FWB 124: How Good Were Beeman "Supertunes"?

I have a left handed Deluxe that was originally super tuned. This one has the piston chromed and I can't tell if the spring was or not. I have a standard 124 that was not super tuned and there is a night and day difference between the two in shot cycle and smooth cocking. My lefty looks like it has been lubed with moly and a stickier grease maybe mainspring dampening compound. Beeman charged extra for different options. There was scope angle, select group, select stock, tune and super tune if I remember correctly.



Jim

I own two, early and late 80's, and I have had them supertuned at least twice, the last time was over 20 years ago now. I never could really tell the difference when they came back. They were always smooth. Once the information age showed up and the internet had pictures and videos of how to do it, I did that. I could never stomach putting them in a box and shipping them out, so risky, and now it's much worse.

I had my 124 Supertuned sometime in the 1980s. Upon its return I chrono graphed it - three fps variation over ten shots.

In their day it was the top of the line way to get a good smooth springer. Our methods and mfgr quality has improved significantly over the years. I was just learning about quality springers when Beeman started offering these super tunes. Couldnt wait to get my hands on one to tear it apart and see what they did. One of the biggest advantages Beeman had, was the availiability of numerous rifles to be able to pick and choose to find a really good one to start with. The fact that you could select a prefered quality rifle to start with made a big difference. Just imagine if we had hundreds of rifles to go thru and test for smoothness, accuracy, fit and feel ? Then with that exceptional rifle tuned to a high level of performance....we can only imagine!! Anyone that can get there hands on one of these select rifles willvhave the best of the best platforms availiable at the time of mfgr. They were costly then and costly now, but to get the best of the best...what is it worth??

I've owned five Beeman HW77s, two bought brand-new and three bought used. The brand-new "Supertuned" HW77 I bought from Beeman not only shot way below his published velocities, but slower than all four others. Yes, I understand tuning is not always done for higher velocities. Nevertheless I would answer your question with, " somewhere between not very good, and snake-oil good". 

In their day it was the top of the line way to get a good smooth springer. Our methods and mfgr quality has improved significantly over the years. I was just learning about quality springers when Beeman started offering these super tunes. Couldnt wait to get my hands on one to tear it apart and see what they did. One of the biggest advantages Beeman had, was the availiability of numerous rifles to be able to pick and choose to find a really good one to start with. The fact that you could select a prefered quality rifle to start with made a big difference. Just imagine if we had hundreds of rifles to go thru and test for smoothness, accuracy, fit and feel ? Then with that exceptional rifle tuned to a high level of performance....we can only imagine!! Anyone that can get there hands on one of these select rifles willvhave the best of the best platforms availiable at the time of mfgr. They were costly then and costly now, but to get the best of the best...what is it worth??

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I bought my 124 in a local sporting goods shop when their unsold inventory sale reduced the price to affordable. Now, nearly thirty years later, and having received no further work, it still shoots as well as it did upon its return from Beeman.

I've owned five Beeman HW77s, two bought brand-new and three bought used. The brand-new "Supertuned" HW77 I bought from Beeman not only shot way below his published velocities, but slower than all four others. Yes, I understand tuning is not always done for higher velocities. Nevertheless I would answer your question with, " somewhere between not very good, and snake-oil good".

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Based on that I'd say something was wrong with the rifle. Every Beeman airgun I've owned lived up to the rated velocity. And that without a super tune. 

I had an R10 that was supertuned. It was a .177 and was the nicest shooting break barrel I ever owned. I'd say they were as good as any rifle tuned by the better tuners you might find today.

I've owned five Beeman HW77s, two bought brand-new and three bought used. The brand-new "Supertuned" HW77 I bought from Beeman not only shot way below his published velocities, but slower than all four others. Yes, I understand tuning is not always done for higher velocities. Nevertheless I would answer your question with, " somewhere between not very good, and snake-oil good".

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Based on that I'd say something was wrong with the rifle. Every Beeman airgun I've owned lived up to the rated velocity. And that without a super tune.

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My experience is right in there with AirnGasMan. I never had a single Beeman labled rifle or pistol in the 80s and 90s that met his marketing specs. NONE... EVERY RWS I bought met or exceeded theirs. He disparaged pumpers and other brands such as RWS frequently . I always found those to be dependable, accurate , and well made, as well as meeting their advertised specs. I bought a LOT from Beeman(long running airgun addiction). That includes the Supertuned and Laser versions. I spent a LOT on tuning kits, etc to try to achieve his published specs.

Now that said, they were mostly wonderful rifles and pistols and I was just fixated on velocity... just like a lot of newbies are now. Beeman was just a great marketer.

I know that David Slade worked for him in the 90s. I'm not sure I had one that he tuned. Since knowing David and having other work from him, I would expect that if you happened to get one he worked on, you would be happy.

Interesting that I still have a couple of his tuning kits. Still have a few springers... R1, FWB124 and 300, BSA Superstar , and some cool Mendoza's waiting to be restored.

Fun stuff !

Bob

"He disparaged pumpers and other brands such as RWS frequently . I always found those to be dependable, accurate , and well made, as well as meeting their advertised specs. I bought a LOT from Beeman (long running airgun addiction)."

Bobby and my airgun experiences followed similar paths, took similar directions, and shared similar interests, over a similar period of airgun history (now over a half-century). In fact sometimes I think Bobby must be my long lost twin. He got all the brains and good looks, and I got... well, suffice to say I'm the EVIL twin!

I credit Dr. Beeman for all he did for airgunning in the U.S. He was a great marketeer, for sure. However, in my 40 years in retail that included training a lot of sales-people, every time I stressed emphasizing our company and our products while NEVER disparaging the competition or their products, I realized that approach was born of Beeman's less-than-subtle attacks on .22 caliber, multi-stroke pneumatics, Co2, and other airgun things then and still near and dear to my heart. 

I often use the term "snake-oil" for emphasis in relation to selling and/or products. Dr. Beeman was not averse to incorporating a little snake oil. Correction, sometimes a little more than a little snake oil. However he also peddled some mighty fine products. Nevertheless I hold a grudge over some very worthwhile things he didn't hesitate to disparage. 

In fact, and I never realized it until just now, but Beeman's disparagement of .22, Co2, and American airgun manufacturers had much to do with my early campaign to prove mid-century .22 Crosman Co2 rifles and pistols competitive in NRA Silhouette when .177 Beeman springers ruled the firing lines; to expose Dr. Beeman's snake oil! That I succeeded beyond all expectations probably proves only that hard-headedly OBTUSE RESOLVE can be a very powerful weapon.

After criticizing him in my first book, I knew I was in trouble when Dr. Beeman ordered one! However he displayed no small amount of grace and good humor in his blog review of The Manic Compressive.

R.I.P. Dr. Robert Beeman.

I've owned five Beeman HW77s, two bought brand-new and three bought used. The brand-new "Supertuned" HW77 I bought from Beeman not only shot way below his published velocities, but slower than all four others. Yes, I understand tuning is not always done for higher velocities. Nevertheless I would answer your question with, " somewhere between not very good, and snake-oil good".

Click to expand...

Based on that I'd say something was wrong with the rifle. Every Beeman airgun I've owned lived up to the rated velocity. And that without a super tune.

Click to expand...

My experience is right in there with AirnGasMan. I never had a single Beeman labled rifle or pistol in the 80s and 90s that met his marketing specs. NONE... EVERY RWS I bought met or exceeded theirs. He disparaged pumpers and other brands such as RWS frequently . I always found those to be dependable, accurate , and well made, as well as meeting their advertised specs. I bought a LOT from Beeman(long running airgun addiction). That includes the Supertuned and Laser versions. I spent a LOT on tuning kits, etc to try to achieve his published specs.

Now that said, they were mostly wonderful rifles and pistols and I was just fixated on velocity... just like a lot of newbies are now. Beeman was just a great marketer.

I know that David Slade worked for him in the 90s. I'm not sure I had one that he tuned. Since knowing David and having other work from him, I would expect that if you happened to get one he worked on, you would be happy.

Interesting that I still have a couple of his tuning kits. Still have a few springers... R1, FWB124 and 300, BSA Superstar , and some cool Mendoza's waiting to be restored.

Fun stuff !

Bob

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My first question is what elevation are you at in Arizona? Most velocity ratings for springers are based on near, or at, sea level. I'm at 85 ft and the Beeman R1, RX1, Crow Magnum III, that I owned all shot at rated velocities. Keep in mind that Beeman velocity ratings were based on light pellets. Generally, the Laser and Silver Bear pellet. In .177cal were talking about 6.5 and 7.5 gr respectively. The only Beeman rifle that did fall a little short was the R10 that I owned. They were rated at 1020 fps in .177cal and mine was around 970 fps which was less than the R1 (by 10 fps) that I owned. Another key aspect of rated velocities are these two words manufacturers use when mentioning velocity. "UP TO" 

I was at 1200 ft at the time. I had ALL the Beeman and RWS pellets and tested with Lasers and Hobbies many times. An RWS 52 I picked up was rated at 1100 and it would do that with 8.3s. I didn't shoot it all that much. Broke a couple of scopes and it would only shoot Supermags well of any pellet I was able to find at the time. My Rws 34 and 35 were fine. There was just a bit of salesmanship in Beemanland... that's the only point.

If it weren't for him, I would probably not have tried so many and got to spend so many years enjoying airguns... so thank you Robert Beeman.

Back to the op, if I had them to shoot now, I might be able answer better. Back then (most were stolen), I can't really recall a dramatic difference.

Bob

That elevation isn't going cause that much loss. Maybe 15-20 fps in most springers. All I can say is you must have gotten some lemons. You never said how far off your Beemans were from rated velocities. Again, the words "up to" mean it may be at rated velocity or it might be near the rating.

I get it. I just expected what was stated to be reality back then. It's been a journey for sure. Some may have been close. Most were not... at least not 10 to 15 fps.

My Beeman FWB 124D was tuned by someone and all I know it has a ARH Mongoose (I know by it's color) piston seal. Not sure about the mainspring although I'm pretty sure it's original or meets original specs. Mine exceeds the advertised rating of 830 fps. The Air Arms pellet really shoot well and produce the best energy and accuracy. I was curious so I filed down a Air Arms 7.87 gr to 7.33 gr just to see how it compared to the JSB of that same weight. I was surprised at the result. Not that I plan on converting all my Air Arms domed to flat head. Just curious! Anyway, my Beeman does meet the advertised velocity. And some !

Air Arms 7.87 gr @ 845 fps

JSB 7.33 gr @ 865 fps

Air Arms 7.3 gr @ 883 fps

I spent a number of years as a piano tuner/tech in the 1980's. I saw the same pattern in the piano industry. Each brand touted its technological superiority. Baldwin had accu-just hitch pins, synchro-tone strings, 41 ply pin-blocks. Yamaha had aluminum action rails. Kawai had composite action parts. Then they came out with electronic pianos, They make some really good ones. 

Sales people always push their product. It's up to the customer to do the hard investigative work. In the long run, the technology keeps improving, so today's tech wizardry will be eclipsed by the next generation. 

Now you can buy a cheap PCP that delivers higher power, better accuracy, and lighter weight, for less cost than a good springer. 

However, there's a difference. The new tech is 'easy' but it lacks character. You see it in electronic pianos, they just don't have than special something that you get with a real acoustic piano. And that's why people keep coming back to the springers. 

It's interesting the original question was how good were super tunes. Looks like we wandered far afield from that question.

I only ever had one done. It happened upon the occasion of my handing and unloaded rifle to a friend and not saying quickly enough don't dry fire that.

The super tune that I had done was very good.

There's an awful lot of bashing going on here. It troubles me when people talk about those who have passed. It is unseemly somehow. Easy prey I suppose.

All this chatter about meeting advertising claims is ridiculous. In my 50 or so years of shooting air guns it is quite normal for a vendor to fail to hit their advertising claims. As a matter of fact it is abnormal when one does meet them. That's my experience anyway. That says more about the industry (and perhaps the customer) than it does about any particular vendor or reseller.

The thread was indeed about Supertunes but specifically about the Feinwerkbau 124. Much of what discussed pertained to that rifle. Yes, traveling down the life of Robert Beeman was a little off topic.

I purchased my 124d from the old Air Rifle Headquarters,(Robert Law) sometime in early 1975. The piston seal went south sometime in the mid 80's so sent it in to Beeman for a supertune, and it came back very nice, I did not have any means of testing, it just seemed smoother, and would still punch a pellet through a 1" white pine board a few feet from the muzzle( high tech testing), I shot it not a lot, but some off and on, sniped and cleared the yard of gophers when we first moved into our new house, then raising a young son, lost a lot of interest. Now my grandson got interested in guns, apparently skipping a generation , so I pulled it out just before Thanksgiving of 2020 to test before they came over and another bad piston seal. Did some research and sent it off to David Slade, Told him to take his time as I prefered it not to be in the hands of shippers over a busy holiday season, my check to him got lost in the mail and took six weeks to get there, then he got Covid and said I think it was Fed Ex would not pick up while he was sick, so another delay. Finally got it back, at least I knew what was going on, It's as smooth as ever, still accurate and a pleasure to shoot. I did have a Beeman blue ribbon scope on it, and now at 76, find that I tend to chase the target around more, so took it off and put the Williams(Beeman) receiver sight back on along with an aftermarket front globe with interchangeable inserts and have really been having more fun, the stock is really cut more for iron sights than for a scope, and recently I put a Gehmann adjustable iris in the receiver sight.