Edgun .25 R5M vs Marauder .25 sound comparison.

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BlackICE

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Oct 1, 2018
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Note these db measurements are only valid as a comparison between the two guns with the understanding that a PC microphone isn't very accurate in its frequency response and other measurement problems such as nearby reflections exist. Nevertheless better than subjective listening with my ears.

Using Audacity on a laptop PC I shot pellets into the air so that pellet impact noise isn't measured. The noise floor is about 51 db so anything less than that should ignored. The Marauder is about 5 db louder than the R5M also the sound duration of the Marauder is longer too. They are both shooting JSB Kings, the Marauder at 850 fps and the R5M at 920 fps. The discharge noise of the R5M is really only a whoosh air. Unrecognizable as a projectile accelerator. :)

Sound is attenuated by air, more so with high frequencies than low frequencies. So what someone will hear will vary greatly depending on the distance from the source and doesn't follow the idealistic inverse square law.

I added some sound damping material to the shroud of the R5M as seen in the photos. I put one layer of foam against the shroud but not covering the vents. Then I added 2 turns of polyester felt. Since my early sound testing of the mod was flawed (I was measuring the pellet impact not the discharge noise) I don't have any before and after numbers. But subjectively it did make a noticeable difference.

I included some wav files what the shots sounded like.

1539852167_15790190935bc847877c8c45.69033099_20181015_165815_1539849396894_resized.jpg
1539852168_3174674005bc84788abc678.36626087_20181015_173138_1539849391810_resized.jpg
1539852168_18723597855bc8478823c2a2.70187288_20181015_171958_1539849394498_resized.jpg


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1539851024_15018404375bc843107b4048.92273465_R5M.jpg
1539851024_4395717065bc84310bc11b7.71955724_Mrod.jpg
1539851024_13074899195bc84310ee50c3.04235510_Mrod R5M free air.jpg

 
I am very suspicious regarding that kind of measurent with the tools which are not set especially to meassure the quick sound change. The second thing is -- even if measuring that way, the guns should be set to the same level of the energy, as there is no line dependens of the air consumption (thus sound) at the speed over 250 m/sec. so evern 10 m/sec can play a great role. So, either one gun should be supressed to the energy of another, or vise versa. 
 
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Hmm, very unfair comparison? Mods heavily done to one rifle to aid in suppression, while no mention of mods done to other..all with inadequate equipment at different power levels.

I have a custom moderator that took my DB down around 5 db's from stock...should I go grab a stock RM5 and compare it to my heavily modified marauder?



Maruader comes with a 7/8" shroud and ldc. And is a 450$~ rifle at most...



Look at edguns LDC, not sure its OD but it looks 1.5"...a HUGE gain in volume, along with a retail price of 1885$. (amazing gun btw Ed)



Is it really fair to compare the two? The Edgun should be MUCH quieter just looking at the shroud/moderator size...I don't need a db meter to tell you that. Apples to Oranges.
 
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You are right, on one hand, but wrong on the other :) The moderator is a quite sensitive topic to discuss :) Making the gun the manufacturer is always have to balance between the size and the sound leverl suppressed. No problem to make completely silent moderator, just make it longer. And that trick is used by all of those who makes tuning of the gun -- they just increase the size of the gun with a new moderator and -- what a miracle it became quiter! :) Don't you think a manufacturer couldn't do the same thing? 



That is why I decided to grow up wide instead of length :) as in this case the comfortability of using the gun remain the same but the sound supressed much better. I started it with off set moderators for R3 and then used for R5 platform as they were so great in R3. 



So, to compare the sound level one need not to compare the price of the gun, but, I think, the size of the gun (length), the energy of the pellet (to compare the sound level the energy should be set at the same level as the moderator is effective in the combination of the whole valve system and the common air consupmtion effitiency) and the sound, but not by the device, but by people. Just take 10 people turn them around and shoot different guns set to the same enery at the different distance and ask them to value the sound level from 1 to 5.
 
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Edguns May have the quietest muzzle report, but let’s not forget to mention they also have the loudest ping as well.
Click to expand...



1. That is the questoin to compare :) Even the same models of the gun with the same adjustment can ping different, or not to ping at all. A lot of reasons and combinations of the reasons.



2. From the poing of view backyard shooting ping is not heard by anybody but the shooter :)
 
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The program used to record the sound samples it at over 44 KHz so peaks will be recorded for sounds in the range human hearing. The weakness is that cheap microphones on a PC don't have accurate response curve, errors in the A/D convertion and the microphone placement relative to the muzzle isn't controlled as well as it should be. Also a building was directly behind where the measurement was taken which also can greatly affect the results. This test program isn't valid to find absolute dB value, but is valid to compare sounds between different guns under the conditions that they will be used in.

You are right that the the R5M was shooting at a much higher velocity so the test wasn't fair. However my goal wasn't a fair test, but to see if my new Edgun R5M could be lighter, shorter, more powerful, with a higher shot count and better handling while still being quieter. My testing show me that my goals have been met and exceeded! It is much quieter than my Marauder at a much higher power level. I can shoot the R5M into the air and someone standing right next to me would not know I fired an air gun. It sounds more like a rapid release of pressurized air without any pop or crack noises. At 50 meters away I don't think anyone would hear a thing. I doubt if any other guns is as powerful as the R5M while being as quiet, light and short. Putting a Donny Emperor on other guns may be quieter, but then you have a added 10" and 13 oz to the end of the barrel!

I like the fact that Edgun decided to increase the shroud diameter instead of making a longer shroud. Not only does that allow the gun to be shorter but also less muzzle heavy which make is easier to shoot offhand. I was deciding between the R5M and other bullpups and went with the R5M because I thought it would be the quietest one out of the box. All the other bullpups would require adding a moderator that would increase the cost, weight and length. Things I wanted to avoid. The R5M long is so quiet that the muzzle sound is never going issue. As for the ping and hammer noises. I saw Ted's video about that and another R5M owner's post on this forum that found the hammer noise unacceptable. So I did a small test using other guns that I have. Putting a revolver, and 1911 frame against my face as dry firing. Yes I can hear the noise, but it isn't bothersome to me. Also one of my bolt action rifles has a much louder firing pin noise when the trigger is pull. I never heard the pinging noise since my ears are bad with tinnitus I can't hear anything over 8 KHz. I don't know if I'm blinking since I don't video myself shooting :)

I didn't even try to optimize the tune for air efficiency yet, only turned the hammer spring setting a little. At the power level I was shooting at I believe the regulator can be turned down and the sound should even be less. Out of the box it was shooting JSB kings at about 880 FPS the pellets were grouping real well, as I increase the velocity up to 950 the accuracy suffered so I backed off to 920 where it group about as well as the 880 did. I did find it interesting that the Kings that I am using had the worst ES and SD number than the 3 other pellets I tried. These were 9 shot groups for the statistics, except for the Grizzly where I delete 2 shot because they were too low. I think I didn't close the bolt all the way on those shots. Grizzlies take more force to chamber.

Why do I keep reading about other guns needing to break the regulators in before you can get a low ES and SD? Some owners of other brands give up because the low ES never happens so they buy a Huma.



Pellet Average ES SD

Kings 917 10 3.2

Polymag 908 5 1.8

Crosman P 876 4 1.7

H&N Baracuda 831 3 1.3

H&N Grizzly 771 14 5.1

They are group pretty well except the Grizzlies without any changes to the tune. I have read that some other guns can only shoot JSB pellets well. Edgun's barrel can shoot almost anything well!


 
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Following the forums I could make a dissertation and got Doctor of Psychology degree, watching how people are subjected to somebody's oppinion :) OK, take that "ping" for example -- somebody has found it terrible up to the conditon "blood out of ear" and that is the base for the others run away! :) 



I always tell everybody, don't belive only to one single sourse of the information, try always find the others and only then, based on as many as possible oppinions make your own decision before you run in. Don't run in based on the single wonderfull reaction or run out based on sinble bad report. That is important not only when you buy ariguns but in the normal :) life as well. The less emotion you get while analizing the better choise you can make. That is the rule. 



The problem is that we all are subjected to somebody's oppinion, the "authority", and we quite often forget that "authority" can follow his own purpose, which can be quite far away of ours. From my practice, when I've started I got quite more issues with the guns (I still have them but much less, as that is impossible to make the perfect staff, doesn't matter what budget you have, look at the space inductry for example. But the difference of an issues as a summary of the circumstances and issues as planned on the stage of the design quite different) and I've read forums and participated in the discussions and, no doubt I could easily see the "authorites" the people who were considered as "guru" and other people listen to them.



So, what should a normal capitalist do if some of the "authorities" asked him to sell him a gun? Correct, knowing his weight in that media he should give him the good tested, prooven, without any failures gun. I am not normal. As I told I am stupid, I think for a long term perspectie not for "catch and run" method of work. So I gave ordinary gun, as to anybody else, as I made for unknown person who never make a "press" in media. Stupid isn't it? Epecially taking into consideration the fact that there were an issue and me and the gun was just pushed to mud :) 



But my possition was (and still is) very simple -- I have to increase the level of the product in general, not one gun for "special" person, but the guns in general. I know that is a long process and I defenetly lose some reputation taking into consideration the fact that crown loves to listen to "authority" and follow the fuhrer :) As I believe that is the only way to move forward and run in a long term perspective (unless "authority" will not kill me ruining reputation :) ) Besides that is fair to people who pays me money, even if they are "nobody" from the point of view of media.



So, don't belive anybody, especially the manufacturer :) or their puppets :), consider the information calmly and without any emotions, calculate, compare, choose. That is the only way to live not regreting of making mistakes, as in this case if there is an mistake, that is the only yours and you will not feel as you were ****ed up by some "authority" :)



Ed




 
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I never made any claims on how loud a particular gun was, only a relative comparison between two guns. As far as that goes Marauder is considered one of the quieter guns sold. Probably quieter than a Leyla at the same power level. As far as the birds not reacting that doesn't prove much other than they are deaf or stupid. Have shot birds with much louder guns and they just look around wondering what the hell was going on.
 
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Yea, I've shot the marauder. The gun may be quiet, but it is hard to tell with that cylinder ping and hammer bounce. Those birds are dump, but even dump birds would of flew if it was not an effective moderator. 

So, weather one is slightly more quiet or not, it does not matter if the both can stop the dump birds from flying off after the first shot.
 
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