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FX Hybrid Slugs Turn Into DumDum Ammo On Squirrel

I can’t believe he even walked after being hit by that thing.

mike

I was shocked as well!

Great video! I second what flintsack said, it’s shocking that squirrel even moved after that shot. The placement was good and it got hit with a 30 cal hybrid which is devastating!

The crazy thing is, this is the second squirrel I've taken with the Hybrid Slugs, and they both took off running, after receiving a solid heart/lung shot. They both got about five foot away before expiring. 

I'm going to switch over to the Hades and see how they work on the next squirrel. 
 
So I ran down to my property for lunch, to check my trail camera for groundhog activity, when I peeked out the window to see a squirrel grabbing my groundhog bait! By the time I grabbed the Maverick out of the truck, that bastards had hauled a half eaten Golden Delicious apple from the ground 30 feet up in a tree! He was so high, I had to sit on my butt in front of the window, and lean back just to get a shooting angle. Lucky for me, a large branch was a good backstop, so I ranged him to 30 yards, popped in the Hades mag, and let one rip.

When the Hades made impact, there was absolutely no doubt it was over, as his lifeless body and the remains of the Apple drifted from the tree motionless! The impact of the Hades was like an MLB pitcher had thrown a fast ball in the catchers mitt, with the resounding thud all too familiar.

So as I reach up to stop recording, I realize that in my haste, I never started! 😥

But I did get a cellphone shot of the aftermath, and it was like a scene from a movie!

20220322_133033.1647971651.jpg


Well, I found the one hitter squirrel quitter, and that's the Hades for the win! 


 
Always been a big Hades fanboi but I’m still surprised the Hades seems to out perform hybrid in this instance. Hope you get to try Hades again and see if it is indeed superior compared to the Hybrids. Very interesting results!!!

You know what I really need to do? I need to melt down my Clear Ballistics Gel block and do some .30 cal testing! I think I'll buy that mold next week! 😃

The way the Hades spread out is devastating without fragmentation (in my experience). The slugs mushroom well but fragmentation occurs more often than not from what I've seen. Squirrels are tough little buggers & the will to live even tougher! Had ground squirrels run 35 yds after a .30 in the vitals !

That's what I was thinking too. This concerns me, because the Hybrid Slugs were gonna be the round I use for coyote. I'll feel better about that after I get an opportunity to take out a groundhog with the Hybrid Slugs, as I think they just may ice pick on smaller game.
 
Now you and @crowski can wait and see who's squirrel will stay in the tree the longest.

I got a lotta catching up to do, his kill has been up in that tree since at least Halloween! 🎃

Plus, I have the Red Tail Hawks trained to stop by and pick up lunch, so I don't expect there to be much left tomorrow or the next day.
 
Good shooting and thanks for sharing.

I agree the squirrel should have been drt but sometimes they do not give up as easily. I used my 25 caliber P35 to take 17 squirrels this year with H&N FTTs - simple domed pellets. 10 were head/neck shots and 7 were body shots. None of the head/neck shots ran but 2 of the body shots did. They might have gone 15 feet, probably less. One was up high looking over an existing drey when I hit it in the front shoulder. Pellet ended up under the skin close to the other side back leg. Still ran down the tree before dropping dead. Another was only about 4 feet off the ground on top of a bird feeder. I hit it in the front of the chest and it again traveled the length of the body ending up under the hide at a back leg. Neither squirrel got a broken bone from the impact. The low squirrel dropped to the ground and ran at least 10 feet through my yard and just made it through the chain link fence were it expired. These were two of the three that the pellet did not exit. The other one went front shoulder to front shoulder breaking both. That one did not run. I think all 5 body shots where they did not run had broken bones and I know the other 4 had exit holes. I think those factors help. But some just seem to be hardier than others. The difference between a heart/lung shot with broken bones to one without is only fractions of an inch. I go for body shots when my rest is not as steady so placing the shot that precisely is not reasonable to expect. As long as I hit the vitals I figure I did my part and if they run a few feet, they run a few feet.

Not everybody agrees but I like exit holes. I don't think I've had one run with an exit hole. I know the 2 with the P35 didn't have one. I have not looked over my Prod data to be sure that was the case with it too. But it had a lot more that did not exit. Even though much lower in power, it did not have many runners, once I upped the power to 16-17 fpe. I didn't have any run off with the higher power.
 
I always used 22 poly mags on squirrels but couldn’t get anymore so switched to hades

I also used Polymags in my Bulldog with great success on Groundhogs, but the Polymag .30cal won't fit the Maverick's magazine. The Hades are more economical too. I have a back order in for 700 Hybrid slugs and 750 JSB Exacts, so I think I'll keep the Hybrids for larger critters like raccoon, groundhogs and coyote, but I am gonna cancel my JSB Exact order and switch over to Hades. The Exacts are more accurate though, but not by a huge amount.
 
The Hybrid's were developed as a pesting round for birds, and work well there in any caliber. I would be hesitant to use them on anything larger than a ground hog, and with headshots for the win. They probably would not hardly twitch after the concussion of a .30 Hybrid opening up in the dome! Because coyotes don't go underground or up in trees when shot, the Hybrid would put one down but they may run for a ways first. I'd be more inclined to get a heavier slug for them or use the proven Hades pellet. The way they tend to open, they cut their way through instead of just mushrooming into a bigger round like most slugs do. Momentum is the going to work in your favor there as well.
 
The way the Hades spread out is devastating without fragmentation (in my experience). The slugs mushroom well but fragmentation occurs more often than not from what I've seen. Squirrels are tough little buggers & the will to live even tougher! Had ground squirrels run 35 yds after a .30 in the vitals !




I’ve used Hades in 177, 22 and 25 caliber hades on squirrels and they all do very impressive job at dropping the tree rats. Even the humble 177 shot at 650FPS will drop them but they do run just a little with a vital shot. The 22 is a little bit better but the .25 Hades might now always DRT but they don’t seem to run more than a few steps then freeze from the pain and die very quickly. I alway shoot them at low speed or sub 700FPS so no expansion to speak of from recovered pellets but the effectiveness can not be argued. My take is the front of the pellet with those holes would grab bone or flesh and make the pellet tumble. I had a bad shot placement on squirrel with 25 hades and it just jumped once and froze then died with its intestines hanging out by 4-5 inches, very graphic and shocking damage that I don’t think is attributed to expansion. I don’t use anything but 177 in the yard anymore for safety reasons but the 177 hades just stumps them big fox squirrels with just 9 FPE!


out of all 3 calibers Hades I’ve tried the .22 expand the most by a large margin but holy cow the .25 Hades are wickedly effective on squirrels to a point of no challenge. I can only imagine what a 30 cal hades would do. 


 
Good shooting and thanks for sharing.

I agree the squirrel should have been drt but sometimes they do not give up as easily. I used my 25 caliber P35 to take 17 squirrels this year with H&N FTTs - simple domed pellets. 10 were head/neck shots and 7 were body shots. None of the head/neck shots ran but 2 of the body shots did. They might have gone 15 feet, probably less. One was up high looking over an existing drey when I hit it in the front shoulder. Pellet ended up under the skin close to the other side back leg. Still ran down the tree before dropping dead. Another was only about 4 feet off the ground on top of a bird feeder. I hit it in the front of the chest and it again traveled the length of the body ending up under the hide at a back leg. Neither squirrel got a broken bone from the impact. The low squirrel dropped to the ground and ran at least 10 feet through my yard and just made it through the chain link fence were it expired. These were two of the three that the pellet did not exit. The other one went front shoulder to front shoulder breaking both. That one did not run. I think all 5 body shots where they did not run had broken bones and I know the other 4 had exit holes. I think those factors help. But some just seem to be hardier than others. The difference between a heart/lung shot with broken bones to one without is only fractions of an inch. I go for body shots when my rest is not as steady so placing the shot that precisely is not reasonable to expect. As long as I hit the vitals I figure I did my part and if they run a few feet, they run a few feet.

Not everybody agrees but I like exit holes. I don't think I've had one run with an exit hole. I know the 2 with the P35 didn't have one. I have not looked over my Prod data to be sure that was the case with it too. But it had a lot more that did not exit. Even though much lower in power, it did not have many runners, once I upped the power to 16-17 fpe. I didn't have any run off with the higher power.

That is excellent information Jim, thanks so much for sharing.

There has been a lot of discussion about how effective a shot is if it passes through and if it stays in game 'dumping all of the energy'. I'm not a ballistics scientist by any means, but I am an engineer, which means I just can't help but try to find some correlation. I have found the exact same thing as you did with the broken bones theory when shooting groundhogs. I have dropped several with broadside shots right on the shoulder with my Benjamin Bulldog and Polymags, so I was trying to understand why that worked so well, when my 110gr NSA slugs zipped right through and the groundhog took off like a track star. I think when you put rounds into the shoulder, you cause an instant shock to the spinal column, as they are connected directly together in most all mammals. Additionally, since animals usually run forward, breaking both shoulders kinda knocks their wheels out from under them. Also, if you break a shoulder, you round's trajectory is right in the boiler room. With this, you take out the skeletal, nervous, respiratory and circulatory systems in one shot! The nice thing about that shot also, is if you miss half of those systems, you still will take out two of the systems, which still ensures a quick ethical kill.

When it comes to the point of energy dump and is it better to have a passthrough, it gets more complicated. Physics says you cannot destroy energy, only transfer it. If a round passes completely through game, then the energy from the round is not transferred to the game. I think having a round not passthrough the game is the best for energy transfer, but this only matters if the round has a significant amount of energy to transfer in the first place! If the round is at a lower energy level, I believe it is more beneficial for the round to completely pass through, as this gives more opportunities to destroy the skeletal, respiratory, nervous and circulatory systems.

So how much energy needs to be maintained in an animal to be effective? I don't know! So I will come up with a hypothesis, and we'll see if it holds water. 

The Small Quarry Airgun Energy Retention for Acute Disability (SQAERAD), pronounced scared😀 :

  1. An airgun shot needs to transfer energy in foot pounds, 7-21x the weight of the animal.
  2. Lighter quarry needs a higher energy multiplier than heavier game.
    • A two pound squirrel may need around 40 pounds of energy retention, or 21x.
    • A twenty pound raccoon may need only 160 pounds of energy retention, or 8x.
  3. Energy transfer at these levels require ammunition that greatly expands on impact to prevent full passthroughs.
  4. This energy transfer will cause damage to the four life supporting systems in game: Skeletal, Respiratory, Nervous and Circulatory, with a primary focus on the circulatory system.
  5. Shots are limited to bodyshots, as headshots completely destroy the brain, making energy transfer disability unnecessary.
  6. The quarry will be disabled in an immediate or near immediate time span (less than 5 seconds).
    [/LIST=1]

 
The Hybrid's were developed as a pesting round for birds, and work well there in any caliber. I would be hesitant to use them on anything larger than a ground hog, and with headshots for the win. They probably would not hardly twitch after the concussion of a .30 Hybrid opening up in the dome! Because coyotes don't go underground or up in trees when shot, the Hybrid would put one down but they may run for a ways first. I'd be more inclined to get a heavier slug for them or use the proven Hades pellet. The way they tend to open, they cut their way through instead of just mushrooming into a bigger round like most slugs do. Momentum is the going to work in your favor there as well.

I was doing the numbers for 100 yards with the .30cal Hades vs the Hybrids and the Hades just shed so much energy at 100 yards I don't know how effective they will be.



The first row is 50 yard results and the second row is 100 yard results. With a starting velocity of 930fps, the FX Hybrids keep over double the energy the Hades do at 100 yards and 50% more energy at 50 yards.

I got the delta of velocity numbers from Shooter1721's YouTube channel and used those to generate a Ballistic Coefficient for the Hades at .025, which is pretty bad, as JSB Exacts are .040, and the FX Hybrids are really good at .1, while the NSA 54.5gr .30cal slug has a BC of .12.

That keeps the Hades as an under 50 yard round for me, as it's shedding too much power to be useful any farther out.