First focal plane vs “traditional “ reticle

I have the SWFA 3-15x42 FFP scope - a great scope but a "problem" I find with FFP scopes is that the reticle is tiny at the lowest or the lower magnification levels and is impossible with my eyes anyway to make out any reticle subtension levels so the advantages of an FFP scope are lost. The reticle becomes larger as the magnification increases and thats when a FFP scope comes into its own.

FFP on Schmidt Bender 5-25x56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3orH_lJF_xc

SFP on the same scope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2nMbHzEsg

I'm looking to get a March scope 3-24x42 and am seriously considering the SFP version for this reason.

Do you shoot field target matches?, if you do I assume you click not hold over-under?, March SFP all the way! Just wish I could afford one right now... probably be a Nightforce BR 12-42 SFP for my next scope? Big & heavy though but an Awesome scope!

I normally buy my scopes from Optics Planet. I call and ask for a 10-15% discount and they normally give it to you over the phone.

@umoP3piSdn, Hmmmm... Same Chinese factories? Same glass? Really? That's kinda strange, since the engraving on my Vortex Razor HD LH says "made in Japan", and the glass is HD glass. You of course are entitled to your opinion, so good on ya'... I actually can't compare, since I haven't owned or used an Argos BTR. But I do know it weighs almost twice what the Razor HD LH weighs, and that the glass is not HD glass. Plus like you said, its made in China, not Japan. And like @kingston73 said, where are you getting the BTR FFP for $150? Just looked on Amazon.com, and they are over $350.

In all reality, reaching out to only 100 yards or so, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Were I to do it again, I would buy the 4-16x44 Bushnell Engage 30mm tube scope, which can be had for about $250 through certain military/police/firefighter/first responder deals. Great reticle, super clear glass, about 20 ounces, good solid repeatable turrets. For my money, the best deal out there. They also have a 6-24x, 2.5-10x and 3-12x. I have the 2.5-10x44 on my .177 Brocock Bantam and love it...

Only the lowest priced line from vortex are chinese like the crosfire. The higher lines starting with the viper lines are much better scopes and beat any chinese scope easy. 



Back on topic. I dont like the tiny reticle of FFP scopes when using lower powers. I read in an earlier post that FFP makes it easier to use the ranging function of the reticle. Thats not true. The only difference between a FFP and a SFP scope when ranging is a SFP scope has to be on the magnification set by the factory for ranging and the FFP can be at any power. Its really not hard to remember to have your scope on the correct power if you are going to try and range with it. FFP is totally unnecessary once you start using quality scopes that can be dialed up and down to correct for the drop. 

I much rather have the full size reticle in my SFP scope and use the turret for drop corrections than to deal with the tiny reticle on a FFP scope at lower power just to be able to use the same holdover points at any power. Everyone has their own opinion and likes and this is just mine. Use what gives you the most confidence in making the shot and you will be fine.

True, but just as useful is the same hold for wind regardless of magnification.

Additionally, if playing on paper and I spot my 1 minute miss at 50, I know I missed by 1/2” (or 1/4” at 25), regardless of magnification. 

Vortex is a Philippine based company and as already stated, all but the lowest line scopes are made in Japan. You absolutely can't go wrong with Vortex. You can find one broken in the street and they will replace it for you. Seriously! I have 6. All Viper PST's, Gen 1 & 2, and all but one are FFP. I rarely ever have the magnification low enough to be an issue with the reticle size and when I do I just turn on the illumination and use it like a reflex/dot sight. Works great. I have a couple of SWFA SS scopes as well. A 10x fixed, awesome scope especially for the price and an HD 5-20x50. Also an awesome scope except for the illumination. I don't know how SWFA could so completely fail in the illumination dept but they did. Love the SWFA Mil-Quad reticle. 

Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 F1 MOAR

Checks all the boxes (except low price) for an airgun scope. Good FFP reticle, and focuses down to 10m. Though no info on how well it focus range finds for FT. Pricey, but I'd get that over the S&B or March.

Am I the only one that thinks its, well, "extravagant" to put a $4,000 scope on a $1,500 to $2,000 air rifle? Nothing against it, more power to ya'. But it just tickles that "sensible" bone, and makes me think of the law of decreasing returns...

Am I the only one that thinks its, well, "extravagant" to put a $4,000 scope on a $1,500 to $2,000 air rifle? Nothing against it, more power to ya'. But it just tickles that "sensible" bone, and makes me think of the law of decreasing returns...

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Agreed, but if you're looking for the Holy Grail of glass, size, weight and turrets - IMO, there's only one that fits the bill.. at about 2k

A March 3-24×52 w/ the thin FMA-2 reticle is about the best you could ask for on an airgun. It parallaxs down to 10 yards, it’s about 12” long and weighs in at about 24 ounces. And the optics are tier one.

Am I the only one that thinks its, well, "extravagant" to put a $4,000 scope on a $1,500 to $2,000 air rifle? Nothing against it, more power to ya'. But it just tickles that "sensible" bone, and makes me think of the law of decreasing returns...

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Agreed, but if you're looking for the Holy Grail of glass, size, weight and turrets - IMO, there's only one that fits the bill.. at about 2k

A March 3-24×52 w/ the thin FMA-2 reticle is about the best you could ask for on an airgun. It parallaxs down to 10 yards, it’s about 12” long and weighs in at about 24 ounces. And the optics are tier one.

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Per Centercut's concerns - first get a Thomas or a Steyr to mount the scope on. Then the scope won't seem so extravagant

It a near toss-up at this point. Hard to decide - the Nightforce MOAR 7-35x56 FFP or the March MAR1051, 5-40x56 FFP.

In truth, I'm not getting either. Maybe someday. My current scope budget is usually $100-$300. At this point in time, I have better uses for the extra $3000.

I have the March 5-40 on a 12lb 6.5 Creedmoor where it’s perect for spotting my own misses at 1300 yds. Don’t think I’d want it on my 7lb Regal. The 3-24 is a much nicer setup for that. 

I have the March 5-40 on a 12lb 6.5 Creedmoor where it’s perect for spotting my own misses at 1300 yds. Don’t think I’d want it on my 7lb Regal. The 3-24 is a much nicer setup for that.

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For hitting any target, I think 24x is plenty.

In Field Target, some use the 80x March scopes.

The 30x-80x scopes can also be used as spotting scopes and range finders, in competitions where such extras would not otherwise be allowed (Field Target). Outside of that, most people would probably use a separate spotting scope, and a laser range finder.

I picked up an Athlon ARES BTR 4.5-27X Mil FFP scope to mount on my 357 Flex last Nov. I also have a Hawke and Vortex scope on other guns. Once you go FFP, it is hard to go back to SFP. I already know what my next scope is going to be (the new Athlon ETR FFP) even before I know what gun it is going on. 

I read some arguments above that if you use dial the turrets to center the crosshairs for each shot, then your SFP performs like a FFP, since you be using the center crosshairs anyways. That is true till you do some night hunting. In my experience, when pesting/hunting at night, i find myself adjusting the magnification and parallax in the dark at various distances so as to get a good clear sight of the target and its surroundings. You would invariably lose track of the magnification, but retain some estimate of range. If you had a SFP scope, your reticle adjustments would be off, and in the dark, you would have no idea what the adjustment from magnification to mil-dots is supposed to be. But with FFP, regardless of what i did prior, and even in total darkness, i just turn the elevation knob back to its zero stop(if not already there) and regardless of what magnification i am at, the reticle/mil-dots hold true.

Maybe i am just a lousy shot, but i have had more misses that i care to admit with my SFP scope where i used the wrong holdover due to wrong magnification setting... With my Athlon FFP, i have yet to make a reticle/holdover error due to wrong magnification, and with its zero-stop feature, I can re-center everything in complete darkness and have complete confidence in my holdover regardless of what I did prior. Invaluable.

True, but just as useful is the same hold for wind regardless of magnification.

Additionally, if playing on paper and I spot my 1 minute miss at 50, I know I missed by 1/2” (or 1/4” at 25), regardless of magnification.

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Never been an issue for me. I dont generally use my scope at anything but the highest power unless its a scope thats not setup on a rifle for precision shooting. My vortex scopes subtensions are true at the scopes highest magnification. I only shoot with them on the highest magnification so windage hold off or judging isnt an issue with me. Like I said in my first response some people need or like the ffp but my preference is sfp.

I picked up an Athlon ARES BTR 4.5-27X Mil FFP scope to mount on my 357 Flex last Nov. I also have a Hawke and Vortex scope on other guns. Once you go FFP, it is hard to go back to SFP. I already know what my next scope is going to be (the new Athlon ETR FFP) even before I know what gun it is going on. 

I read some arguments above that if you use dial the turrets to center the crosshairs for each shot, then your SFP performs like a FFP, since you be using the center crosshairs anyways. That is true till you do some night hunting. In my experience, when pesting/hunting at night, i find myself adjusting the magnification and parallax in the dark at various distances so as to get a good clear sight of the target and its surroundings. You would invariably lose track of the magnification, but retain some estimate of range. If you had a SFP scope, your reticle adjustments would be off, and in the dark, you would have no idea what the adjustment from magnification to mil-dots is supposed to be. But with FFP, regardless of what i did prior, and even in total darkness, i just turn the elevation knob back to its zero stop(if not already there) and regardless of what magnification i am at, the reticle/mil-dots hold true.

Maybe i am just a lousy shot, but i have had more misses that i care to admit with my SFP scope where i used the wrong holdover due to wrong magnification setting... With my Athlon FFP, i have yet to make a reticle/holdover error due to wrong magnification, and with its zero-stop feature, I can re-center everything in complete darkness and have complete confidence in my holdover regardless of what I did prior. Invaluable.

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If I have a dope card that tells me what my drop is in moa at 5 yard intervals then it doesnt matter if I am shooting in the dark or in the daylight with a sfp scope. If the target is 35 yds away and the dope card says my drop is 1 moa it doesnt matter if its light or dark out its still 1 moa. So I will adjust it 4 clicks regardless of the lighting. I dont use hold over points most of the time. I usually use click adjustment so for me a ffp scope offers no advantage over a sfp scope even if its dark.

Other people might strictly use holdover points and if I did I can see where a ffp scope makes that a little easier if you shoot at variable power levels. Even when I do use hold over points my sfp is just as easy cause I will be at full power and my hold over points will be correct. I dont vary my scopes power often and when I do its for a special reason. I also know that if I half my scopes power then my drops are double so instead of 1 moa it would be 1/2 moa of hold over. So theres really no situation where I feel a ffp scope gives me an advantage. Again this is my experience and my opinion and I am not saying people are incorrect.

If you used odd scope powers frequently then ffp will be slightly easier. Out of curiosity do you use odd power levels frequently? By odd I mean if your scope uses 10x for the subtensions you use 4x or 6x instead of 5x or 13x instead of 15x or 20x. If you stick to 5x, 10x, 15x and 20x then its easy math to know what the change in hold over is. Again thats just my opinion and the way I do things if I need to deviate from my power level the scope uses for its subtensions for drop when I dont click it in. Use what works for you.

.... Out of curiosity do you use odd power levels frequently? By odd I mean if your scope uses 10x for the subtensions you use 4x or 6x instead of 5x or 13x instead of 15x or 20x ...



All the time.

Because it’s not really all about magnification, it’s about the overall composition/sight picture of the intended target. I often set myself up behind the scope and roll the dial till I see exactly what I want to see down range, framed the way I like it in the glass. Usually I have no idea what magnification is dialed in, I just like what I see. Maybe it’s dialed back a bit to help with mirage or perhaps zoomed in a tad under max to capture the prey's eyeball.

No matter with FFP, the reticle ALWAYS sub tends the same. 

+100% to DellaDog above.

I was going to reply to LDP's question, but your response is spot on. I just focus on getting the right composition and sighting context for the shot. I have no idea what the magnification is at, as long as it provides me a good composition for the shot, the reticle and holdovers all remain true for an FFP scope. This becomes exponentially more valuable in low light/night time situations.

+2 on that.

Much of this scope stuff comes down to personal preference and learning how to use the equipment. I've owned Nightforce scopes several of them but in my personal opinion they are over kill and the price is hard for me to justify. Now that being said if you are hunting long range and perhaps on an expensive hunt with limited opportunities to make that once in a life time shot they are certainly what you need. For me shooting at varmints in good light when a miss is not a catastrophe scopes costing several hundred dollars are more then good enough. The optics and mechanics on the lower cost stuff has improved considerable and while I wouldn't risk my life or reputation on a cheap chinese scope they do have their places. FFP or SFP? Again it's personal preference and experience. I prefer the SFP but typically do most of my shooting at one magnification and from experience I know how to use the scope. A range finder isn't a bad thing to have either. Wind and elevation will cause you trouble as well on those long shots (talking mostly center fire rife ) but air too.