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FT Newb Q: Why not more Thomas rifles in Hunter class?

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Here is my thought on this subject with my limited experience of 1 HFT match. 


Thomas is designed for shooting offhand or FT style with the hamster so it has nutty amount of adjustments. HFT matches allows bipod and stool so the you aren’t as contorted and therefore don’t really need the crazy amount of ergo adjustments. I’m actually working on setting up my Thomas to do sub 12 FT and my FX crown to be used for HFT.



Also cost and availability definitely could be the cause too. 
 
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Fun thread...

I just joined the Hunter class this year. Hunter class has grown the most since AAFTA introduced it. It was intended to be a class for new shooters and those getting too old to shoot the other classes comfortably. The later is my reason. I started hosting matches and competing in the WFTF PCP in 2007... switched to open class for a few years and then back to WFTF and now with a lot of experience, have joined the hunter class.

I totally agree with the 70% shooter and 30% equipment statement.... might even be 80% & 20% equipment in my opinion. We like the Kral Pro 500 for a very accurate and stable entry level gun for any class, but Hunter class especially.

But also, think of your equipment as an investment. Most quality equipment will hold most of it's value over time, some might even increase, if you buy right, used. I shoot and collect USFTs because, early on, I became friends with Larry Durham and Tim of MacOne, and LD became my friend and mentor for the sport.... and I think the USFT is the most stable and dependable air gun on the market when it was created by LD, and still is today. I still haven't seen a barrel block as strong as a USFT ( I think a solidly free floated barrel is a must) and barrel changing and indexing is easy. Accuracy only comes when all those things are possible, air pressure stability, dependability, and a really good barrel prepared correctly and indexed for it's best accuracy. I think the best barrels in the wind now are the slow twist poly. A Thomas uses those barrels and preps them really well... and.. it is a knock off of the USFT in a high pressure format. 

You can index the barrel in the Thomas too, because it uses the same style barrel block, and also has the USFT style swinging breach which hits the pellet with the air directly from behind, which is really important in my opinion. 

But, the higher the air pressure in the tank, the more air pressure changes shot to shot, putting more need for your regulator to preform well, and you need a regulator, which often are not dependable and go bad at the worst time during a big match. The tube style, low pressure, USFT is very stable shot to shot without a regulator so it's more dependable in my opinion. And, you can always find a fill when you need only 1,500 psi to fill your gun. Think how long your air tank will last if you can run it down to 1,450 psi before you have to fill it.

In the 80% part of the game... Having someone experienced coach you is more important than your equipment choice. If you have to learn along the way without a good coach, it will take a lot longer.to have a chance to make the winners circle. You'll get coached at every match too by the great folks in this game, but a mentor is priceless.

Reading the wind is going make or break your chances of the winners circle. After you get dependable at ranging and holding steady in a comfortable position, shoot on paper at 50 yards on windy days as much as possible in different locations. If you get into the Grand Prix, then you'll experience a lot of different wind, humidity, angles, and heat conditions especially if you compete out west. Test yourself in different venues as much as possible. You'll learn more, faster and have a lot of fun on the way.

Wayne

AirGun Oregon
 
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Great comments by all, including some National champions. I’ve only been shooting FT for 1 1/2 years, but have noticed that the Match high scores are more often than not going to the top Hunter Class shooter. The National Championship high score was Hunter Class, and both FT matches I’ve shot in the past year were Hunter high match score (AZ States 2021 and Sonoran Desert GP 2022). Not sure of the reasoning behind that, maybe a lot more f the better shooters are shifting to Hunter? Sometimes WFTF is the high match score but Open lately seems to be a distant 3rd, despite shooting from the most stable position and being able to range better (high power scope) and click elevation turrets. 
 
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Mike,

I've competed in all three classes and Hunter class for me is the Most stable of the three, even with my age at 72 now. A bipod is way more stable than my harness and jacket even with the thigh rest I used on my USFT. In that more stable position, one can bracket range find to double check your focus range finding, so the lower power scope is not too much of a disadvantage, and sometimes it helps one find the target sooner, and read the wind on the vegetation around the target with a larger field of view.

And also a lot of the competitors in Hunter are old experienced farts who can read the wind pretty well, and have sorted thru a lot of equipment to find what really works best for them.

I think the percentage of old Hunter shooters has really changed since the class was founded when most of the shooters in AAFTA were younger and in the other classes... learning the wind and trajectory and what mistakes not to make next time:) so maybe they come to Hunter class a little better prepared as well.



Wayne




 
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Thanks Wayne. Makes sense. The reason I mentioned stability is because when we started EFT using bucket and sticks, one of the top AAFTA open class shooters that shoots with bum bag and “girdle” said that he was much more stable in his open class position than in the Hunter class position. I guess it depends on the person, age, fitness, strength, etc. 
 
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I have to agree with Wayne about the USFT non regulator version as far as being 99.99% dependable and solid as a pcp can be. I bought my full sized version 18 years ago new from Tim. Story - Ironically the AZ modded reg in my Steyr LG100 failed, which was the gun I used at the time back then for FT, it happened the morning of the second day of LD's 2 day match that was 8 hours drive from my home which was (irony) the same match I picked my USFT from. The reg in that Steyr failed again later on as well, had it fixed again and sold the rifle. Always been leery of regs ever since then. So anyway the old USFT has been nearly faultless. But mine is the full sized version which got a bit heavy for offhand at my age, and thus began to hinder my scores in positional, and since the winners circle is often determined by how well one does in the positional lanes I went to a Thomas FT 15" barreled rifle for this year.

For offhand my Thomas is just about the correct, weight, length, and feel! In that position I shoot it as good or better than any other rifle I've been behind. Next most appreciated is the trigger feel! Impressive precision too. It is also a very "Soft shooting rifle", just very stable and planted in the firing cycle. Between the awesome trigger and the other attributes I think it will allow me to pick up more points per match compared to the old rifle, and those few extra points matter if one is in contention for highest score.

Oh, and I can quickly convert it into a pistol for PFT!

Crossing my fingers the reg will hold up in my Thomas which could be its only fault.

I'll likely take a stab at Hunter class with it this summer, maybe Open too, just goof around some and have fun trying the other divisions again.




 
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Thanks Wayne. Makes sense. The reason I mentioned stability is because when we started EFT using bucket and sticks, one of the top AAFTA open class shooters that shoots with bum bag and “girdle” said that he was much more stable in his open class position than in the Hunter class position. I guess it depends on the person, age, fitness, strength, etc.
Click to expand...

The most stable I've ever been in FT was back when attached bipods were allowed and down prone in Hunter division. I was more stable then than when I used my tripod in Freestyle/Unlimited.


 
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The most stable I've ever been in FT was back when attached bipods were allowed and down prone in Hunter division. I was more stable then than when I used my tripod in Freestyle/Unlimited.
Click to expand...

Steve, totally agree... For me, prone with an attached bipod is as sturdy as a concrete bench with bipod and rear rest... I can only guess why it was made illegal... ;)
 
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The most stable I've ever been in FT was back when attached bipods were allowed and down prone in Hunter division. I was more stable then than when I used my tripod in Freestyle/Unlimited.
Click to expand...

Steve, totally agree... For me, prone with an attached bipod is as sturdy as a concrete bench with bipod and rear rest... I can only guess why it was made illegal... ;)
Click to expand...

Yep, smile. Fun while it lasted.
 
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The most stable I've ever been in FT was back when attached bipods were allowed and down prone in Hunter division. I was more stable then than when I used my tripod in Freestyle/Unlimited.
Click to expand...

Steve, totally agree... For me, prone with an attached bipod is as sturdy as a concrete bench with bipod and rear rest... I can only guess why it was made illegal... ;)
Click to expand...

The winners of 2011 and 2012 AFFTA Hunter Division Nationals shot prone w/attached bipods.

By the 2013 AAFTA Nationals, the top four places shot prone w/attached bipods. There were 6 in the top 10. Some of the bucket sitters non-prone shooters took umbrage and there was some upset in the game for awhile.
 
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bucket sitters

Lets not use pejoratives here. Those who took umbrage may do so again for being accurately portrayed.
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Click to expand...

Did not consider it a pejorative. Corrected it just in case.
 
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So in my humble opinion......most of us that shoot field target have started out in Hunter class. We get into the sport as cheaply as we can afford. So it is a steady natural progression from there trying new airguns and scopes. As we put more years and experience into the sport this progression is a steady upward trend to want to try other rifles to see if it makes a difference and to find out what we like. So let's just call this the FIELD TARGET JOURNEY. It usually has many different paths we take...some we regret taking lol. Eventually we find out what we like or works best for us according to our budget or income. I guarantee you a few things...#1 it's a fun journey trying different equipment and #2 it's the SHOOTER not the equipment that is in his hand. In my case I shoot the same scores with my RAWs as I do my Thomas's. Can I justify the price of almost double the cost for a Thomas??? Certainly because they are custom rifles and will not leave Mike Niksch's shop until they are perfect in his eyes and he is a perfectionist. Whatever you decide to buy just have fun and enjoy the FT JOURNEY and the friends you will make along the way! I believe the Thomas's you see in Hunter FT shooters hands those shooters have been around awhile and in their journey ended up with a Thomas. 
 
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I don't truly have an opinion on the original thought of the author of this thread, other than having a Thomas.I shoot open class too. However I was interested in the opinions of the folks with the high cost, status symbol, need for an accurate rifle, etc comments. I wanted to tell why I bought my Thomas. (Used by the way)

I started filed target when I retired in 2015. I bought a new Daystate MK4 and Scope. That year my club held the 2015 Nationals now memorialized with the horrible rain and wind storm in Ennice NC !

My rifle went haywire with the electronics getting soaked. Along with 2 other fellows with electronic Daystate's experiencing the same. 

I wanted to compete in several GPs each year, so I sold the gun. as I did not need a fair weather rifle with the expense of the travel. We know Daystate cured that issue with their rifles.

So next I bought a Styer LG 110 used. It served me well for a year then started to give me fits with little things going wrong. Very temperamental. So Then I bought the used Thomas.

Since then I have placed in the top three at most of the GPs I attend. 1st At the Crosman All American, And the2020 Puerto Rican GP as wel as 2nd twice. 2nd at the Pyramid Cup, And so on. The reason is the Thomas??

Well sort of. Yes it is accurate to a fault, but we all know the nut behind the trigger accounts for a bit more then the rifle 1 What changed was not that expensive, stylish rifle. It was the fact that when on the line and I miss a shot, I know for sure it was me, not an issue with the rifle. I did not think "Was that the gun or me/"

Having a rifle that you fully trust is key for me to shoot at my best ! I concentrate on my shooting routine and not fret about the gun. That's most important to me. The fact that the Thomas has had zero issues for the past years I have owned it, is why, if you seriously want to compete, Get one.

Just get the rifle that you don't need to think about during a competition. The one you only need to clean and do general maintenance to. Not over hall or chase issues with.

Lets face it, the cost of entry, travel, lodging, etc to go to a grand prix is high, and especially now with the gas prices.. The Marauder, like my friend Philip Hepler used in 2019 to win the Nats fit the bill.

A Chinese QB converter to HP , like my brother in Puerto Rico made, has won GPS for years.

For me the question of using a Thomas, Daystate Red Wolf, RAW tm 1000, or any other high priced rifle does not matter. the consistent working rifle is the one to have in Hunter or any class... Just my HO
 
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