Falke

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AirSupply

AirSupply

Member
Jan 12, 2017
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Victoria, Australia
If you’d have said to me 5 years ago you’ll grow to love springers I’d have laughed. I was 100% pcp’s 

So happy I’ve seen the light. Been tweaking this old beauty. Falke 80 Serial no 64

Top shots were a different pellet. Changed to the superdomes and managed 6 or 7 in that group at 20m.

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There is always discussion about who was first with this underlever design as it’s almost identical to the bsa airsporter.
As I understand BSA patent the design some time before ww2 but the war meant they couldn’t manufacture the Airsporter until 1948. 
During this time the patent expired and copies started appearing. 
Although the Falke 80/90 are undoubtedly a copy of the basic design it is considerably “better” built. 
no pressings beautifully made by German gunsmiths. 
 
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Hi Specie, thanks 😊 the numbers are a bit confusing. There are definitely duplicates and a few triplicate numbers. 
There’s also a few odd high numbers without any guns in between (that have come forward at least) 

They definitely used the numbers during the making of the parts as you said to make sure they stayed together and didn’t get mixed up. All the taps required individual hand lapping so parts where defo not interchangeable. As you can see mine has the number 64 stamped in 3 separate places. 



 
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All the sources on the internet agree that your numbers are serial numbers but isn't it curious that the numbers are stamped in hard to find spots, and are not stamped very carefully as compared the same production period Weihrauch or FWB airguns? FWIW, the caliber, rifling, and "Made in Germany" stamping are very well executed on the Falke barrel?

As you mention, why are there so few Falke 80/90 guns above a serial number hundred, and why so many duplicates and triplicates? Also, if your gun is a early 64 of maybe 600 total, why is the slotted dovetail, presumably an improvement and early attempt at a "scope stop" already mounted?

Maybe Falke just didn't use typical serial numbers like the others german airgun manufacturers? I have never seen a Falke 50, 60 or 70 to know if they have serial numbers but my Falke 40, a youngster's rifle does not.
 
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I have a theory. The 80/90 was an order for a finite number of guns. Falke where first to start production and had the jump on other manufacturers. They wanted to take advantage of that. They had a desperate work force willing to work for very little. 


So they get the green light to start production. They are numbering and marking off the completed guns but occasionally you get duplicate. 
Why because as in the war when it had to get things done there were shifts of workers. The previous shift doesn’t mark off a number they have started making. 

The odd high numbers are guns they they realise there is a duplicate on the floor so the stamp another number on there so it can’t be confused. 
This makes sense to me. 
 
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...or as orders came in they may have made the guns in batches of approximately a hundred, fit and stamped them, blued them, and assembled and shipped that batch...and after another order came in made another batch and another as required? One batch may have been much larger than a hundred (I recall seeing 235 somewhere on the internet), for a total production of about 400-500 or so guns? This version of your theory would explain the duplicate or triplicate numbers?

I still am not sure the Falke numbers are serial numbers in the Weihrauch/FWB/Anschutz sense of the term...we are really down deep in the trivia cave here?
 
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I’m convinced there not serial numbers. But they rise numerically pretty much except for the duplicates until the odd few odd high numbers above 200. Of the ones above 200 if you take 2 of the digits you will find a duplicate. I think when they realised that 2 smiths had started with the same number say 35 one of them stamps a “2” in front and makes a 235. There just aren’t enough of those high numbers. Large gaps between those odd high numbers and the rest. I don’t think those guns exist. 
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/falke-resources/falke-80-90-number-database/


 
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I followed your restoration. The gun looks great. Is it walnut? and in .22. Both walnut and .22 are special orders! I was under the impression they didn’t stamp the break barrels at the factory. I wonder if your 70 came via South Africa or some other country where the guns were stamped for registration. It happens here in Oz. All guns must be registered and have a number for identification. 
How does it shoot?
 
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I agree that my "94" and your "21431" are stamped with a die using the same font. Do you think also that your "64" and c801tfd's Model 70 "4" are stamped using the same number die, but different from "64" and "21431"?

Do you think this could imply that my idea of guns being made in batches as purchase orders arrived is plausible? Obviously, this would suggest that my 90 and your 80 were made at the same time, and your 90 and c801tfd's 70 in a different batch? Perhaps different gunsmiths using different number die sets on the different batches?

If any of this makes sense, would it suggest at least three batches of 80/90 guns (remember: triplicate numbers!), with total production on order of 400 plus or so? If this is true, doesn't it also suggest that the numbers on 80/90 are batch specific, but not actual serial numbers?


 
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Ok I’ve been looking at these numbers and I’m certain I’ve worked it out. 
They were making the 2 models 80/90 at the same time. 
Only the tubes are stamped 80/90

When the stamped tapes were made they did 2 of each number. One for a model 80 and one for a 90. 
It’s when the taps and tubes were assembled we started getting duplicates. They put 2 of the same numbered taps on model 80 tubes. So then they would put 2 of the following number on 90 tubes.

So you have no 10 duplicate in model 80 and number 11 duplicate in model 90. 
If you check the numbers you’ll see the pattern. 
Only look at the “confirmed” numbers. 

I

 
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Hmmmmm...I agree they made the 80 and the 90 simultaneously since they really are the same airgun? (excluding stock, cocking lever, and tube stamping)

How do you explain the triplicates?

What do you mean by "...they put 2 of the same numbered taps on model 80 tubes. So then they would put 2 of the following number on 90 tubes"?

Do you know if there are more 80 than 90 still known? Someone on the internet said 200 90, 400 80 made?
 
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Any number is a guess. 
The duplicates occurred either when being assembled or perhaps when they stamping the model designation.
So they have 2 number “1” stamped tapes complete

1 for an 80 and 1 for a 90 but they make a mistake and they put them together both as 80’s 

Now they have 2 80’s instead of an 80&90

So to square up the numbers the next two taps no “2” both become model 90’s 

Then they return to doing correctly allocating one tap “3” to an 80 and one tap “3” to a 90



There will now never be a number “1” 90! 
There was only ever 1 triplicate and I think unconfirmed




 
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OK, I understand...

So we can never really know how many were made on the information available to us now, excluding someone from the factory giving new data (which is impossible after all these years)? Also, we agree the numbers stamped are not serial numbers as generally understood?

Do you have any thoughts on the slotted vs smooth dovetail? I'd think the slotted dovetail is an improvement used on later production guns to prevent sight slippage on the smooth dovetail? Note how the contemporaneous Weihrauch diopter sight has the set screw arrangement, and the FWB sights have the scalloped dovetail accepting the compression screw to prevent the slippage. The Falke rear and diopter sight might slip with only the single compression screw/no retaining slot? (Excuse my terminology, I do not know what the correct terms are, but you'll get the idea)
 
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AirSupply,

My Model 70 seems to be performing as it should with all of its original parts. The velocity average is approximately 520 fps using Crosman 14.3 domed pellets.

Since the stamping on the breech block are the only numbers connected with this rifle, I too assume it is some sort of import number. However, like you I wonder where the destination country was, as these were not imported into the United States and only made thier way here through other means.
 
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I agree we will probably never know exactly how many 80/90’s were made. Danny has done an amazing job compiling the data base of the rifles he has knowledge of. It would be terribly difficult to keep it accurate with gun being passed on or sold and then perhaps being recorded again as a new find. 


Perhaps we need a register were the details can be logged with particular care to include individual differences like you spotted with the font. 

The Falke diopters are a work of art aren’t they. Both my 80 & 90 have the notches like yours. I find it difficult sometimes to get it aligned but I do think it helps with slipping. I have fwb and Diana diopters no weihrauch unfortunately. Still on my list!😊

Your 90 looks very original and in great condition. Is it .177 or .22?

 
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