EBR Target Challenge

Good shooting Tom !! Good groups!

Glad it's better for you.

From my view, you may have scored higher on some, especially the 224 card. Insert a pellet into the hole and if it TOUCHES the ring, it counts the higher score.

Still... very good, especially considering no flags.

Bob

Mike - Good luck on the FT match coming up. Which .177 gun are you shooting for the match?

Bobby, Jimmy, Mike B - Thanks for the accolades! I did use Mike N’s .35 scoring plug to try and score the targets. I may have scored incorrectly. 

Great hobby!

Hey guys, where can I buy some quality wind flags? I’ve done quite a few searches online and have found some flags but not the quality flags I’m looking for. I don’t know the name of the company that make quality flags. It’s always windy here, reading the wind velocity at the bench helps but I need some better indicators at 25, 50, 75 and 100yds, Thanks guys. Stoti

The ones the Mike N of Thomas rifle fame recommended are Graham wind flags and I found a thread on Benchrest Central that recommended www.flyingfishfundamentals.com

They are both about the same price and both look well made but not terribly expensive. We purchased two of the Grahams and the are very nice and help a LOT. I'm planning to make a double wing version similar to one of the FlyingFish models just to compare. It's important to have some way to level them and adjust the height near your line of trajectory to see the closest indication of the wind in its path.

There is a post much earlier in this thread with links from Centercut .

The reason I want to try something different is that in EBR, there is typically a SEA of flags on the range with 40 benches being used and one year when I was on the line and looking at all the flags....pointing all different directions. .... ONE stood out as being the earliest to respond and also correlate to my shots. It looked like the FlyingFish double wing model but I have no idea who made it.

If you go to EBR or similar or do some research on Benchrest Central, you will see more ways people have come up with to try and figure out the wind than seems possible. Always have to keep in mind, though, the flag only shows history.... it can't tell the future, so you have to see if there is a condition that seems to last long enough for you to shoot 1 or more shots in.

A good example was yesterday ... BlueBaby kicked my butt again with a constantly changing 1 to 6 mph. I found a left to right condition that seemed like I could hold on the 8 ring at 10 oclock and drop them in but unfortunately , it would only last a few seconds and if I waited too long.... a 7 or 8 was the result. She apparently found something better. I had a 222 and 226 while she had a 226, 226, and 229.

Fun stuff !

Bob

I got the Graham flags recently because I got tired of fixing my own very delicate (but super fast) flags. The Graham’s are probably 20 times or more heavier than my flags...but can take a beating. I often forget to bring my flags in, and it’s not uncommon to have 40 mph wind here. The Graham’s can survive a digger and go back to business.

The vane of the flag is only there to tell you the angle of the wind, and the heavier the flag is in proportion to the area the slower it will react. If you balance the flags a little tail heavy it will damp out the flutter and give you more of an average. If they are balanced nose heavy they will react and turn with every little change and give you the illusion that they are telling you something more than a tail heavy flag. Over time this constant bobbing gets tiresome to look at and ultimately you won’t shoot any better. Without the black and white balls on the front, you will not be able to tell a 8:00 wind angle from a 10:00 downrange. The dual vane wind flags are heavy, but you can easily discern wind angle because the inside of one vane is a different color from the outside of the other, so you will see the color mismatch and be able to tell the angle. An 8:00 average wind angle is going to move the pellet up more than a 10:00...that’s why that is important to know the difference.


I would avoid the giant heavy propellers. They won’t help tell you anything, and like a gyroscope they will also slow down reaction.

The tail of the flag is where I put most of my focus. I try not to shoot unless the tails are flowing fully. If the end of the tail is fluttering or curling...it’s not a good time to shoot because the indicated flag angle is not the real wind direction due to a swirl or a switch. It may be quick enough that the flag vane will never respond by turning...but the light tail will tell you it’s not smooth. The smooth conditions are often fleeting so you must be ready to shoot immediately when they flow.

i recommend just putting your flags out in the back yard and using a child’s bubble maker machine under them to get an idea of what the vane and tail do in various conditions. You will learn about what the tails look like in smooth conditions, and what they look like in buffeting conditions. Often those 2 conditions look the same on a flag if you are not focusing on the details. Try putting the flag on the leeward and windward sides of obstacles and see what happens. Cars are good for this. Try to simulate things you might see on a competition range.

You need to be able to see all of your flags with your left eye. I like my flags to look like they are all in a lateral row going away from me to my left. I use a string that I fasten to my rest and pull it out to about 2 feet left of the target...then place my flags on the line. The string has little ribbons attached to it where I place a flag. Depending on the slope of the range you may have to make height adjustments to get things in line.

That said...you won’t be able to tell exactly what’s happening between you and the target at 100y with a pellet. So far nobody is good enough to do that even at 25m. But if you learn a little more than your competition, you may make a little better decisions more often.

Mike

Thanks for the quick reply Bob, I really do appreciate it. I’ve been looking for one particular type of flag and it just one come up in any of my searches. Thank you also Mike, I just saw your post while I was posting. Great information! I have shot long range with center fire rifles quite a bit over the years to 1200yds, so I do understand full value vs. half value vs. quarter value depending on wind angle. I just need something to be able to see other than a anemometer at the bench. It’s just crazy how much these pellets can be blown at 100yds vs. a 6mm Berger BT @ 3000fps

So I went to our range this morning at 7am hoping to beat the wind. I shot four cards... 224 1x, 231 2x, 232 7x and... wait for it, wait for it... 238 8x! My best ever, I’m absolutely stoked!!! There was absolutely no wind so I could try different hold pressure, single feed, magazine feed, snap shooting, trigger pull on exhale vs. skip breathing, etc. and know the result was me and not the wind. Talk about a confidence builder. Have a great holiday weekend! Stoti

Impact .25, 700mm slug liner, King Heavies 39.9-34.0gr @ 910fps, Vortex Golden Eagle @ 50x, 

Stoti

Incredible shooting , Stoti !!!!

THANK YOU ! Mike for the info. Very well described .

Bob

Thanks guys, that’s exactly what I was looking for. The Graham flags are what I had seen and wanted to buy. 

Everyone have a great holiday weekend!!

Stoti

Stoti - amazing shooting!

Your lowest card (224) equals my ‘best ever’ EBR Target card at 224 with the RW Safari .22 HP, which I shot last week. But, I’m happy I broke out of the teens.

I would be jumping over the moon and back with a 230 anything. Just to make you feel even better about your cards going into the Holiday weekend, my best EBR target with my Anschutz .22 RF was a 238 at 1105 FPS with 40g RWS 50 bullets. You shot that same score with a pellet gun along with several others on this thread. Can you tell I’m a little jealous!

With all of you guys around, I would not want to be a squirrel crawling on one of your 100 yard targets. 

Have a great Labor Day folks! 

Yes Tommy, I’m ecstatic! I wanted to call someone or post a picture right then and there when I shot it! I’m learning a lot about shooting these cards really fast which has me pumped too! I’m jealous of people here too. Today, having no wind at all was a great help in being able to figure some things out and build my confidence. 

Mike, believe me, I feel you. I’m actually kind of glad to hear you say that. Not in a mean way of course, but until today, when there was absolutely no wind, I was really perplexed as to what was going on with random fliers on some of the cards I shot. Was it me or the gun? It did happen to me again today on some of these shots as you can see, but today with no wind I could ascertain why it was happening. If I don’t actually pick up my Impact and reposition it to a natural point of aim on each target, I will get a flier on the first shot on the next target. You know how bad a first shot feels! Sucks! Just a little torque on the gun makes accuracy go down considerably. It’s actually pretty crazy how sensitive it can be sometimes. I’m glad I finally had a windless day to figure things out. 

With that being said, I was just looking at my card and I think it’s a 9x, maybe 10x. I try to score these conservatively but I noticed I missed the X’s on the top left target. 

I really appreciate all of your help and everyone’s encouragement. Like I’ve told you before, I had never shot these cards at 100yds before last week and it really is a lot harder than shooting a random 5 shot group at 100yds. It really is so fun for my boys and I even though there is a lot to learn. I also realize that the card. I shot today was because there was no wind and this type of shooting really is about reading the wind. I’m really glad Bob and Mike N. chimed in about the wind flags, getting a hold of 4 or 5 of those will be a huge help in reading the wind and assigning it a hold value. Essential for helping my boys shoot at these distances...well me too but at least I have some experience with holding for wind. 

Again, thank you Mike, Mike , Tommy and Bob, it’s awesome to have a forum like AGN and people like you guys that are willing to help others, like me, in disciplines where we have less experience and knowledge. Really cool! I hope you all have a safe and fun Labor day weekend!

Stoti 



P.S.

Here’s the other target I was talking about Mike. It could have been good, if not for the high and left fliers on 4 of the targets(6pts.) This is where I found I was torquing the gun and causing it to shoot high and left. I was also having a bit of vertical stringing which caused me to question my POA. Which leads me to another question. In competition, can a competitor shoot a sighter during the course of his shot string to confirm the POI?

Awesome shooting. Great job! Updating page1.
I’m losing confidence in Bleu and the RD Monsters. Shot 8 cards in light swirling breezes last evening between 223 and 228. Just can’t explain, every card there are 2 or 3 “mystery” flyers that I have no idea why. That’s 6 to 9 points per card. Same wind, same flags, same flag tails. Same pellet speed, same hold, etc. My .30 FX Bobcat Mk2 NEVER behaved like this. Frustrated? Just a little... . But I haven’t given up yet, and have more things on my list to try and test. This gun has so much potential that I need to get to the bottom of it. If it hadn’t thrown those 2 or 3 flyers per card I would have shot 8 cards in a row over 230...

Click to expand...

Ditto Mike!

Pretty much having the same experience. Three or Four flyers per card, but since I’m not using flags at all I can’t tell if the wind is pushing them around or not. Candidly, I can be shooting a good card and out of nowhere, I get a miss or a pellet just touching the 7 ring on a couple of targets. I know you are working on some analysis, so looking forward to your findings.. 

p.s. Vince Lombardi - “ When the going gets tough, the “tough” get going. You’ll figure it out!

Not that I am an expert but I get fliers as well. I don’t think it is any way shape or form the gun. Like someone’s mentioned earlier. Shooting at 100yds with an Airgun is not easy. So many small nuances can change the trajectory or the pellet. I would be curious as to how you would score with your Bobcat. As you always say put it to paper then decide. 

Whoa, went to order some Graham flags just now...6 to 8 week ship time. Any other suggestions? Is Flyfishingfundamentals the next best thing or are there other better options? Can I make something that will work well? Thanks in advance.

Stoti

Very impressive stoti, I have found that on some the most perfect days I’ve shot impressive or I had to shoot a few shots just to find my hold . It’s not just the environment but my self to settle in with a consistent hold. But that’s just me 

From the looks of the FlyingFish models, I would say they are as good. I was able to experience the Grahams at Mike N's range and decided to go for them. Took about 3 weeks for ours to arrive .