FX Impact and Crown question please set me straight

thank you DAIRY BOY I was wrong all this time I have 2 ones identical except for calibers and the smaller caliber ne also has a shorter barrel by 3 inches and it had like less fpe I kept trying to increase it and I couldn't so I ordered a longer barrel and still not same lol , hmm I should of asked this before I somehow thought I could generate same or close to same power with both not speed but power I guess it cant be done or atleast by me ,Why cant we just be happy with the way it is lol , I remember I am addicted to shooting heavy slugs .






 
Simple answer NO! Smaller caliber would have more FPE if you are using the Exact weight pellet.(Just a different caliber)
Larger caliber = more air volume to push it down the barrel of the same length and speed.

Larger caliber will more than likely exit the barrel slower than a smaller caliber using the same tune. 

Lets say you have the gun tuned with just enough power to get a .22 pellet to exit the 600mm barrel? 

That same gun without changing anything except the barrel caliber may not have enough power to get a larger caliber pellet to even exit the 600mm barrel in it's respective caliber.

It takes more air volume and air pressure to fire a larger caliber pellet at the same fps.

Now given the larger pellet is the same weight? For it to have the same FPS it would need to use more air.



So from this reasoning it is more likely that the smaller pellet will out perform the larger caliber (of the same weight) if none of the settings are changed.




 
so you are saying the drag slows it and makes it harder to exit barrel , ok . well would both go the same speed out at end of muzzle being same weight if both had same drag ? I do realize if we spoke of down range the thinner one would cut air better I was just wondering about pure energy at muzzle and if their was any mathematical circulations for design .
 
No I'm saying that volume of air needed is greater to propel the larger diameter pellet.

I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for? 

FPS x FPS x gr Devided by 540240 = FPE

The cross section of the pellet will play a role on how quickly it will slow down ove r distance. But the speed of the pellet and the weight is the basic factors to calculate energy.
Bigger cross section higher impact. Smaller cross section deeper penetration. 
Also expansion will play a role. (But that's another issue)
But also at a certain point the larger cross section spread out the force so it can lessen it effectiveness.
Like a marble and a tennis ball. Both have the same weight, and both moving at the same speed. which would you rather get hit with?
The tennis ball it's energy would be spread out over a great area so it would not have the same effect, as the marble.
Or like the light from a 100 watt bulb is hot. But that same amount of light focused into a pinpoint wild be dangerous! (Laser)

So is that's what you're trying to figure out? 

There are too many factors to give a definative answer. Depending on what is your goal?


 
Toku58 I am trying to understand the percentage of loss with exact setup but bore difference and loss or gain of power , between , 22 , 25 and 30 cal , so it can be caculated ,in FPE only all other factors exact , meaning tune and ammo same

I am trying to understand if their is a formula to calculating loss or gain from these 3 calibers , only thing I care about is FPE rite where chrono is near muzzle

OK like this

22 cal say 50 grains xxx fpe

25 cal 50 grains xxx fpe

30 cal 50 gr xxx fpe
 
So what is the FPS? If the FPS is the same it will have the same FPE. Now friction of the air will determine the rate of slow down of the pellet.
In a vacuum it would be the same. The FPS will determine the FPE.
Cross sectional diameter will affect impact force. Wider sectional the more spread out the impact force. Small cross section the more concentrated the force.
But they will have the same FPE.
 
Uhm toku, you're sorely mistaken if you believe a smaller caliber will make more power than a larger caliber with the same bullet weight, pressure, and barrel length...



.25 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.25^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 1018 fps / 58.46 FPE



.22 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.22^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 945 fps / 50.4 FPE




As you can see the larger caliber output is 13% more energy output, and incidentally the difference between the .22 and .25 caliber or the percent increase is equally 13%...



And its FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 450240 = FPE not FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 540240 = FPE

-Matt
 
Additionally, if I change just bullet weight on the same tune, unless in an extreme condition, the heavier pellet will nominally increase power output...



So for example, if I am shooting 25.4's @ 1018 fps for 58 FPE out of a .25 cal, going to 33.95 will reduce velocity to 933~ but will increase power output to 65 FPE~. The weight increase was 33%, where as the power increase will be 12%~, and the speed change is -9~%. 



That is because the heavier projectile is moving SLOWER down the barrel, which allows the pressure to be applied behind it for a longer DURATION. Pellet stroke duration is longer...therefore power increases.



This isn't a static principle or variable though, at a certain point increasing weight no longer increases FPE output, due to projectile weight overcoming the benefit of extra 'stroke duration'...The same can be thought of with REALLY light pellets. You can shoot a 7 gr projectile at over 1600 FPS with the right configuration but you'll only be making 40 FPE or so...
 
thnks ackuric this was data i was trying to compare with what I am trying to compare , so this should be ratio for ,22 to 25 cal and

I guess with 25 to 30 it is a bit more due to digger differences the from 22 to 25 , I have been going crazy with trying to figure out fpe differences now I think it can be a mathematical caculation ,

I have horrible writing skills and I thought my question would not be understood , any way I needed this for customizing slug weights and barrel lengths for slugs when I am making replacement barrels

thanks LOU
 
Uhm toku, you're sorely mistaken if you believe a smaller caliber will make more power than a larger caliber with the same bullet weight, pressure, and barrel length...



.25 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.25^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 1018 fps / 58.46 FPE



.22 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.22^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 945 fps / 50.4 FPE




As you can see the larger caliber output is 13% more energy output, and incidentally the difference between the .22 and .25 caliber or the percent increase is equally 13%...



And its FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 450240 = FPE not FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 540240 = FPE

-Matt

Plese explain how the .25 can obtain a higher velocity using the same PSI and Volume of air? That would be like saying a .50 cal being the same weight using the same pressure and air volume in the same lenght barrel can gain higher FPS. NOT Possible!
The larger caliber requires more volume of air. 
Again there are too many unknowns. 




If I'm shooting a .22 25.4 gr at 1000 FPS
And a .25 25.4 grain at 1000 FPS

My FPE Would be exactly the same! Do the math!

But I'm saying that it would require more air volume to get the .25 up to the same speed as the .22. simply because of volume it would be that the .22 would have a slight advantage.
 
Uhm toku, you're sorely mistaken if you believe a smaller caliber will make more power than a larger caliber with the same bullet weight, pressure, and barrel length...



.25 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.25^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 1018 fps / 58.46 FPE



.22 cal --- 19.5" barrel ---- 2000 psi --- Full bore porting ---- 25.4 gr

ROUNDDOWN(SQRT((ROUNDDOWN(((25.4*2)+ROUNDDOWN((0.22^2 * 3.14159/4) * 2000 * (19.5 / 12) / 2,2))/2)*450240)*0.9/25.4))

= 945 fps / 50.4 FPE




As you can see the larger caliber output is 13% more energy output, and incidentally the difference between the .22 and .25 caliber or the percent increase is equally 13%...



And its FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 450240 = FPE not FPS x FPS x gr Divided by 540240 = FPE

-Matt

Plese explain how the .25 can obtain a higher velocity using the same PSI and Volume of air? That would be like saying a .50 cal being the same weight using the same pressure and air volume in the same lenght barrel can gain higher FPS. NOT Possible!
The larger caliber requires more volume of air. 
Again there are too many unknowns. 




If I'm shooting a .22 25.4 gr at 1000 FPS
And a .25 25.4 grain at 1000 FPS

My FPE Would be exactly the same! Do the math!

But I'm saying that it would require more air volume to get the .25 up to the same speed as the .22. simply because of volume it would be that the .22 would have a slight advantage.


So why is it harder to drive a .22 (25.4gr very heavy pellet for caliber) at 1000 vs a .25 (25.4gr average to light pellet for caliber) at 1000? I can probably get close to 1000 with the kings in .25 but I can't shoot a monster in .22 at that speed with the same gun, same length of barrel, same reg pressure, same hammer spring its harder to drive a heavy pellet for the caliber than it is a light pellet for a step up in caliber. I think its a surface area of the back of the pellet vs weight calculation Matt can probably explain better. 

It's easier for a gun to do your example in .25.