First Rifle for my son, suggestions wanted.

Forums Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Replicas First Rifle for my son, suggestions wanted.

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    Harmless
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    yep, its a "I need help buying a gun post"

    So heres the story, i think it's time to invest in a rifle for my son, Eli. All the air guns i currently own are pistols and pcp (the fas 6004 on order is the exception) And while Eli likes shooting them i want to set him up with something that's easier to bench rest and the consistency of shouldering.

    Here are the parameters:…
    -.177 caliber, pellets, no bbs
    -Single stroke action preferred, multi pump, or under lever action (gas or spring) are secondary choices
    – lighter weight and more compact
    -$300 is the budget, less is better, but if it is a gun that will grow with him then its better to invest in some quality (plus i won't mind shooting it ;) )

    Eli is 6 years old, strong enough that he can deal with cocking a gun, but the real struggle is the ergonomics of full sized rifles. I suppose if he is benching it then it is less so, but i like the idea of something that fits him a bit better to transition to off hand shooting. I would like to find a rifle that can grown with him over the years and is decent quality.

    I am most interested in learning more about the options out there for single stroke and multipump.  

    The Dasiy 753S seems a good rifle for the single stroke category, and the Seneca dragonfly multi pump also caught my eye.
    Any suggestions?

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    Anthony Jarvis
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    Start him off with the Umarex Gaunlet. Seems right around your price range and it’s better then starting off with a springer. IMO

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    intenseaty22
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    Don’t know if an HW30 (I believe it’s the same as a Beeman R7)  would be appropriate for your needs, but it will last him to adulthood. Can get in .177, very accurate, good ergos, easy to load breakbarrel, can find at decent prices, German quality. 

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    Calbarry
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    Look at an R7. It's light, compact, easy to cock and accurate. 

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    spysir
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    I like the buy one to last a life time idea also.

    But maybe a Daisy M853 , or a used ( older had an outstanding trigger) IZH60/61, again used an RWS92 another R7 clone was $100.00 new.

    You dont want Co2 but the QB78 is a well known standard and selling for $80-95 in box store.

    Do consider buying used, these days springers have low resale value as does the .177 cal.  tho a new R7 does fit in your budget, what's his LOP?

     

    John

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    mikebeggs
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    Walther Terrus 177 – easy to cock really accurate and 149 Dollars at AOA…

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    markfina
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    A forever gun for 6 year old thats going to be tough I think I would start him with a BB gun and when he turns 10 move to a Nice springer thats my 2 cents.

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    Brazos
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    HW30S (R7).  Admittedly he will need to grow into it but it is in your budget and a gun he can keep use the rest of his life and pass on to his kids.  For example my dad spent his early years in England as my grandad was a Lt Col in the Army Air Corp.  After the war he brought the family over.  My grandad bought my dad a BSA Cadet pellet rifle (break barrel similiar to the HW30S but not nearly as nice).  My dad grew up shooting that rifle and then he passed it to me and I grew up shooting that rifle and now my kid is shooting that rifle.  Kind of cool really.  The HW30S is that kind of rifle.

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    Stefanjan
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    Difficult decision.  I just introducted my granddaughter to shooting.  I have an old (1980s era) crosman 760.  She is a petite 10 yr old but she can get 3 pumps into it.  While probably not a "forever" gun something classic in those lines would likely give him a good base to build on.  Hope you are able to find him the perfect gun

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    Harmless
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    I personally lean to the pneumatic guns, there is something about it that appeals to me over springers. I really like the Daisy 753S, but a little voice is telling me that the dragonfly may be better (for a kid), having the magazine is a big draw, and I would assume the multipump allows for some level of versatility when it comes to different pellet weights? Not to mention being a few $ less. BUT the HW30S is definitely a quality gun, has the draw as a heritage gun like Brazos said, and the proven durability/simplicity of springers and that's the conflict I find myself in.

    John (Spysir), not sure what you mean by LOP, level of performance? Eli is in the beginning stages, he is comfortable with shooting centerfire (.22 mostly) and air guns, but needs the trigger time to refine his holds and getting good sight picture to achieve better accuracy. Most of his short comings lately are simply because the guns are too big for him and I need to set up a bench rest so he can focus on other things than just holding the gun up! That's the way it will be for now, whatever I get he will have to bench for a while, but I would like to get him something that as he grows he can continue to enjoy.

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    Arzrover
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    A friend bought a wood stocked Discovery and cut some slices off the butt so he could just add them back as his son grew. His son was about 6. Disco's are light and easy to operate  plus can be tuned down  if needed.  I have a peep sight mounted on mine. 

    Crosman makes some CO2 pistols that their add on stock fits, as well.

    Also,  I had a Daisy 851 ( I think it was) that was single stroke, light, and quite accurate to about 20 yards.  Not bad even with bb's. 

    LOP = length of pull

    Bob 

     

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    Harmless
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    thanks Bob! good point on the woods stock and cutting it down properly, that's up my alley of tinkering. I will have to pull out the center fire .22 and measure properly, but rough guess is in 9.5" LOP range.

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    Harmless
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    So this is where my head is at, the HW30S and the Dragonfly are for all purposes the same weight and length, both have wood stocks breaking down the pros and cons:

    Dragonfly Pros:

    • 9 round magazine
    • pneumatic = very little recoil
    • multi pump allows for variable power depending on situation
    • aesthetically I like it a little more
    • half the price of the HW30S

    Dragonfly Cons:

    • have to pump multiple times between each shot (the multi pump is a double edge sword).
    • trigger is not near as good as the HW30S (dragonfly is single stage non adjustable)
    • being a multi pump there are more seals and components to maintain
    • if hand loading it is tighter and more difficult

    HW30S Pros:

    • high quality build and trigger (two stage, adjustable)
    • cock one time between each shot, which likely means getting to your next shot faster and less effort into cocking over pumping.
    • springer simplicity and dependability
    • each shot is the same power, no variation simplifies shooting factors
    • break barrel is easier to load by hand

    HW30S Cons:

    • Springer recoil and vibration
    • must hand load each shot. With a pellet pen which can hold 20 pellets in .177 I imagine this would be almost faster than the pump time for the dragonfly
    • twice the cost of the dragonfly 
    • fixed power makes it less versatile than the multi pump (double edge again)

     

    i have considered the Crosman Raven, its the lightest and shortest, and only $75, but if I go break barrel I have the inclination to pay out for a higher end, I am shy of break barrels for accuracy issues, prefer under levers myself, but break barrels are far more common and easier to load.

      Whelp, its down to me making that final call, going to have to sit on this for a little and think it over.

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    Greenarrow
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    Daisy 853/753 or HW30S.  Nothing wrong with single shot.  It gives the shooter time to “think” about the shot.  It’s also a good time to help reinforce safe gun handling skills having to pick up the rifle, cock, load, reposition and shoot.  

     

    The trigger on the 853 is not great but there is a “pilkington trigger mod” that can be done to make it much better than stock.  The trigger still isn’t great after the mod but it makes it useable.  The triggers are the biggest drawback on these rifles.  I wouldn’t be overly concerned about the springer recoil on the 30 as a CON.  The HW30S is mild mannered and not as hold sensitive as higher powered springers.    The trigger on the 30 is excellent.  

     

    There may be a struggle with cocking/pumping either gun seeing Eli is only 6.  It shouldn’t take long to get the feel for either.  Accuracy is great on both rifles.  Neither is high powered and as Eli grows and if he shows a real interest in shooting, he will eventually want/need another rifle.  Both the 853 and the 30S will stand the test of time and are easy to service for a lifetime of shooting enjoyment.

    Scroll down the page for 753 and 853 sales.

    http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/

    HW30S 

    https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw30-s-9229.html

     

     

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    Jeffhalfrack
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    I second the 760 my son is now 12 he still loves it,,,,but he really loves my crossman 1322 with a stock,he kills pigeons near 30 yards with it ,,,,he is only 6 . I'm just sayin jeffw

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    Crutcherro1
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    You may want to look at this link for R7 / HW30

    http://www.davehoffman.org/home/beeman-r7-hw30s

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    Scrufhunter
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    markfina

    A forever gun for 6 year old thats going to be tough I think I would start him with a BB gun and when he turns 10 move to a Nice springer thats my 2 cents.

    I am with you… A red ryder, lil buck or the crosman cowboy. They hold like a million BB's, accurate to hit cans at 20 yards. My 35yr old friend still has his RedRyder from when he was 6ish.  

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    RyonM
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    I have a 853 in prestine condition I’ll sell u it for $300 

    i can send you pictures if you want 

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    HWWAA
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    Check on the used market for a Daisy 953, same as a 753 just no Walther barrel, but with a 5 shot clip. Also the sidelever IZH 60-61 spring rifles. Also check out the Diana 240, in the same power class as the HW30 just half price.

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    ironlion269
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    Being the local heretic, here's a wild suggestion: Gamo G-Force Tactical youth air rifle. In .177 caliber.  It's a spring action break barrel that comes with open peep sight in the AR15 style, sized for youth shooters, bottle-cap accurate at 25 yards with 4x scope and pop can accurate using open sights at same distance. Cocking effort in the mid teens, solid with lots of Picatinny rails for adding bells and whistles as he grows. My 16-year-old grandson loves his; constantly competes with me in plinking and 10-meter shooting. Had this gun out tonight at 25 yards with open sights and was hitting pop cans set end-on without sweat.

    Link to look over this little gem: 

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Gamo-6110016154-G-Force-Tactical-Precision/dp/B00U6OTUA6&ved=2ahUKEwik7Yrft6zcAhVCXq0KHb42DkYQFjALegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3UHCKy9zKFah0NVcrty66V

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