So what about our back orders? I been on the wait list for a slug barrel from AoA for MONTHS! Now I have to go somewhere else, and go to the bottom of the list?
Upvote 0
FX Airguns - Notice
- Thread starter FX-USA
- Start date
If ebr is to continue imo, all manufacturers should have their own teams to represent their company to even out the playing field and not one sided. If it is just mostly fx there the odds of them winning is with them. New shooters coming into the sport only see who was the winning manufacturer. If I was a new shooter that is what I would think fx is the best airgun to buy being that they win in just about every category. The new shooter doesn’t Know that there are better guns than fx
so yes it is one sided. I just hope there will be more manufacturers participating to give fx a run for their money this also means a gun that you or me would buy from online retailers to shoot at ebr not cherry picked custom tuned hopped up guns now that would be fair. Shooter skills would come into play. Let the best man gun win. Upvote 0
jajaja the dark side! Where the judges are from?
is a possibility, but a long shot one... like I said before, we have big imagination
(Note: I truly do not believe this happend, but I always keep my mind open)
Upvote 0
I think that any competition that grows big enough for the attention to shift from the individual participants to the manufacturers or companies that sponsor said event is going to have some "controversy". It is only human nature for our likes and dislikes to influence our thinking and create bias. Most of us are not purely logical thinkers (I do have a sneaking suspicion that some of you are from the planet Vulcan). Hey, if we all liked the same thing we would get tired of talking about it pretty quick.
Buford, my daugher can beat up your dad. Lol
Buford, my daugher can beat up your dad. Lol
Upvote 0
I’m glad that someone other than fx won
About time. Fx cronies all there as they do every year lately promoting fx. I too was surprised and jumping for joy when he won. Odds are are stacked towards fx. All manufacturers should have there own team there ie edgun kalibergun taipan Vulcan bsa air arms Daystate Brocock etc say 10 shooters per manufacturer as an example to even out the playing field and not bias towards fx
What?
It has nothing to do with how many of which manufacturer is represented.
Claudio would have won no matter how many other guys were shooting Brocock.
The year Ted won, he would have done it even if he was the only one shooting FX.
And so on. The winner is not picked at random. You could have 95 out of a 100 guys shooting an Air Arms rifle next year......that doesn't give Air Arms a better chance at winning.
Upvote 0
It would be interesting to have a "Professional" league where the manufacturers sponsor teams, trick out the guns, and use the teams as design test beds for new products. As for current EBR, since it's all individuals that bought their own equipment (for the most part), seeing a Brocock Sniper take the Pro division is a good indication that FX doesn't have a corner on accuracy, there are other very good, highly accurate guns.
The fact that most individuals chose FX or Daystate is a testament to the accuracy and quality of the guns. Brocock seemed to be the distant third, even though it won overall. That fact alone shows that there's no guarantee just because lots of people choose one brand or anohter
The fact that most individuals chose FX or Daystate is a testament to the accuracy and quality of the guns. Brocock seemed to be the distant third, even though it won overall. That fact alone shows that there's no guarantee just because lots of people choose one brand or anohter
Upvote 0
Being a new FX owner, all that I can say is this: if and when I have component failures, as long as I can access replacement parts for my Impact X - I will be a proud FX owner.
Upvote 0
I’m glad that someone other than fx wonAbout time. Fx cronies all there as they do every year lately promoting fx. I too was surprised and jumping for joy when he won. Odds are are stacked towards fx. All manufacturers should have there own team there ie edgun kalibergun taipan Vulcan bsa air arms Daystate Brocock etc say 10 shooters per manufacturer as an example to even out the playing field and not bias towards fx
What?
It has nothing to do with how many of which manufacturer is represented.
Claudio would have won no matter how many other guys were shooting Brocock.
The year Ted won, he would have done it even if he was the only one shooting FX.
And so on. The winner is not picked at random. You could have 95 out of a 100 guys shooting an Air Arms rifle next year......that doesn't give Air Arms a better chance at winning.
What what?
Even out the playing field. They the team Shoot guns we get straight from the retailers
now wouldn’t that be a fair assetment on the quality accuracy of the guns
just a thought. Would you buy a gun after ebr based on the winner? Newbies look at these videos and buy based on what they seeUpvote 0
Brocock and shooter won it not just the shooter why do you think Brocock is promoting their gun after wbr and the shooter with his own signature gun? New shooters take notice and buy what wins
Upvote 0
@Bob_O, I understand where you are coming from, but the data suggest otherwise.
Claudio won with a custom gun. I don't recall exactly what he did to increase the the power, but he said it was Lothar Walther polygon barrel like used in Red Wolf. The communication around this has been very transparent (although not mentioned in the official results), and I think BroCock was brilliant in subsequently offering up a similar gun for sale.
The interesting question is if this custom gave him an advantage, or if Claudio was a better shooter than the competition that day, or as I will argue below that effects outside the shooters control has a significant effect.
The main attraction, extreme benchrest 100 yard, is preceded by qualifications at 75 yard, and the results are published here: http://www.extremebenchrest.com/2018-extreme-benchrest-results/ . Unfortunately, the data is published as jpgs so it is painful to analyze.
In qualifying round Claudio was 6th in relay 4 with a score of 228. The winner for relay 4 was Charles Kentner with a score of 239.
In the finals Claudio won with a score of 215 (2nd place was Justin Welsh with a score of 214). I don't see Charles Kentner listed in the finals but there is a Chad Kentner (not sure if that is the same person) but he got a 20th place with a score of 193.
Another way is to look at results from year to year. Claudio won this year, in 2017 it was Shane Kellar, in 2016 it was Ted Beir, 2015 it was Jon Reimers, in 2014 it was Tim McMurray, etc. It is hard to compare the scores as the competition has changed over the years.
My take away is that there are significant effects outside the shooters control (wind along with lane perhaps). As such chance plays a role, and number of competitors that each brand have in the match does matter, perhaps greatly, in determining which brand wins.
Consequently, I predict that Claudio is unlikely to win EBR 2019 (I have no idea if he plans to compete). I also predict that the winner of EBR 2019 will either be shooting Daystate or FX gun (assuming they remain the vast majority of the guns being used at the event). And perhaps more controversial, if the winner among a number of good shooters (i.e. skills matter) is up to chance, then I think it's better to think of EBR as a fun marketing event rather a competition.
Claudio won with a custom gun. I don't recall exactly what he did to increase the the power, but he said it was Lothar Walther polygon barrel like used in Red Wolf. The communication around this has been very transparent (although not mentioned in the official results), and I think BroCock was brilliant in subsequently offering up a similar gun for sale.
The interesting question is if this custom gave him an advantage, or if Claudio was a better shooter than the competition that day, or as I will argue below that effects outside the shooters control has a significant effect.
The main attraction, extreme benchrest 100 yard, is preceded by qualifications at 75 yard, and the results are published here: http://www.extremebenchrest.com/2018-extreme-benchrest-results/ . Unfortunately, the data is published as jpgs so it is painful to analyze.
In qualifying round Claudio was 6th in relay 4 with a score of 228. The winner for relay 4 was Charles Kentner with a score of 239.
In the finals Claudio won with a score of 215 (2nd place was Justin Welsh with a score of 214). I don't see Charles Kentner listed in the finals but there is a Chad Kentner (not sure if that is the same person) but he got a 20th place with a score of 193.
Another way is to look at results from year to year. Claudio won this year, in 2017 it was Shane Kellar, in 2016 it was Ted Beir, 2015 it was Jon Reimers, in 2014 it was Tim McMurray, etc. It is hard to compare the scores as the competition has changed over the years.
My take away is that there are significant effects outside the shooters control (wind along with lane perhaps). As such chance plays a role, and number of competitors that each brand have in the match does matter, perhaps greatly, in determining which brand wins.
Consequently, I predict that Claudio is unlikely to win EBR 2019 (I have no idea if he plans to compete). I also predict that the winner of EBR 2019 will either be shooting Daystate or FX gun (assuming they remain the vast majority of the guns being used at the event). And perhaps more controversial, if the winner among a number of good shooters (i.e. skills matter) is up to chance, then I think it's better to think of EBR as a fun marketing event rather a competition.
Upvote 0
I don't have a dog in this fight, but here's my take on it:
Although I agree that it is fair business-sense that FX is protecting it's interests by shoring up it's distribution in the U.S. from a competitive standpoint, I do not agree with the way that FX announced it. It seems to me that FX could have said something more like "We are happy to announce that our growing business has now given us the opportunity to handle our own distribution and service directly, but we would like to thank AoA for the years of sales and service to this point, and we wish them a successful future." ... and left it at that.
It seems to me that FX was more bitter and wanted to get that last jab in on AoA in their statement. To my senses, I don't find that very tasteful, especially for someone like me who has not dealt with either company directly, therefore I had no preconceived notion for either company. So reading FX's statement, and AoA's response, well, it doesn't give a very good first impression about service or public relations on FX's part.
Just my $0.02
Although I agree that it is fair business-sense that FX is protecting it's interests by shoring up it's distribution in the U.S. from a competitive standpoint, I do not agree with the way that FX announced it. It seems to me that FX could have said something more like "We are happy to announce that our growing business has now given us the opportunity to handle our own distribution and service directly, but we would like to thank AoA for the years of sales and service to this point, and we wish them a successful future." ... and left it at that.
It seems to me that FX was more bitter and wanted to get that last jab in on AoA in their statement. To my senses, I don't find that very tasteful, especially for someone like me who has not dealt with either company directly, therefore I had no preconceived notion for either company. So reading FX's statement, and AoA's response, well, it doesn't give a very good first impression about service or public relations on FX's part.
Just my $0.02
Upvote 0
Always sensible posts from you, Sir.
would be nice if all manufacturers represent their guns as in bought from the very store we buy or guns.
let’s see the store bought guns compete to see the accuracy of these guns not some hot rodded gun we can’t buyUpvote 0
Anyway, I am curious to see what the price money will be in 2019 on Rocky Mountain Airgun Challenge ... now will be UTAH vs ARIZONA (FX vs DAYSTATE/BROCOCK)
Like I mention in other posts, any MOA accurate airgun can win, after that is the skills of the shooters what metter and a bit of luck (or a lot). Is like Golf, all PGA players have very accurate swings (our moa guns), but what matter there is the player skills.
The thing with FX (I have not try Daystate / Brocock yet) is that for example, If travel to a competition without any gun, I know that I can take a stock FX Impact X airgun + 30 minutes on the range with a Chronny and a few allen wrenches, and I can leave it as my own back home, and participate in any BR competition and make donno, over 200.
Like I mention in other posts, any MOA accurate airgun can win, after that is the skills of the shooters what metter and a bit of luck (or a lot). Is like Golf, all PGA players have very accurate swings (our moa guns), but what matter there is the player skills.
The thing with FX (I have not try Daystate / Brocock yet) is that for example, If travel to a competition without any gun, I know that I can take a stock FX Impact X airgun + 30 minutes on the range with a Chronny and a few allen wrenches, and I can leave it as my own back home, and participate in any BR competition and make donno, over 200.
Upvote 0
Anyway, I am curious to see what the price money will be in 2019 on Rocky Mountain Airgun Challenge ... now will be UTAH vs ARIZONA (FX vs DAYSTATE/BROCOCK)
Like I mention in other posts, any MOA accurate airgun can win, after that is the skills of the shooters what metter and a bit of luck (or a lot). Is like Golf, all PGA players have very accurate swings (our moa guns), but what matter there is the player skills.
The thing with FX (I have not try Daystate / Brocock yet) is that for example, If travel to a competition without any gun, I know that I can take a stock FX Impact X airgun + 30 minutes on the range with a Chronny and a few allen wrenches, and I can leave it as my own back home, and participate in any BR competition and make donno, over 200.
It save to say that the guns used in that class have been hot rodded the best of everything. Fx Daystate teams competing against each other. Claudio I believe was on his own won with a Brocock next thing I know we see Claudio at the Daystate booth at the shot show. I believe he is now part of the Brocock/ Daystate team? I’m willing to bet sale of the bantam and it’s varients are selling like hot cakes
Upvote 0
G
Guest
Guest
Always sensible posts from you, Sir.
would be nice if all manufacturers represent their guns as in bought from the very store we buy or guns.
You are putting WAY to much emphasis on the gun. How about giving the shooter a little bit of credit. Do you think Ken Hicks set a new US record JUST because he was shooting a Red Wolf? Does that mean if I buy a Red Wolf I will start hitting X's with my bad eye? Would Cladio suddenly suck as a shooter if he were shooting a KRAL? I am willing to bet if Cladio had a Daisy and I had an Impact. Cladio would STILL out shoot me. I give credit to the shooter, not the gun.
Upvote 0