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Diana 48 pellets

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    Yup.  When I chrony it, I'm usually getting around 15 FPE with all pellets.  Ill havr to look at my results again because i think 1 pellet gave me near 17 FPE with a smaller extreme spread and more consistent FPS.  When I had tested that pellet early on, it didnt shoot as accurately as the 21.14 grain on targets.  It was the H&N field target 5.53 14.66 grain.  Not that I'm dissatisfied, but I was hoping to be around 5 FPE "stronger".  I love how it groups, so my plan is to inspect the spring sometime very soon (when my spring lube arrives).  If the spring appears to be in good shape, I'll lube it and leave it, and replace it when it dies on me.  If there's a spring issue at all (which would surprise me as the shot cycle is so smooth–even though I know plenty of people who have had broken springs with no other symptoms than decreased power-but I will still be surprised nonetheless), then I'll replace it.  

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    JamesD.
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +56

    I’d try 15-18.13 JSB’s but I’d also be listening to & feeling the shot cycle. You can tell a good smooth shot cycle.

     I personally have John Thomas of PA tune all my springers. I want my Walther LGV to have full power kit put back in as 16.20’s should be AWESOME. I have (3) 48’s a .177 & .22 & JIPA tuned 48 .177. Have a JIPA tuned 52 .25. JIPA tuned.22 R1, JIPA HW30.177 that literally beat my Dad’s Savage.22 WSM at 50 yards. I shoot on 2-3x and align top of front sight post with exact perfection of target, front post, reticle, my left eye while right is open (I always shoot with both eyes open) John tuned my El Gamo 300, 54’s, 56’s, some HW’s. 

    I bought some tuned guns from sellers who self tuned and have been VERY happy. Others I doubt they even tarred spring let alone switched seals, buttoned anything let alone switch spring, stoned anything in trigger & vibra tight screws. 

    Thus I do wish to learn spring gun tuning besides just being able to adjust a Marauder well or increase PCP power.

     I think your 48 can handle 21 but like my R1 needs 5.52. And JSB 18.13 does shoot flatter. Flatter doesn’t matter if not hole in hole though right?

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    JamesD.
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +56

    Glenroiland

    Yup.  When I chrony it, I'm usually getting around 15 FPE with all pellets.  Ill havr to look at my results again because i think 1 pellet gave me near 17 FPE with a smaller extreme spread and more consistent FPS.  When I had tested that pellet early on, it didnt shoot as accurately as the 21.14 grain on targets.  It was the H&N field target 5.53 14.66 grain.  Not that I'm dissatisfied, but I was hoping to be around 5 FPE "stronger".  I love how it groups, so my plan is to inspect the spring sometime very soon (when my spring lube arrives).  If the spring appears to be in good shape, I'll lube it and leave it, and replace it when it dies on me.  If there's a spring issue at all (which would surprise me as the shot cycle is so smooth–even though I know plenty of people who have had broken springs with no other symptoms than decreased power-but I will still be surprised nonetheless), then I'll replace it.  

    A lighter pellet will give higher ftlbs to a point of diminishing returns. There’s a balance you must find.

    Maybe I missed it but what head size is your 21.14? Kodiak or Baracuda or Baracuda Match 5.50-5.55? I’d try all but depending on TO1,5,6 they like different head sizes. I wish my R1 would shoot anything like 5.52 RWS Superdomes and sized 5.52 18.13’s

    I’ve had a lot of spring guns and loved a lot but my TX200’s shot most everything very well. Short good barrel helps which is why I cut my El Gamo 300 to 11” and hand crowned with Swiss files perfectly. John still hasn’t choked it but when a 6-7ftlb gun can put almost anything in 7-8.44 range under a dime at 38 yards, do I really need to?

    Springers aren’t dead. In fact I believe if a “Kid” is gonna get an airgun with today’s capabilities in PCP’s, maybe there should be a spring gun mastering/hunter safety course as WE know pellets need to be even more precise than we are in Archery. Worst thing is wounded Game animal. I make exceptions for Chicken killing Coyotes. I’ll be whacking them any which way I can if I can’t call them within 75 yards and have my .22 slugs to .257 or eventually .357 RAW. I still won’t sell my spring guns to buy some PCP’s I want, and I have a $3200+$250 shipping 5K compressor in basement. Maybe that should have been banked for lathe, mill, instrumentation & tooling as I really don’t use it. In fact I’m buying up any good used Hill MKII-III & spring guns I can.

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    Deleted Account
    Accuracy: +80

    My Diana's all like H&N FTT and specifically the 5.54 head diameter.  I used to size them.  Then I realized hat they are sized as they are seated in the barrel.  I ordered about fifteen tins of 5.55s and they shoot just fine.

    Every rifle is a little different and I found it odd that my D460 likes the same pellet that my D48 likes.

    https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-d48-is-happy-she-has-found-her-favorite-food/

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    JamesD.

    A lighter pellet will give higher ftlbs to a point of diminishing returns. There’s a balance you must find.

    Maybe I missed it but what head size is your 21.14? Kodiak or Baracuda or Baracuda Match 5.50-5.55? I’d try all but depending on TO1,5,6 they like different head sizes. I wish my R1 would shoot anything like 5.52 RWS Superdomes and sized 5.52 18.13’s

    I’ve had a lot of spring guns and loved a lot but my TX200’s shot most everything very well. Short good barrel helps which is why I cut my El Gamo 300 to 11” and hand crowned with Swiss files perfectly. John still hasn’t choked it but when a 6-7ftlb gun can put almost anything in 7-8.44 range under a dime at 38 yards, do I really need to?

    Springers aren’t dead. In fact I believe if a “Kid” is gonna get an airgun with today’s capabilities in PCP’s, maybe there should be a spring gun mastering/hunter safety course as WE know pellets need to be even more precise than we are in Archery. Worst thing is wounded Game animal. I make exceptions for Chicken killing Coyotes. I’ll be whacking them any which way I can if I can’t call them within 75 yards and have my .22 slugs to .257 or eventually .357 RAW. I still won’t sell my spring guns to buy some PCP’s I want, and I have a $3200+$250 shipping 5K compressor in basement. Maybe that should have been banked for lathe, mill, instrumentation & tooling as I really don’t use it. In fact I’m buying up any good used Hill MKII-III & spring guns I can.

    The 21.14 is 5.51.  Shoots them tight and consistent velocities.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    JamesD.

    I’d try 15-18.13 JSB’s but I’d also be listening to & feeling the shot cycle. You can tell a good smooth shot cycle.

     I personally have John Thomas of PA tune all my springers. I want my Walther LGV to have full power kit put back in as 16.20’s should be AWESOME. I have (3) 48’s a .177 & .22 & JIPA tuned 48 .177. Have a JIPA tuned 52 .25. JIPA tuned.22 R1, JIPA HW30.177 that literally beat my Dad’s Savage.22 WSM at 50 yards. I shoot on 2-3x and align top of front sight post with exact perfection of target, front post, reticle, my left eye while right is open (I always shoot with both eyes open) John tuned my El Gamo 300, 54’s, 56’s, some HW’s. 

    I bought some tuned guns from sellers who self tuned and have been VERY happy. Others I doubt they even tarred spring let alone switched seals, buttoned anything let alone switch spring, stoned anything in trigger & vibra tight screws. 

    Thus I do wish to learn spring gun tuning besides just being able to adjust a Marauder well or increase PCP power.

     I think your 48 can handle 21 but like my R1 needs 5.52. And JSB 18.13 does shoot flatter. Flatter doesn’t matter if not hole in hole though right?

    Thank you.  The shot cycle is VERY smooth, and I only had some disappointment when I ran it over a chrony to figure out FPE.  Was hoping for around 20 FPE, and ended up short.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    I inspected the spring. it looks absolutely pristine, but dry. Hopefully lube will improved it somewhat.  When I get a chance, I'll lube and Chrony it.  I'll post results when I do.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    srtmat
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +5

    How did the seal look? FPS can be lost if it’s nicked bad.

    +1 for John in PA.

    I have a .25 52 that had a bad barrel.  John worked the breech, cut, crowned, choked, waved a magical wand…. Completely transformed the gun. Best springer I’ve ever owned.

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    ranedouglas
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +13

    ……….             

    .22 Caliber Pellets   from a diana model 48 / 52 magnum side lever air rifle  ::

    Pellet Name Pellet Weight (grains) Ratings at the Muzzle Ratings at 
    10 Yards
    Ratings at 
    25 Yards
    Ratings at 
    50 Yards
    Ballistic Coefficient
    Name Advertised Tested Velocity (fps) Energy
    (ft lbs)
    Velocity
    (fps)
    Energy
    (ft lbs)
    Velocity 
    (fps)
    Energy
    (ft lbs)
    Velocity
    (fps)
    Energy
    (ft lbs)
    Average Energy
    Meisterkugeln
    13.90
    14.20
    884
    25
    775
    19
    648
    13
    482
    7
    .010
    Super H Point
    13.90
    14.40
    889
    22
    779
    19
    651
    14
    484
    8
    .010
    Crosman Premier
    14.30
    14.30
    866
    24
    810
    21
    739
    17
    637
    13
    .020
    JSB Express
    14.30
    14.40
    818
    21
    774
    19
    715
    16
    629
    13
    .023
    SuperDome
    14.50
    14.50
    884
    25
    765
    19
    627
    13
    451
    7
    .009
    SuperPoint
    14.50
    14.40
    863
    24
    749
    18
    615
    12
    441
    6
    .009
    FTS
    14.60
    14.80
    856
    24
    793
    21
    712
    17
    599
    12
    .017
    FTS Double Gold
    14.72
    14.80
    840
    23
    779
    20
    700
    16
    589
    11
    .017
    Napier ProHunter
    15.40
    15.20
    834
    23
    780
    21
    709
    17
    607
    12
    .019
    Silver Sting
    15.74
    16.00
    817
    24
    737
    19
    635
    14
    497
    9
    .012
    JSB Exact
    15.90
    16.00
    767
    21
    731
    19
    680
    16
    605
    13
    .025
    JSB Predator
    16.10
    16.30
    811
    24
    762
    21
    696
    8
    601
    13
    .020
    Silver Arrow 
    17.10
    17.70
    779
    24
    698
    19
    595
    14
    453
    8
    .011
    JSB Exact Heavy
    18.00
    18.20
    762
    23
    729
    21
    682
    19
    612
    15
    .027
    Crow Magnum
    18.20
    18.10
    747
    22
    690
    19
    613
    15
    504
    10
    .015
    Kodiak
    21.10
    21.30
    659
    21
    629
    19
    586
    16
    521
    13
    .025
    Kodiak Double Gold
    21.12
    21.40
    648
    20
    618
    18
    576
    16
    512
    12
    .025
    JSB Exact Monster
    25.40
    25.40
    597
    20
    572
    18
    537
    16
    483
    13
    .028

                         …………… hey , greenroilland , either your mainspring has weakened (shooting heavy pellets doesnt help) , or your breech seal which is inside the silver cylinder that comes and seals behind where you load the pellet is not good – or your sidelever isnt adjusted just right to snug it up there , or bad piston seal….   those links to straight shooters , you have to click the " our take " tab under each gun…   2006 was over ten years ago..  if you dont taunt the mainspring by using too heavy of pellet (and you'll feel the stress in the shot cycle) , and dont leave the gun cocked , or dont dry fire it , or mess it up with strange lubes – diana internals are usually good for 8000-10000 shots and sometimes more…   these model 48 / 52 / 56 magnum sidelevers generally average 840-860 fps with 14.3 grainers…..ive had the .20 cal model 48's pass thru cottontails so fast that neither rabbit or myself knew if it been shot…   i would highly recommend a new breech seal (which is a hard plastic disc, not a soft rubber oring like breakbarels have) , a new mainspring (titan xs , macarri power spring , a new r1 spring makes a beast out of these diana sidelevers , but too much cocking force will break that little u-joint part that screws into that silver cylinder which is actually the air chamber housing the piston seal – and that damn part is over $50…there's stories of guys poaching deer with an r1 spring inside their .22 diana 48/52) ..  i cant remember if i used a vortek kit in a diana mag side lever , but i did use tom's pro-vac 25 piston seals which were hot in 2010 – and i used and still use tom gore's breech seals for these guns…  the piston seal added 40 fps to my .20 cal model 48/52 ..  rich in mich put a choked l.walther barrel onto a beater .177 d48 i got in a trade with caro , a rancher down in south texas….     thee arent that hard to rebuild if you have a good spring compressor , and pay attention to the side lever and not to forget about how that adjustable cocking rod came out , so you can put it back with minimal troubles , the cocking arm comes off entirely and remove that anti-bear trap thing from under the gun….   that .20 l.walther d48 with a model 52 stock shot horribly until i got the new breech seal and got that cocking rod properly adjusted to seat and seal behind the pellet ( loss of 100+ fps there)…  once i got everything right – it was the BEST airgun platform i have ever had for 5mm…  dime-size groups at 60 yard on a good day with 13.7 grain jsb's – avg 870 fps … and with the .20 caliber h&n ftt pellets – 930 fps…….it broke my little orange metal silohettes that came with that crosman pellet trap thing from walmart back then…and that chicken was hanging from a tree at 65+ yards (i can still hear that " SMACK ! " )…..   then a guy in ny state traded me a really nice factory-made .20 diana 48 for a brand new turkish patriot – couldnt believe it !!   i had been putting want ads for months – finally sent one to rich in mich to just "make my own" , then this popped up (diana made a few .20 cal model 36's and some .20 diana model 45's , also – but that was it for .20 caliber…unless special bulk order was arranged – and i heard that was costly…   here's a link to those .20 cal diana mag side levers…5mm does some really magical shit from one of these fixed-barrel mags…    here's a link  :          https://raneair.webs.com/20diana48.htm                    …                   if i can help in any way , just p.m. me , ok ?  – paul.

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    You guys are fantastic.  I appreciate all the help.  How do I contact John in PA or Rich in michigan?

     

    I'm still considering doing nothing (except lube) for now given how tight it groups.  I can do ragged one hole pretty easily at 25 yards, and I can keep it tight to around 35 or so.  Pellet drop seems absolutely minimal between 25 and 35 yards or so.  I hAve other guns to satisfy my power itch for now.  I know long term I'll do something, but tempted to shoot this spring out.

     

    However, I'm still interested in finding out how to get in touch with John or Rich i keep hearing about.  Plus, PA is my neighbor…

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    Well, lubed the spring.  Gained a few FPS, but now it shoots the 21.14 grain with a slight "twang".  Under 21 grain still shoots perfectly.  Probably will shoot out the 1000 rounds of 21.14 and then go lighter …

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    GoldenStateAIRGUNer
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +11

    Glenroiland

    Well, lubed the spring.  Gained a few FPS, but now it shoots the 21.14 grain with a slight "twang".  Under 21 grain still shoots perfectly.  Probably will shoot out the 1000 rounds of 21.14 and then go lighter …

    That pellet is just to heavy for that rifle. Ideal weigh for .22 springer is in the 14-16gr range.

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    GoldenStateAIRGUNer

    Glenroiland

    Well, lubed the spring.  Gained a few FPS, but now it shoots the 21.14 grain with a slight "twang".  Under 21 grain still shoots perfectly.  Probably will shoot out the 1000 rounds of 21.14 and then go lighter …

    That pellet is just to heavy for that rifle. Ideal weigh for .22 springer is in the 14-16gr range.

    Figured as much, but it shoots them so well.

     

    Since the spring looks pristine,  and the seal looks good, does anybody think this gun could have been tuned down to around 15 FPE?  Or more likely spring fatigue?

     

     

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    GoldenStateAIRGUNer
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +11

    Glenroiland

    GoldenStateAIRGUNer

    Glenroiland

    Well, lubed the spring.  Gained a few FPS, but now it shoots the 21.14 grain with a slight "twang".  Under 21 grain still shoots perfectly.  Probably will shoot out the 1000 rounds of 21.14 and then go lighter …

    That pellet is just to heavy for that rifle. Ideal weigh for .22 springer is in the 14-16gr range.

    Figured as much, but it shoots them so well.

     

    Since the spring looks pristine,  and the seal looks good, does anybody think this gun could have been tuned down to around 15 FPE?  Or more likely spring fatigue?

     

     

    As JamesD stated, it's a balancing act between weight and velocity in order to find the most efficient pellet for your rifle. I can get 24+ ft lbs in my .22 Sig with the Sig Crux alloy pellet at 9.6 gr. It's not the most accurate pellet and not weight efficient down range. With a 21 gr. pellet I'm at 22.6 ft lbs. I'll have better energy retention at longer ranges but I've started off with less at the muzzle. With the heavier pellet trajectory becomes an issue. I like the Sig Wraith alloy at 13.3gr but it's velocity of 885 fps is only netting a hair over 23 ft lbs. I've finally settled on two lead pellets that give me the best weight to velocity efficiency. In order of efficiency they are the 14.66 gr Sig Crux lead and the 14.66 gr H&N Field Trophy. I did some testing today and the Crux at 14.7gr ( I actually weigh them ) averaged 861 fps or 24.2 ft lbs ! The H&N FT at 14.8 gr averaged 852 fps or close to 23.9 ft lbs. Good muzzle energy and heavy enough to be quite efficient out to 40-50 yards. Which is really my limit for taking game with my gas-ram springer.

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    GoldenStateAIRGUNer

    Glenroiland

    GoldenStateAIRGUNer

    Glenroiland

    Well, lubed the spring.  Gained a few FPS, but now it shoots the 21.14 grain with a slight "twang".  Under 21 grain still shoots perfectly.  Probably will shoot out the 1000 rounds of 21.14 and then go lighter …

    That pellet is just to heavy for that rifle. Ideal weigh for .22 springer is in the 14-16gr range.

    Figured as much, but it shoots them so well.

     

    Since the spring looks pristine,  and the seal looks good, does anybody think this gun could have been tuned down to around 15 FPE?  Or more likely spring fatigue?

     

     

    As JamesD stated, it's a balancing act between weight and velocity in order to find the most efficient pellet for your rifle. I can get 24+ ft lbs in my .22 Sig with the Sig Crux alloy pellet at 9.6 gr. It's not the most accurate pellet and not weight efficient down range. With a 21 gr. pellet I'm at 22.6 ft lbs. I'll have better energy retention at longer ranges but I've started off with less at the muzzle. With the heavier pellet trajectory becomes an issue. I like the Sig Wraith alloy at 13.3gr but it's velocity of 885 fps is only netting a hair over 23 ft lbs. I've finally settled on two lead pellets that give me the best weight to velocity efficiency. In order of efficiency they are the 14.66 gr Sig Crux lead and the 14.66 gr H&N Field Trophy. I did some testing today and the Crux at 14.7gr ( I actually weigh them ) averaged 861 fps or 24.2 ft lbs ! The H&N FT at 14.8 gr averaged 852 fps or close to 23.9 ft lbs. Good muzzle energy and heavy enough to be quite efficient out to 40-50 yards. Which is really my limit for taking game with my gas-ram springer

    Thank you for the reply!  I'm just wondering why no pellet in this gun comes anywhere remotely near to 17 FPE.  The spring looks absolutely pristine. Guess could be spring fatigue, or tuned down?

    Still shoots well, just was hoping for more umphf..

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    GoldenStateAIRGUNer
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +11

    I've mentioned this before but airgun manufacturers have a couple of words when it comes to the velocity rating they attach to their guns. UP TO ! ! Generally,  most velocity realities are on par with claims. I would say the issues to explore are the breech seal, piston seal, compression chamber wall condition, and mainspring fatigue.

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    blackdiesel
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +80

    I have a D48 and D54 in 22 cal and both shoot crosman ultra magnum dome pellets as well or better than JSBs. I usually shoot mine at 35 yards in my backyard, but I have shot it out to 55 yards and get great results. I can almost match accuracy of most of my PCPs at this distance 

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    Once again I thank you guys!  Anybody have contact info for John or Mitch?

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    Thank you guys for all your help. 

    After getting specific lubes (chamber, spring, seal), I lubed the spring, the compression seal, and the breach seal.  All looked ok to start (the spring looked bone dry but brand new despite it being made in 2006).  But, now I am getting 16 fpe with the 21.14, and finally getting 18 FPE with the jsb jumbo express Diabolo 14.35 5.5 mm pellets!!!! This is far closer to what I wanted.  The extreme  spread is close to 7 fps consistently.  

    Now to hit some paper and see…..

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    Glenroiland
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +7

    So, at 18 FPE the JSB 14.35 5.5 mm doing ok on paper.  I'll have to get use to the new trajectory, but these are my first targets at 25 yards. Left to right is adjusting windage.  Each are 5 shots.  Much different trajectory for POI at my 35 yard target than the 21.14 grain, but I think I'll keep with this pellet for a while.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Glenroiland.
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