Eliminating Flyers from a Marauder

Forums PCP Airguns Eliminating Flyers from a Marauder

  • Views : 553
  • Link

    Nico5999
    Participant
    Member

    Hey all,

    I tricked out a Marauder this summer to shoot for field target.  Huma regulator (@111 BAR), LW Barrel (from custom shop), MDS Nylon 20g hammer, Hill 262 hammer spring, Hill valve spring – the works.

    I am getting about 75 regulated shots shooting JSB 10.3's at 875 FPS with an ES of 15 FPS and an SD of around 4 FPS.  

    I un-free-floated the barrel using an oring, and made sure the shroud is square to the breech.

    The gun is incredibly accurate (I'll upload some targets).

    HOWEVER, I'm still getting fliers, 1 every 10 shots or so.  I'm really puzzled as to what it could be at this point.

    I don't think it's me because fliers still creep in even with a front and rear bag.

    Could it be the pellets?  Should I start sorting/weighing/inspecting?  Is there an additional mod I can perform to help remedy the problem?  I use the gun for field target, so flyers kind of kill my vibe during a match.

    Thanks,
    Nic

    Link

    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    OK, my 2 cents (and that's about all it's worth)

    Minimally, inspect every pellet for damage to the skirt.  Any damage can cause problems.

    I weigh only for consistency in drop.  Weighing probably won't help with fliers as the flyer problem is typically aerodynamic.  

    The other thing you might consider, and this will be a pain, slow the pellet speed down to the 830 FPS range.  Sometimes, speed becomes your enemy and 875 might be a tad high.  Only experimentation can answer that question which means, taking the gun apart to adjust the regulator in a Marauder.  I shoot at about 830 in .22 and don't seem to have any flier problems.  

    Lastly, have you tried something other than the JSB's?  Maybe your Marauder just doesn't like them.  So many questions, but I'd start by inspecting for damage, and slowing down.

    Opinion worth what you paid for it –

    Link

    shambozzie
    Participant
    Member

    Nico, been at this game for a while. This is my personal experience. Fliers is a way of life. I have tried match pellets, sorting, weighting, measure head size and fliers still creep up. I have come to the conclusion just by quality pellets (jsb, H&n) and shoot out the tin. Lots of chatter on Google about this subject. A few world champions have the same opinion. 

    Link

    whitefox545
    Participant
    Member

    Nico, I'm right with Saltlake in what my opinion is worth!!  but here goes!!  You have covered all of the bases as far as your rifle goes, look's like you have put together a very nice and should be accurate package!!  That said being as you are shooting the 10.34 JSB's I would look at trying to find out what head size your rifle likes best. For some unknown reason JSB just can't seem to get it right when packaging the pellets! The head size marked on the little red sticker on the underside of the tin is for the most part a joke!!  I have purchased over 20,000 JSB 10.34 in 4.52 head size from 5 different vendors across the country and out of all of the tins i have found a little over 300 of them to be the as advertised size!,most all are way undersized!! They very from 4.49 4.50 and a few 451's and very few 4.52's  I am not saying your gun needs 4.52's or any other size in particular as only your gun can tell you that, but what I am saying is if you do find what size your particular barrel likes and you only shoot that size is that you will find you will get a lot fewer unexplained fliers I will assure you!!  I actually gave up on the 10.43 pellets and went to the 13.43 Monsters as they shot well and were packed as marked as far as head size goes with VERY few being 4.51 (maybe 15 to 20 per tin) 

     I purchased a" PELLET-GAUGE" last year and by using it I have reduced my fliers to practically zero.  Don't know if this will help you at all but here's hoping !!  J.L.

    Link

    whitefox545
    Participant
    Member

    Nico, I'm right with Saltlake in what my opinion is worth!!  but here goes!!  You have covered all of the bases as far as your rifle goes, look's like you have put together a very nice and should be accurate package!!  That said being as you are shooting the 10.34 JSB's I would look at trying to find out what head size your rifle likes best. For some unknown reason JSB just can't seem to get it right when packaging the pellets! The head size marked on the little red sticker on the underside of the tin is for the most part a joke!!  I have purchased over 20,000 JSB 10.34 in 4.52 head size from 5 different vendors across the country and out of all of the tins i have found a little over 300 of them to be the as advertised size!,most all are way undersized!! They very from 4.49 4.50 and a few 451's and very few 4.52's  I am not saying your gun needs 4.52's or any other size in particular as only your gun can tell you that, but what I am saying is if you do find what size your particular barrel likes and you only shoot that size is that you will find you will get a lot fewer unexplained fliers I will assure you!!  I actually gave up on the 10.43 pellets and went to the 13.43 Monsters as they shot well and were packed as marked as far as head size goes with VERY few being 4.51 (maybe 15 to 20 per tin) 

     I purchased a" PELLET-GAUGE" last year and by using it I have reduced my fliers to practically zero.  Don't know if this will help you at all but here's hoping !!  J.L.

    Link

    Nico5999
    Participant
    Member

    Whitefox – I shot with some great shooters at the PAC this year and they all were talking about using the JSB Monsters.

    I know JSB came out with 4.53 8.44's and those shot significantly better in my HW97 than the 4.52 pellets.  So you might be onto something about the undersized pellets causing fliers.

    I'll have to give those Monster's a try.

    Link

    ackuric
    Participant
    Member

    If you're using a magazine opposed to single loading then I would be highly suspicious of either the magazine or its spring causing slight damage to one of the pellets upon loading. Just a possibility!

    Link

    Xbowsniper
    Participant
    Member

    Nic,

    I've found that by sorting pellets, I've eliminated almost all fliers. 

    My order is this:::

    I wash them first.  This gets the releasing agent off, and any flakes that are in the tin from manufacturing.

    I then inspect the skirts, and the domes of the pellets for anomalies.

    I then weigh them in accordance to their weight.  My scale reads 8.02, 8.04, 8.05, etc.

    I then take the weight I want, usually I'll use 8.42, 8.44, and 8.46 for match use grouping. 

    I then check the headsize using a Pelletgage.  Depending on the gun, depends on the headsize, as well as the gun.

    I'll then roll them on a glass pane, with a square on it.  This insures the skirt/headsize is the same relationship as the last pellet.

    If I decide, I'll resize the pellets using a TR Robb pellet sizer.  I only do this process for certain guns.

    I then lube them, or not, also depending upon the gun.

    I would get aro d 5 fliers per match, I eliminated 1 shot for every step I took from the beginning.  When I go through the process stated above, I'll get very few fliers, if any.

    Recently I've been on an H&N kick, their pellet quality control has been upped a notch in the last year or so.

    With the Marauder, you kinda want to free float the barrel.  The shroud interferes with the natural harmonics of the barrel, and usually, not always, torques the barrel.  By eliminating the shroud, I eliminated a lot of temperature problems, as well as torque on the barrel. An easy test for this, is to sight the gun in at 30 yards.  Get pellet on pellet accuracy.  Take the shroud completely off.  Shoot the gun at 30 yards again.  If it is not zeroed, and shoots in a different spot, then the shroud is torquing the barrel, and that's what you don't want.  I'll almost guarantee that this is the case, I've never seen a Marauder not torque the barrel.  With the shroud attached, as it heats up, the shroud will want to move the barrel in some direction, and again, that's what you don't want.

    Hope this helps shed some light on this, any other questions give me a shout.

     

    Tom Holland 

    Link

    Elbowgrease
    Participant
    Member

    Like most have stated. Its a pellet issue. When I first got into PcPs I got a gen 1 Mrod which I still have. Its not the same air rifle but I still have it. I tried some of those crossman destroyers in .22. Flyers every few shots. It was crazy though. They would make a major sharp hook in the air and you could actually see it. However the crossman HPs where just fine with rarely any issues. 

    Link

    whitefox545
    Participant
    Member

    Hi! Nic, I just put two and two together and figured out who you are!!  You shoot a break barrel from the prone position correct?  Also you do very well at the gunslinger match that P.A. hosts!!  I think you will find that weighing and head sizing you pellets will help a lot with the flyers!  I do all of the good stuff to the pellets that I shoot in competition but only head size the ones I shoot for practice. I have found that head size at least for my rifles means much more than weighing washing and lubing but try it all as it can all make a difference in certain rifles but possibly not in others.  I have found a VERY small gain in accuracy from weighing I believe only because we only shoot out to 55 yards in field target, If we shot farther I believe the weight thing would mean more.  Try it all and make your own judgement but be aware that you will be bored to death very quickly!! ask me how i know!!

                                                                               Good luck with your new rifle!  you will get it worked out, Ive seen you shoot!!!   J.L.

    Link

    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    Wow, lots of good suggestions here to remember.  Let me see if I can catalog the bulk of them.

    Tom Holland – 

    Wash, inspect skirts, weigh, head size with Pellet Gauge, do the roll the pellet on glass test, and other barrel related suggestions (all good of course!)

    Check the magazine to ensure it's not reshaping or gouging the skirt.

    Reduce the speed of the pellet

    In my case, I have a Marauder in .22 (Tom shoots in .177 if I remember correctly, and at about 6 FPE for Field Target, again if I remember correctly)

    I had more accuracy problems when shooting over 900 FPS, and when slowed to 830ish FPS, fliers dropped significantly.  I always inspect and weight, and have begun lubing with Pledge, but haven't seen a big difference with the lube.

    Good stuff all, and I've learned a couple things here.  By the way, Tom has a YouTube channel, Field Target Tech that covers quite a bit of this stuff.  Good info

     

     

    Link

    Xbowsniper
    Participant
    Member

    Saltlake,

    Thanks for the kudos, it's well appreciated, I do it all for you guys.

    I do shoot Field Target, my guns (almost all of them) are 12 foot pounds for international WFTF PCP class.  This translates as a .177 8.44 grain JSB going just a touch under 800 feet per second.

    You generally will not see any accuracy increases when lubing them, but you most likely will keep the fouling to a minimum by using it.  This translates to cleaning the barrel every 5000 shots instead of every 300.  That's where it makes a big difference.

    Tom Holland 

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.