I like to get my hands on an affordable used FX Royale 400 or an FX Impact while the rest of you younger guys experiment and work up all the viable combinations and potentials of the new FX Crown. I can't wait to see how this gun performs in reality.
I'm very optimistic about the Crown because, most certainly, Fredrik Axelsson has learned a lot from the many issues experienced with the Impact. I expect that the Crown will demonstrate few if any of those issues without introducing other new issues unique to the Crown. Maybe I'm missing something, but, I don't see much going wrong with barrel liners, especially at only $99 a pop! Heck, his magazines are nearly as expensive.
Working up optimal twist rates for various pellet designs and weights seems not only potentially revolutionary in the advancement of airgun accuracy, but potentially revolutionary in pellet manufacturing technology. Can you imagine what must be going through the minds of the management staff at JSB right now? Maybe JSB or one of their competitors might see potential in bullet production to take advantage of the opportunities presented by the new FX barrel system. One thing seems certain, the data set that will be produced from so many experimenters the world over will surely lead to even greater advancements in airgun technology.
We can all thank Fredrik Axelsson for kicking the airgun industry in the a$$. Everybody is going to benefit from this!
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Wow bee man you sure have this all thought out! I am amazed at the depth of your forward thinking! Its almost as if Fred Askelon is a genius!
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Great post BeemanR7!
We are certainly in the midst of an airgun evolution! In regard to x-barrel system and its evolution. As I understand fx didn't design the smooth twist barrels. They bought the system from its UK designer. The end portion of the barrel is machined down placed into a press which from the outside presses the twist into the barrel. A sleeve is then placed over the machined section.
Now to to me what fx did next with the technology they had was very clever and a continuation of the original concept. It is what enables them to make the sleeves with variable twist rate and choke from one machine!
Very clever and as far as I know totally unique.
They now have a system that is somewhat "future proof" in that they can make twist rates for new pellet designs. The barrels can also be retro fitted to some early guns!
I think from where fx was with the original smooth twist barrel they had to do something to push forward with new pellet development. They could have taken a step back to more traditional barrels and twist rates but they didn't. They took a big step forward with the x-barrel system.
Nothing novel about that.
We are certainly in the midst of an airgun evolution! In regard to x-barrel system and its evolution. As I understand fx didn't design the smooth twist barrels. They bought the system from its UK designer. The end portion of the barrel is machined down placed into a press which from the outside presses the twist into the barrel. A sleeve is then placed over the machined section.
Now to to me what fx did next with the technology they had was very clever and a continuation of the original concept. It is what enables them to make the sleeves with variable twist rate and choke from one machine!
Very clever and as far as I know totally unique.
They now have a system that is somewhat "future proof" in that they can make twist rates for new pellet designs. The barrels can also be retro fitted to some early guns!
I think from where fx was with the original smooth twist barrel they had to do something to push forward with new pellet development. They could have taken a step back to more traditional barrels and twist rates but they didn't. They took a big step forward with the x-barrel system.
Nothing novel about that.
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As I understand but might be wrong..
The twist rate in a conventional St barrel is a quite conventional 16 or 18 :1?
At best all pellets only take on about half that rate of twist dependant on weight and velocity.
This was only discover sometime after the barrels development.
The twist rate in a conventional St barrel is a quite conventional 16 or 18 :1?
At best all pellets only take on about half that rate of twist dependant on weight and velocity.
This was only discover sometime after the barrels development.
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Hey R7 - To your point about shearing... or smearing, I have a .22 Wildcat that I bought in November of 2016, and it had a smearing issue similar to that others have posted in the past on Airgun Nation, though I can't find the posts now. My 2nd PCP was a unregulated Royale .22 that was an awesome gun and super accurate, so I was suprised that my Wildcat started off accurate, then quickly went down hill. I found I had to clean the Wildcat often due to a build up of smears of lead that you could actually see when you shined a light into the barrel, and that came off on cleaning patches in chunks. Fortunately, AoA stood behind the gun and replaced the barrel. The gun now shoots the proverbial dime sized groups at 50 yrd. I guess what I'm saying is that some smoothe twist barrels do shear lead off the pellet. Some folks need to clean often, and some folks seen to never need to clean their ST barrels.
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Beeman - the SmoothTwist 'rifling' is not the same a 'square cut' (button pulled or hammered) rifling. By pressing in the rifling from the outside (using a very complicated machine) the resulting internal effects are 'rounded humps' and they graduate somewhat over the length IE: they start very shallow then develop or build-up depth towards the muzzle. As you can imagine it's not an easy or quick method but the lack of 'sharp edges' is the desired result.
As I understand it the Crown barrel system will have exactly the same rifling process used but applied to the entire length of the barrel.
As I understand it the Crown barrel system will have exactly the same rifling process used but applied to the entire length of the barrel.
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Hello Chuck,
My guess is that if someone accused Mr. FX of being a genius, he'd recoil from it. From what I've heard him say in interviews, he's just a laborer like the rest of us. By his own testament, he began by making airguns for himself simply because what he wanted wasn't available. If Fredrik Axelsson were a genius (root word, "Genie" or "Magi"), he wouldn't be a laborer producing with his own hands exceptional products for the benefit of his fellow man, he'd be making untold trillions by merely making empty promises like the rest of the "Genies" and "Magis".
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AirSupply,
Thanks for the flowers.
I was unaware of the origins of the Smooth Twist, only that FX is kicking tail with it. It's clever technology for sure. The proof is in the puddin'. The top competition marksmen are shooting ST barrels. It sure surprises me though, for reasons I've already stated. It makes far more sense to me to do what FX is doing now, rifling the barrel all the way from the breach to the muzzle. That way the pellet rotation spools up gradually as the pellet accelerates toward the muzzle. That should result in a more pristine pellet as it leaves the barrel and less lead left behind to foul subsequent shots. Maybe somebody can explain it to me, but, to me it's a mystery how ST produces so many winners. What seems clear to me now, though, is that FX abandoned the idea of adding the rotation at the end. So, it seems to me that FX has acknowledged that the real magic lies in the unique qualities of the rifling itself. What will really surprise me is if the original Smooth Twist barrels out-perform the new STX in competition!
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Hi LDM,
What you have described here is what, in my mind's eye, should be expected of the ST concept. That is unless of course ST takes into consideration the obvious and made careful provision to spool up the rotation gradually enough to avoid shearing off lead from the pellet. That seems very unlikely to me to successfully accomplish in just the last few inches of the barrel. The rifling would seem to have to begin from shallow and grow deeper, plus start the rotation slowly and increase gradually. The complexities and intricacies of such rifling, plus doing all that in the last few inches of the high speed end of the barrel without damaging the pellet always seemed unlikely to me. The experience that you had with your Wildcat is what I envisioned would happen. But, clearly, your experience is an exception, and not the rule. And surely, AoA simply swapped out your old ST barrel for a new one of better quality. Nothing was really changed.
I still can't help but think that the new STX will be superior to the original design. Like I said in a previous response, I will be dumbfounded if the original barrels out-perform the new STX barrels in competition. Rifling the entire length of the barrel makes far more sense to me, and it will surely impart a heck of a lot less stress on the pellet and the rifling.
I'm waiting with anxious expectation to discover what eventually results from the STX. I don't wish to be accused of adding to mere hype. There's far too much of that already. It will have to prove itself before I plunk down my limited Monopoly money. But I can't help but be optimistic about STX. I think when it's all said and done, we're going to get a lot more than just a more accurate air rifle barrel.
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Hello BRS,
I recently saw the videos that feature how the ST rifling appears. Till then it was a mystery to me what it looked like.
I have a hunch that the STX system will resolve issues that have previously either not been recognized, or kept low key.
I'm betting that many Smooth Twist shooters will seek to retrofit the new STX. Rifling the entire length of the barrel has to improve accuracy in my mind. Slamming a non-rotating high velocity pellet into a couple inches of rifling at the end of the barrel just doesn't make sense to me. All that being said, if someone offered me an FX Impact or an FX Royale 400 at a reasonable price, I'd buy it if I had the money. Especially one that could demonstrate superior accuracy. There are a lot of them out there, though it is a mystery to me how they can be that accurate. Who am I to argue with demonstrable success!
I'm just hoping the FX Crown will drive the price of used FX guns down to my price range. I applaud FX for offering the Crown at a more reasonable price than the Impact. I think many air guns are sinfully overpriced. Especially when you consider that an ever growing amount of their costly research and development and testing, not to mention their advertising, is done largely by us, the buyers!
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Bottom line is I think fx inadvertently discovered the popular Jsb pellets could remain stable with lower
twist rates and higher velocities than the "norm"
and be accurate (original smooth twist)
The problem is the twist rate is actually achieved
through getting the weight and velocity of the pellet
correct not the rifling in the barrel as all pellets skid through to a higher or lesser degree. When you change velocity you change twist rate.
Now pellet design has "already" progressed. With new shapes weights and high bc.
My view is it fx reacting to what is happening with pellet design not the other way. (Pellet designers getting excited about what fx is doing)
The new pellets are heavier and longer and need higher twist rates than conventional ST can't provide.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Hence x-barrel
twist rates and higher velocities than the "norm"
and be accurate (original smooth twist)
The problem is the twist rate is actually achieved
through getting the weight and velocity of the pellet
correct not the rifling in the barrel as all pellets skid through to a higher or lesser degree. When you change velocity you change twist rate.
Now pellet design has "already" progressed. With new shapes weights and high bc.
My view is it fx reacting to what is happening with pellet design not the other way. (Pellet designers getting excited about what fx is doing)
The new pellets are heavier and longer and need higher twist rates than conventional ST can't provide.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Hence x-barrel
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Yes GQ. Impact Same as your's in .22 and .25 and I love it.
Being in Oz also have the longer barrel at 600mm in .22.
Being in Oz also have the longer barrel at 600mm in .22.
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My .22 barrel is fantastic. I haven't yet got the .25 with the heavies to shoot like yours does!
I will be keen to put the new barrel system on my impact. I think it will make it easier to get a good result with the heavy pellets. Hope it's not to expensive!!
Matt said with his prototype x-barrel they drilled the transfer port a little bigger to up the velocity of the new .22 pellets. I wonder if this will be standard in the x- barrel accross the board.
I will be keen to put the new barrel system on my impact. I think it will make it easier to get a good result with the heavy pellets. Hope it's not to expensive!!
Matt said with his prototype x-barrel they drilled the transfer port a little bigger to up the velocity of the new .22 pellets. I wonder if this will be standard in the x- barrel accross the board.
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I wonder if they are planning a rifle with the Crown styling and bottle with fewer adjustment items and the standard barrel. Something priced between Streamline and this. They could dump some of their dated slow sellers.
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That is an excellent question Birdo...I think another question along those lines would be will all future FX rifles have the new barrel system, and also will all past models be able to retrofit the new barrels to use them also?
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