Spot on. Discuss “false economy” with Tesla owner if one thinks he has the moral ground to tell us what to do with our bank account.
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False economy of buying cheap and over accessorizing for performance
- Thread starter Humdinger
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Spot on. Discuss “false economy” with Tesla owner if one thinks he has the moral ground to tell us what to do with our bank account.
Just buy a yong Heng and a gold filter. That's all you need. For less than $300. You got a compressor that will last 2-3 years of used. So idk wat you point is. Maybe there is one guy out there who buys a yong Heng and put $3000 worth of filters and coolings. But the majority of us don't need to spend thousands of dollars to get into pcp. I see you trying to make people buy a $2000-4000 compressor. But not many of us have that kind of money. Money don't grow on trees. If you can donate $2500 to my PayPal account sure I'll go buy one of them expensive compressor. A yong Heng with a gold filter will serve you will for years to come if you take care of it.
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There is no false economy, there is a very real economy, and in this hobby that economy mediumly favors the seller and nominally favors the buyer, in terms of ROI, unless the buyer has purchased a good product. Thankfully in this hobby there is a very distinct difference between want and need.
Resale value has no bearing in this discussion unless one believes wearable mechanical parts appreciate in value versus depreciate. Perhaps unused mechanical parts, becoming rare enough and with enough demand, might appreciate.
All in all, and with the upmost respect, the entire premise of this thread is silly. A hobby investment, such as this, is an investment in wasted time. However, one could argue that the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. If people enjoy tinkering and putting their compressor in fancy clothes more power to them.
In closing a steam locomotive makes for an amazing Rube Goldberg machine and those who continue to tinker provide help for those in similar circumstances and for those not in a similar circumstance a chance to live vicariously through their own innovative thoughts.
Resale value has no bearing in this discussion unless one believes wearable mechanical parts appreciate in value versus depreciate. Perhaps unused mechanical parts, becoming rare enough and with enough demand, might appreciate.
All in all, and with the upmost respect, the entire premise of this thread is silly. A hobby investment, such as this, is an investment in wasted time. However, one could argue that the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. If people enjoy tinkering and putting their compressor in fancy clothes more power to them.
In closing a steam locomotive makes for an amazing Rube Goldberg machine and those who continue to tinker provide help for those in similar circumstances and for those not in a similar circumstance a chance to live vicariously through their own innovative thoughts.
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"I've recently ordered an MCH6 that will arrive soon. Hypocritical, considering the above? Not at all. My Yong Heng is still working fine and if my budget didn't allow comfortable purchase of the "better" compressor then I would still be fine with the Yong Heng. Will I "worry less" with the better compressor? Don't know since I haven't been "worried" yet. But I will be much less likely to experience a failure, as you correctly note. Hopefully these won't be famous last words. And if the MCH6 did fail, I've still got the YH to fill with."
Wise choice. After you operate your MCH6 for awhile, you'll never go back.
My point of my original post is not to deride personal choices of budget limited buyers. But I disagree that it's a wiser option to buy multiple throw away compressors that the owner has to hope wil not break down each fill session I recommend the convenience,durability, dry air output, and resale value of a compressor built for the task.
Wise choice. After you operate your MCH6 for awhile, you'll never go back.
My point of my original post is not to deride personal choices of budget limited buyers. But I disagree that it's a wiser option to buy multiple throw away compressors that the owner has to hope wil not break down each fill session I recommend the convenience,durability, dry air output, and resale value of a compressor built for the task.
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I can actually see both points of view. This was my Rube Goldberg Tuxing. And it’s still working great for Nick @socaloldman
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/tuxing-double-cylinder-pcp-air-compressor-taking-the-plunge/
But after I moved from the burbs to the city, I needed a compressor that wasn’t so loud and that I didn’t need to work to maintain every couple of weeks. So I bought a used Daystate LC110. It worked great for about 17 run hours, and stopped working six months ago. I still haven’t fixed it because I have four SCBA tanks and San Diego Divers is right down the street.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/daystate-lc-110-fail/
Hopefully once I repair this it’ll work for me for years. The funny part is my old Rube Goldberg Tuxing dual cylinder is still chugging along filling Nicks air tanks whenever he wants to use it. Granted, he uses about 1/10 the air that I do, but still....
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/tuxing-double-cylinder-pcp-air-compressor-taking-the-plunge/
But after I moved from the burbs to the city, I needed a compressor that wasn’t so loud and that I didn’t need to work to maintain every couple of weeks. So I bought a used Daystate LC110. It worked great for about 17 run hours, and stopped working six months ago. I still haven’t fixed it because I have four SCBA tanks and San Diego Divers is right down the street.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/daystate-lc-110-fail/
Hopefully once I repair this it’ll work for me for years. The funny part is my old Rube Goldberg Tuxing dual cylinder is still chugging along filling Nicks air tanks whenever he wants to use it. Granted, he uses about 1/10 the air that I do, but still....
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Both ways of accomplishing the goal are valid. No right or wrong in this, no single way that is just "better" for everyone, just different ways of meeting goals within each person's comfort limits. Great that so many different options exist these days.
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Aloha all,
when I started down this rabbit hole with PCP's I would have to watch what I spend because I would have to answer to my wife on what the money was for. I hear all of the members point of views, I myself could not spend 2000.00 to 4000.00 dollars on a compressor in one lump sum so I had to go a more economical route. I eventually ended up with a shoebox f10 and a alpha filter, it serves me well. Would a dive compressor be better, maybe but for now the shoebox is great, almost 2 years with no hiccups. I fill 1 great white, 1 tiger, and 2 ninja 90 lite, yes the shoebox is not as fast as the other compressors but I have never has issues like what other members had with their compressors. On the plus side my shoebox does not take up a lot of room at my shop.
Like other's have mentioned about buy once, cry once. Spend the money to get a better built compressor, now that I have experience with the shoebox and saved money going this route, I can put my money towards other things.
Aloha, Keone
when I started down this rabbit hole with PCP's I would have to watch what I spend because I would have to answer to my wife on what the money was for. I hear all of the members point of views, I myself could not spend 2000.00 to 4000.00 dollars on a compressor in one lump sum so I had to go a more economical route. I eventually ended up with a shoebox f10 and a alpha filter, it serves me well. Would a dive compressor be better, maybe but for now the shoebox is great, almost 2 years with no hiccups. I fill 1 great white, 1 tiger, and 2 ninja 90 lite, yes the shoebox is not as fast as the other compressors but I have never has issues like what other members had with their compressors. On the plus side my shoebox does not take up a lot of room at my shop.
Like other's have mentioned about buy once, cry once. Spend the money to get a better built compressor, now that I have experience with the shoebox and saved money going this route, I can put my money towards other things.
Aloha, Keone
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I remember back in the mid 2000’s I was talking with a student in the class I was teaching, about what happens to the tools after a large size project. He worked for Frank M. Booth, a mid sized sheet metal shop located in Marysville, CA. They’re one of the oldest around. That shop, for its size, does multi multi million dollar projects, mainly all the large penitentiaries up and down CA. Name the prison, and FMB did the HVAC and process piping on it, guaranteed.
Anyway, jobs of that size require large manpower, which in turn require a lot of tools. So, I ask this kid, does FMB invest in the high dollar cordless makitas, the dual pack 18 volt impact ones? Cordless sawzall’s, double cuts, etc?
He says no way. All jobs have a certain $$ amount formulated into the bid for tools, and for drill motors they use the $60 high speed Makita corded drills, corded sawzalls, everything corded. They are not loyal to any brand, it’s what they can get the cheapest in bulk.
So, my next question, is what do you all do with the busted up and worn out tools at the end of a 5 year prison job project? That had 30 guys on it, and each guy equipped with one drill, a sawzall, and double cuts? Does FMB have a tool crib in the shop, where there’s usually an old timer running that department repairing tools, or replacing the cords?
He says no way. When the large trucks come back from cleaning out the project with tools, duct work, misc equipment, all the tools on that job go right in the dumpster. Some of them just need a new cord, but to pay someone to repair it would cost more than the tool. They’ve done their job, got the job done, and instead of high dollar tools all banged up getting reused, more $$ went into the company profits.
So, the point of all of this, the YH compressors, the mid priced Tuxings, Air Venturis, Lightning’s, All serve their purpose in getting someone in quickly to enjoy this sport, at a low investment. Wether they choose to continue this hobby and invest in better equipment, well, all that can happen later. Just like that Gamo mentioned earlier. Start low, see if you like it, and if you do, and can afford better, then do so. Meanwhile, since you are now able to enjoy the sport RIGHT NOW, maybe save up for a better compressor down the road. Bottom line, Where does one want to spend their money, at the immediate moment?
Heres my whole take on this- once a person has invested in a low budget Yong Heng and has gotten a taste of having his own air source, he’s always gonna want that. When the YH bites the dust, they are either going to re evaluate their finances to see if they can afford better, or just get another YH, and accept the fact that he’s ok with a throw away that’ll last him a year.
If a person invests in a Bauer or an Alkin thinking all his air worries are now over, well, I pity the fool(in a Mr T voice), as we all know in time these will fail, also. The key is immediate parts availability, and this is where the high dollar compressors shine.
Anyway, jobs of that size require large manpower, which in turn require a lot of tools. So, I ask this kid, does FMB invest in the high dollar cordless makitas, the dual pack 18 volt impact ones? Cordless sawzall’s, double cuts, etc?
He says no way. All jobs have a certain $$ amount formulated into the bid for tools, and for drill motors they use the $60 high speed Makita corded drills, corded sawzalls, everything corded. They are not loyal to any brand, it’s what they can get the cheapest in bulk.
So, my next question, is what do you all do with the busted up and worn out tools at the end of a 5 year prison job project? That had 30 guys on it, and each guy equipped with one drill, a sawzall, and double cuts? Does FMB have a tool crib in the shop, where there’s usually an old timer running that department repairing tools, or replacing the cords?
He says no way. When the large trucks come back from cleaning out the project with tools, duct work, misc equipment, all the tools on that job go right in the dumpster. Some of them just need a new cord, but to pay someone to repair it would cost more than the tool. They’ve done their job, got the job done, and instead of high dollar tools all banged up getting reused, more $$ went into the company profits.
So, the point of all of this, the YH compressors, the mid priced Tuxings, Air Venturis, Lightning’s, All serve their purpose in getting someone in quickly to enjoy this sport, at a low investment. Wether they choose to continue this hobby and invest in better equipment, well, all that can happen later. Just like that Gamo mentioned earlier. Start low, see if you like it, and if you do, and can afford better, then do so. Meanwhile, since you are now able to enjoy the sport RIGHT NOW, maybe save up for a better compressor down the road. Bottom line, Where does one want to spend their money, at the immediate moment?
Heres my whole take on this- once a person has invested in a low budget Yong Heng and has gotten a taste of having his own air source, he’s always gonna want that. When the YH bites the dust, they are either going to re evaluate their finances to see if they can afford better, or just get another YH, and accept the fact that he’s ok with a throw away that’ll last him a year.
If a person invests in a Bauer or an Alkin thinking all his air worries are now over, well, I pity the fool(in a Mr T voice), as we all know in time these will fail, also. The key is immediate parts availability, and this is where the high dollar compressors shine.
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I am somewhat in the “accessorizing” camp. I use an Altaros Booster unit. Bought a 15 Gal Dewalt compressor (That I can use as my primary shop compressor) Serves multiple purposes. Have added a pre-booster water separator, relatively inexpensive. Also use a post booster moisture filter.
My reasoning is that I can replace individual components easily and cheaply without having to send out for repairs a pretty bulky, heavy unit. I would not be able to service a unit like this on my own. Cost wise, I may have around $1K into it. So, cheaper than top end, but more reliable than $1K end (think Air Venturi)
The added plumbing just gives me a bit of peace of mind that I’m not getting moisture in my gear.
If I had a reliable service shop around the corner, I would definitely buy a Nardi.
My reasoning is that I can replace individual components easily and cheaply without having to send out for repairs a pretty bulky, heavy unit. I would not be able to service a unit like this on my own. Cost wise, I may have around $1K into it. So, cheaper than top end, but more reliable than $1K end (think Air Venturi)
The added plumbing just gives me a bit of peace of mind that I’m not getting moisture in my gear.
If I had a reliable service shop around the corner, I would definitely buy a Nardi.
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I was an commercial HVAC estimator in Washington D.C. in the 1980s. Never once did I calculate the cost of tools into a bid unless it was something which we didn't own and we had to rent it. Labor, material, rental costs, permits, subcontracts etc., but tools were a normal function of the business and a part of overhead. I can't imagine any contractor buying new tools for every single job and then throwing them all away. All the tools we owned were top quality, Milwaukee, Hilti, Ridgid, Porter Cable, etc. Maybe times have changed, but mechanical contractors worked on very slim margins.
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If I'm not mistaken -- i.e. he has not moved -- Nardi's stateside representative ("Enzo") is located in Atlanta. I visited his warehouse full of various size Nardi compressors 2 years ago..
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@ Hawkeye- yes, tools are a big investment. What’s a cordless 18 or 20 volt makita impact gun cost these days? Cordless sawzalls? And those Dewalt cordless double cuts are very expensive. A small shop, yes, I can see carrying on tools from job to job, but man, as an apprentice, boy do I remember getting an a$$ chewing if I dropped my drill off of a ladder and it got all smashed up, cause that’s coming out of the profit somewhere. Same with cords getting ripped in half if you tied it onto your scissor lift and raised up while your tire was on top of the cord. Those commercial cords weren’t cheap. Again, small shop setting.
These larger shops that do multi million dollar, 5 year projects, and are usually swarmed with 30 or more crew members, some of these shops bid the tools as part of the job estimate, and yes, the foremen still had to police the abuse or theft of the tools, but in the end, these tools weren’t cost effective to repair. I’m talking mainly corded hand power tools like mentioned above. Not talking about pipe threading machines, welders, generators, etc. So, then, these corded personal tools were of the cheaper kind. Throw always, if you will.
yes, FMB would toss them, and that apprentice that informed me of that along with other apprentices, would go hoarding they the trash looking for ones that were indeed salvageable, to keep for themselves.
Now, to tie this all into this pcp hobby: contractor wanting profits and dollars in pocket- the Yong Heng buyer. Compressors expected to work, but known as short lived- the throw away tools. Would rather use the money elsewhere towards family or another high end gun.
Alkin and Bauer compressors- those went to the guys fed up of dealing with throw always and losing their air supply, and saved up for one eventually, or the one that believes his quality of tools is just an extension to his success.
These larger shops that do multi million dollar, 5 year projects, and are usually swarmed with 30 or more crew members, some of these shops bid the tools as part of the job estimate, and yes, the foremen still had to police the abuse or theft of the tools, but in the end, these tools weren’t cost effective to repair. I’m talking mainly corded hand power tools like mentioned above. Not talking about pipe threading machines, welders, generators, etc. So, then, these corded personal tools were of the cheaper kind. Throw always, if you will.
yes, FMB would toss them, and that apprentice that informed me of that along with other apprentices, would go hoarding they the trash looking for ones that were indeed salvageable, to keep for themselves.
Now, to tie this all into this pcp hobby: contractor wanting profits and dollars in pocket- the Yong Heng buyer. Compressors expected to work, but known as short lived- the throw away tools. Would rather use the money elsewhere towards family or another high end gun.
Alkin and Bauer compressors- those went to the guys fed up of dealing with throw always and losing their air supply, and saved up for one eventually, or the one that believes his quality of tools is just an extension to his success.
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I don’t think buying a YH instead of a 4k compressor is a budget constraints for some of us here. I think there are financial priorities that gets more future value for their extra 3.5k that prevents them from buying a 4k compressor. Between those who are into the business of pcp or scuba tank filling and to traders of goods, they have different priorities. To each his own. Let us not generalize YH users as having “budgetary constraints.”
The same is true with contractors that don’t throw their tools after every project.
It all boils down to priorities in pursuit of their principal objectives in life.
The same is true with contractors that don’t throw their tools after every project.
It all boils down to priorities in pursuit of their principal objectives in life.
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More than one way to skin an all relative cat, or something like that. Good times when people have widely varying choices in how they enjoy the hobby.
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Just curious & to extend the thread for @bigragu ‘s benefit
Which model do you have? Electric or Gas?Upvote 0
Just curious & to extend the thread for @bigragu ‘s benefit
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My compressor is the electric model pictured in the following link:
https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Nardi_USA_Atlantic_P_Air_Compressor_Electric_4500_PSI_300_Bar/5218
However, the price has increased by several hundred $$$.
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my 2-3 year old yong heng has only just had to change the hp piston rings.
Been filling my scba all this time. It works for what it was designed for 20-30min runs.
a whole piston assembly with rings to just do a swap out is $25
I would highly recommend a YH with coalescing filter and cotton filter for under $500 vs $2500.
Its a fairly simple device in terms of parts that can go bad, piston rings, reed valve.
Only if the motor goes will it be a high cost to repair and there have not been many reports of motors dying.
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Been filling my scba all this time. It works for what it was designed for 20-30min runs.
a whole piston assembly with rings to just do a swap out is $25
I would highly recommend a YH with coalescing filter and cotton filter for under $500 vs $2500.
Its a fairly simple device in terms of parts that can go bad, piston rings, reed valve.
Only if the motor goes will it be a high cost to repair and there have not been many reports of motors dying.
.02
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