Did Some More Expansion Testing

I finally like many here got my shipment of the new FX Hybrid .22 caliber slugs. I went about initially shooting them in my FX Impact with the slug liner to get a velocity. This was done in my basement were the temperature was 60 degrees. The next day I took out the slug liner and installed the pellet liner as they say this will be more accurate with the FX Hybrids. Now the temperature outside was 32 degrees and my first shots were down from 919 fps to 875 fps or 44 fps. So the question was how much of this loss was due to temperature and how much to the barrel liner differences. Next I went back to the basement at 60 degrees with the pellet liner and used my FX Radar to get the indoor velocity. I got approximately 900 fps or a gain of 25 fps due to temperature. This meant that I also lost about 20 fps probably due to increase friction in the pellet liner. I plan at a later date to test both liners at 50 yards and beyond to see if there is an accuracy difference.

Next on to the expansion testing. I decided to compare both the .22 caliber FX Hybrids at 22 grains to the NSA 23 grain HP FB for expansion shot into a 12 oz. block of 20% Clear Ballistic gel. This is the approximate weight of an pigeon. There has been a lot of hype about the Hybrids expansion with people shooting into dense heavy clay blocks, buckets of water and items that weigh much more than many of the pests and game we shoot. I already had found out shooting appropriate weight gel blocks with the NSA's there was very little expansion. I am not downing the NSA slugs as they get the job down at longer distances with their better b.c. , accuracy and also are way less costly than the Hybrids. I did want to see the difference in expansion between the two on a more accurate pest testing media.

After getting my base reading with the Impact I switched over to my FX Dream Pup with slug liner to do my testing. You may ask why do this? Well I did my testing in my basement and with only 14 yards to the block I did not want to hit it with full power and exaggerate the expansion. Well I did the testing between the two slugs and made a mistake of not have the same impact energy at the target and got skewed results. I was able to correct this error and my results for distance on my Chairgun tables were very close. I think the results I got will be closer to what you would expect hitting a pigeon at 106 to 110 yards. This is with your rifle shooting about 900 to 920 fps at the muzzle with the Hybrids. Hopefully the video will make it more clear how I did my testing. The bringing of the hybrid slugs by FX looks like another great advancement for the airgun world. Bill







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9PFWn5Qnn4&ab_channel=GunPowder%26AirPower

For those not wanting to watch the video. Here is the result of hitting a 12 oz.pigeon weight ballistic gel block with both the NSA 23 grain and FX Hybrid 22 grain

with approximately 28.88 fpe. For my FX Impact that translates to hitting a pigeon at about 105 yards. The NSA's not much expansion while the FX Hybrid expanded

to almost 30 caliber.

1577050327_13436650505dffe0d71eac41.68027692_IMG_20191222_162149.jpg





 
Thanks for the work in sharing that... 

Remember, in really cold weather, the barrel will contract a touch, and lead will get harder. I think that explains the fps drop. I've noticed similar.

FYI. The weight of the gel block means nothing in this testing. I don't care if your gel was 100 meters high... The ONLY values that matter, are sectional density, and thickness. Have you calibrated your gel block to the Alphabet org standard??

BTW I have a PhD in physics and an MD. 

I am 100% sure the NSA's expand quite nicely through smallish critters and birds. I feel your data might not be entirely correct, for several reasons. Would be quite unfair to Mr. Nielsen should you present this as "valid" data without really considering the actual variables in play. 
 
Thanks for the work in sharing that... 

Remember, in really cold weather, the barrel will contract a touch, and lead will get harder. I think that explains the fps drop. I've noticed similar.

FYI. The weight of the gel block means nothing in this testing. I don't care if your gel was 100 meters high... The ONLY values that matter, are sectional density, and thickness. Have you calibrated your gel block to the Alphabet org standard??

BTW I have a PhD in physics and an MD. 

I am 100% sure the NSA's expand quite nicely through smallish critters and birds. I feel your data might not be entirely correct, for several reasons. Would be quite unfair to Mr. Nielsen should you present this as "valid" data without really considering the actual variables in play.

I agree with your statement regarding the barrel contracting and lead getting harder not to mention the more aggressive rifling in the pellet liner slowing down the slug. As far as the ballistic gel I am using it is an actual make made by 'Clear Ballistics'. It is a reusable and a calibrated ballistic gel. I did doing some more reading up on the product found out my 20% gel is the Nato version which is twice as dense as the 10% Alphabet org version. So this would exaggerate the results in my test. You can't tell me that the weight of the block has nothing to do with the expansion. I have like the others shot into full 8 pound blocks of the gel and other media and the weight of the block provide further resistance to the slug increasing expansion. The place I used to work we would get college interns and they were always telling me I should change methods we we using. I would tell them what you learn in the book does not always translate for every situation. There is always common sense and experience that accounts for just as much.

You make the statement that your "100% sure the NSA's expand quite nicely through smallest critters and birds" but have you actually did any testing where you recovered the slug to find out. I plan to do that in the future but with the freezing winter weather we are having requires you do the testing right away before the test subject freezes. Now with your concern about me being unfair to Mr. Nielson. I have stated that his slugs are of high quality and have many good qualities that make them desirable for shooting. However pointing out an aspect that might be lacking can be a good thing. Many manufactures don't have the time to do testing. The more feedback we can give them can help to improve their products. I think that FX is a company that has embraced the feedback from the airgun community to improve and bring us better products. Bill
 
Thanks for the work in sharing that... 

Remember, in really cold weather, the barrel will contract a touch, and lead will get harder. I think that explains the fps drop. I've noticed similar.

FYI. The weight of the gel block means nothing in this testing. I don't care if your gel was 100 meters high... The ONLY values that matter, are sectional density, and thickness. Have you calibrated your gel block to the Alphabet org standard??

BTW I have a PhD in physics and an MD. 

I am 100% sure the NSA's expand quite nicely through smallish critters and birds. I feel your data might not be entirely correct, for several reasons. Would be quite unfair to Mr. Nielsen should you present this as "valid" data without really considering the actual variables in play.

I agree with your statement regarding the barrel contracting and lead getting harder not to mention the more aggressive rifling in the pellet liner slowing down the slug. As far as the ballistic gel I am using it is an actual make made by 'Clear Ballistics'. It is a reusable and a calibrated ballistic gel. I did doing some more reading up on the product found out my 20% gel is the Nato version which is twice as dense as the 10% Alphabet org version. So this would exaggerate the results in my test. You can't tell me that the weight of the block has nothing to do with the expansion. I have like the others shot into full 8 pound blocks of the gel and other media and the weight of the block provide further resistance to the slug increasing expansion. The place I used to work we would get college interns and they were always telling me I should change methods we we using. I would tell them what you learn in the book does not always translate for every situation. There is always common sense and experience that accounts for just as much.

You make the statement that your "100% sure the NSA's expand quite nicely through smallest critters and birds" but have you actually did any testing where you recovered the slug to find out. I plan to do that in the future but with the freezing winter weather we are having requires you do the testing right away before the test subject freezes. Now with your concern about me being unfair to Mr. Nielson. I have stated that his slugs are of high quality and have many good qualities that make them desirable for shooting. However pointing out an aspect that might be lacking can be a good thing. Many manufactures don't have the time to do testing. The more feedback we can give them can help to improve their products. I think that FX is a company that has embraced the feedback from the airgun community to improve and bring us better products. Bill

Here's a .22 NSA 17.5 HP 30 yard shot, 920fps for 32fpe at the muzzle. Pretty good expansion imo.

I've yet to recover one from pest birds shot, nothing but pass through with devastating results. 

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1577123678_19832825965e00ff5e3d2a78.21501988_20191204_111737.jpg

 
Kkarmical it appears your recover slug was from a head shot. I am interested as I said in another post in the case of a squirrel if you can get good expansion on chest shots. Hunting wild squirrels not the back yard bait squirrels is more challenging. Since head shots are not always available at times I take chest shots. If you can get good expansion there that is a game changer. In the case of hitting the hard skull of a squirrel of course you are going to get much better expansion. In that situation it does not matter if you are head shooting squirrels with hollow points or domes/round nose rounds as both will be killing shots. I am just getting back from some night vision starling shooting but earlier today I shot a couple pigeons with the FX Hybrids. I did as I said I would do some comparison shots on the dead pigeon at fifty yards with both the NSA's and the FX Hybrids. The results pretty much mirrored my ballistic gel block testing. I did some phone video and photos of the test and will post when I get the time. Bill








 
Kkarmical it appears your recover slug was from a head shot. I am interested as I said in another post in the case of a squirrel if you can get good expansion on chest shots. Hunting wild squirrels not the back yard bait squirrels is more challenging. Since head shots are not always available at times I take chest shots. If you can get good expansion there that is a game changer. In the case of hitting the hard skull of a squirrel of course you are going to get much better expansion. In that situation it does not matter if you are head shooting squirrels with hollow points or domes/round nose rounds as both will be killing shots. I am just getting back from some night vision starling shooting but earlier today I shot a couple pigeons with the FX Hybrids. I did as I said I would do some comparison shots on the dead pigeon at fifty yards with both the NSA's and the FX Hybrids. The results pretty much mirrored my ballistic gel block testing. I did some phone video and photos of the test and will post when I get the time. Bill








Actually the shot I was going for was neck into the chest, but squirrel turned after I took the shot, catching its face on the way into the neck, into the chest, slug recovered behind the opposite side behind front leg.

I have a picture that is probably too much for a website, I'll try to PM it to you, but I cut under skin open neck area and its shows the damage.