Depressing News about the Smooth Twist X 700mm slug barrels and liners

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It seems to me that sooner or later one of the more innovative dealers like Utah Airguns will eventually allow customers to order an FX rifle with whatever barrel they want straight from the dealer. For example, you could order a Crown or Impact from them with only an FX 700 mm slug barrel in .22, .25. or .30 caliber...or as an additional option they might allow the customer to order the rifle with a barrel in any of those three calibers made by Mike Sayers at TJ Barrel Liners...or allow the customer to specify an FX rifle with a Lilja or Krieger custom barrel in .257 for slugs.

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You just described the Dreamline, if it ever comes out.

While it would be nice if the Impact came as a custom gun, the difficulties in stocking this part or that to have exactly what the buyer wants is horrendous. I simply hope they get the Dreamline out so people can customize the gun from the get-go.
 
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JU, please elaborate on your experience with Utah Airguns.

I ask because I am currently awaiting the arrival of my blue titanium cerakote Impact X, purchased from Utah Airguns a week ago.

Please PM me if you feel the info will not be appropriate for this open forum. Thanks in advance.
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Ok, but just keep in mind that I'm old and suspicious. Don't let me ruin your fun...

I call UAG the week before the rocky mountain challenge to ask if they have a 700mm .30 impact in stock. Mike tells me they have two on the shelf. He sets up an account for me and I complete the purchase online. He says call me back after you make the payment and I do. Everything seems to be going fine and I'm off the phone. Two minutes later I get an email from mike saying that they won't ship the gun until after the rocky mountain challenge event a week later because they want to shoot it for a week for "quality control" just to make sure it's not defective. Several things in that statement piss me off. I'm thinking,

I just paid over $2000 for an airgun and it might be defective?

Do they really have it in stock when no one else does?

You want to test it for a week while there just happens to be a lot of potential customers there that would like to try this gun on the range?

So I reply to his email... you didn't mention any of this before I paid you. In stock means ready to ship and nothing else.

Mike replies... We have it but it's our policy to test the gun for a few days and since we're hosting this long event it may take an additional three to five days.

This sounds like complete BS to me so I tell Mike I don't want any of that, just put a shipping label on it and hand it to UPS. DO NOT SEND ME A USED GUN.

He sent the gun right away but when I first charged it, the regulator was set above 220 bar and velocity with a 50.15g JSB was all over the place from about 450 to 670 fps. 20 minutes of tuning had that fixed and I'm getting 900 fps. Everything else seems fine and after shooting the gun for a week I decide to buy a side shot high capacity magazine from UAG. I place the order online even though it says the .30 mags are out of stock, mainly because UAG was the only place I'd seen them. About a week later I get an email saying that I didn't complete my purchase, so I respond that I did complete the purchase with paypal and paypal will pay them after they fill my order. UAG says I'm correct and the order will be filled soon. A couple days later I call them and without mentioning my order I asked when the .30 sideshot mags would be in stock. They guy says one week. I call the next day and mention my online order asking when they would be in stock and the guy says "looks like you've been dealing with Mike, let me transfer you". Mike says five weeks and he has a much less friendly tone than when I first called to purchase the gun. I cancel the order and buy from a different store two minutes later. Two days later the mag was delivered.

The feeling I got from my business with UAG doesn't translate well into text, but I can't do business with them anymore. I don't like people who try to renegotiate or treat me differently after they have my money. I hope I'm wrong about UAG but that's how they made me feel.

On a brighter note, I purchased a Ronin from DonnyFL and that guy really sets the standard for customer service and having his stuff in order.

Good luck to you. I hope you have a better experience than I.
 
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It appears to me -- based on the experience you've described -- your suspicions are justified. For the intelligent age and the knowledge acquired with it are definitely assets.

About an hour ago I spoke to Jessica at Utah airguns about my order which includes the customizing I describe in my earlier post. I was informed that the manager of the business where the cerakoting is done will be out of town for a week, thus delaying the work on my rifle. Apparently -- according to Jessica -- this manager is the person overseeing all the work done at his shop.

I'm not even the brightest person in my household (that distinction goes to my wife), but I know BS when it's thrown at me. But, I'm good with waiting a month on the order, if that's what it takes to get it done right. After all, I am expecting the shipment next week of a Vulcan2 from Talon Tunes. Until then, I'll have to console myself with this 2 month old Impact X, from AoA.


 
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JU, please elaborate on your experience with Utah Airguns.

I ask because I am currently awaiting the arrival of my blue titanium cerakote Impact X, purchased from Utah Airguns a week ago.

Please PM me if you feel the info will not be appropriate for this open forum. Thanks in advance.
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Ok, but just keep in mind that I'm old and suspicious. Don't let me ruin your fun...

I call UAG the week before the rocky mountain challenge to ask if they have a 700mm .30 impact in stock. Mike tells me they have two on the shelf. He sets up an account for me and I complete the purchase online. He says call me back after you make the payment and I do. Everything seems to be going fine and I'm off the phone. Two minutes later I get an email from mike saying that they won't ship the gun until after the rocky mountain challenge event a week later because they want to shoot it for a week for "quality control" just to make sure it's not defective. Several things in that statement piss me off. I'm thinking,

I just paid over $2000 for an airgun and it might be defective?

Do they really have it in stock when no one else does?

You want to test it for a week while there just happens to be a lot of potential customers there that would like to try this gun on the range?

So I reply to his email... you didn't mention any of this before I paid you. In stock means ready to ship and nothing else.

Mike replies... We have it but it's our policy to test the gun for a few days and since we're hosting this long event it may take an additional three to five days.

This sounds like complete BS to me so I tell Mike I don't want any of that, just put a shipping label on it and hand it to UPS. DO NOT SEND ME A USED GUN.

He sent the gun right away but when I first charged it, the regulator was set above 220 bar and velocity with a 50.15g JSB was all over the place from about 450 to 670 fps. 20 minutes of tuning had that fixed and I'm getting 900 fps. Everything else seems fine and after shooting the gun for a week I decide to buy a side shot high capacity magazine from UAG. I place the order online even though it says the .30 mags are out of stock, mainly because UAG was the only place I'd seen them. About a week later I get an email saying that I didn't complete my purchase, so I respond that I did complete the purchase with paypal and paypal will pay them after they fill my order. UAG says I'm correct and the order will be filled soon. A couple days later I call them and without mentioning my order I asked when the .30 sideshot mags would be in stock. They guy says one week. I call the next day and mention my online order asking when they would be in stock and the guy says "looks like you've been dealing with Mike, let me transfer you". Mike says five weeks and he has a much less friendly tone than when I first called to purchase the gun. I cancel the order and buy from a different store two minutes later. Two days later the mag was delivered.

The feeling I got from my business with UAG doesn't translate well into text, but I can't do business with them anymore. I don't like people who try to renegotiate or treat me differently after they have my money. I hope I'm wrong about UAG but that's how they made me feel.

On a brighter note, I purchased a Ronin from DonnyFL and that guy really sets the standard for customer service and having his stuff in order.

Good luck to you. I hope you have a better experience than I.
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I'm like you. I don't give companies that have provided poor service, any more of my money...ever.

It's been my experience when you're giving companies money they're all happy to talk with you about what they're selling. But it's when something goes wrong and you want the problem corrected, only the good companies will still be happy to talk with you, while the bad ones act like it's a hassle for them to be bothered about them sending you a detective product.
 
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After reading the account, I tried to put myself in UAG's position. I worked in customer service for a number of years. You were already suspicious, already unhappy, already impatient, already looking for a reason to be unhappy. If you were suspicious, why did you send them $2000 in the first place? I'd have hated to be in Mike's position. It was a no win, no matter what he did. 

I just bought an Impact from AoA and they have the same testing policy, and yes, defective guns make it off the finest assembly lines. The vendor is the last line for QC and they try to take it seriously. The fact the reg was set incorrectly is an indication that the final QC Test the dealer is supposed to perform is needed. Since you were impatient and didn't allow time for the QC, you got a gun that wasn't setup quite right. Things happen when items are shipped from Sweden to the US. Final QC at the dealer being BS? I think not. but again, why did you send the money in the first place?

As for the foul-up on the side shot magazine, without mentioning your order to start with, to me, that was a bit deceptive. Businesses often tell someone that hasn't ordered a longer lead time because they are pledging next shipment to the orders already in the system. As a result, by the time you cancelled the order it had already shipped. No company is perfect.

Is any business perfect? Nope. Is every customer service encounter to the customer's liking? Nope, and sometimes as a business you make choices you don't want to make because you know the customer can't be made happy or that the price of making the customer happy is so high, you just can't do it.

Still, why, if you were suspicious, did you buy anything from them at all? At that point, you should have gone elsewhere and did a bit of comparison shopping rather than dropping $2000 on a vendor you already don't trust. Probably work out better fore everyone.

If I seem a bit sour, having worked in customer service for so many years, these stories hit a raw chord. The vendor may have very well done there best, but the customer just won't be happy unless they break the vendor. Next time you are suspicious, go elsewhere. You'll be much happier.
 
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After reading the account, I tried to put myself in UAG's position. I worked in customer service for a number of years. You were already suspicious, already unhappy, already impatient, already looking for a reason to be unhappy. If you were suspicious, why did you send them $2000 in the first place? I'd have hated to be in Mike's position. It was a no win, no matter what he did. 

I just bought an Impact from AoA and they have the same testing policy, and yes, defective guns make it off the finest assembly lines. The vendor is the last line for QC and they try to take it seriously. The fact the reg was set incorrectly is an indication that the final QC Test the dealer is supposed to perform is needed. Since you were impatient and didn't allow time for the QC, you got a gun that wasn't setup quite right. Things happen when items are shipped from Sweden to the US. Final QC at the dealer being BS? I think not. but again, why did you send the money in the first place?

As for the foul-up on the side shot magazine, without mentioning your order to start with, to me, that was a bit deceptive. Businesses often tell someone that hasn't ordered a longer lead time because they are pledging next shipment to the orders already in the system. As a result, by the time you cancelled the order it had already shipped. No company is perfect.

Is any business perfect? Nope. Is every customer service encounter to the customer's liking? Nope, and sometimes as a business you make choices you don't want to make because you know the customer can't be made happy or that the price of making the customer happy is so high, you just can't do it.

Still, why, if you were suspicious, did you buy anything from them at all? At that point, you should have gone elsewhere and did a bit of comparison shopping rather than dropping $2000 on a vendor you already don't trust. Probably work out better fore everyone.

If I seem a bit sour, having worked in customer service for so many years, these stories hit a raw chord. The vendor may have very well done there best, but the customer just won't be happy unless they break the vendor. Next time you are suspicious, go elsewhere. You'll be much happier.
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You made a lot of assumptions and read some things in that were not there. You also seem overly butthurt and suspiciously used some of the same language as the UAG owner that just PMed me. I sent out a few emails... we'll see what turns up.
 
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2000$ gun they are telling the customer that they have to test it before shipping ?

holy ****, nobody wants to hear such things.

If they think they have to test it before shipping then they should do it before a order has been placed and dont tell the customer everything... it sounds really stupid for me.



imaging your wife wants to buy a thermomix (expensive kitchen tool) and they tell here: uhh, sorry, you want to buy one ? we have it on the shelf but we have to test it..




 
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I would have been fine with the testing at RMAC under one condition, that the gun be shipped to me with an autograph from Ted Bier and Matt Dubber on the shroud, with personally autographed picture of both of them holding the autographed gun, then have the autographs laser etched into the shroud.
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Makes sense to me!

After reading the account, I tried to put myself in UAG's position. I worked in customer service for a number of years. You were already suspicious, already unhappy, already impatient, already looking for a reason to be unhappy. If you were suspicious, why did you send them $2000 in the first place? I'd have hated to be in Mike's position. It was a no win, no matter what he did. 

I just bought an Impact from AoA and they have the same testing policy, and yes, defective guns make it off the finest assembly lines. The vendor is the last line for QC and they try to take it seriously. The fact the reg was set incorrectly is an indication that the final QC Test the dealer is supposed to perform is needed. Since you were impatient and didn't allow time for the QC, you got a gun that wasn't setup quite right. Things happen when items are shipped from Sweden to the US. Final QC at the dealer being BS? I think not. but again, why did you send the money in the first place?

As for the foul-up on the side shot magazine, without mentioning your order to start with, to me, that was a bit deceptive. Businesses often tell someone that hasn't ordered a longer lead time because they are pledging next shipment to the orders already in the system. As a result, by the time you cancelled the order it had already shipped. No company is perfect.

Is any business perfect? Nope. Is every customer service encounter to the customer's liking? Nope, and sometimes as a business you make choices you don't want to make because you know the customer can't be made happy or that the price of making the customer happy is so high, you just can't do it.

Still, why, if you were suspicious, did you buy anything from them at all? At that point, you should have gone elsewhere and did a bit of comparison shopping rather than dropping $2000 on a vendor you already don't trust. Probably work out better fore everyone.

If I seem a bit sour, having worked in customer service for so many years, these stories hit a raw chord. The vendor may have very well done there best, but the customer just won't be happy unless they break the vendor. Next time you are suspicious, go elsewhere. You'll be much happier.
Click to expand...


You made a lot of assumptions and read some things in that were not there. You also seem overly butthurt and suspiciously used some of the same language as the UAG owner that just PMed me. I sent out a few emails... we'll see what turns up.
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Just been in customer service for too many years. Pushing 60 and really don't have time for people that are looking for an excuse to be upset. You seemed to be looking for an excuse. While UAG isn't perfect, they are a very small shop, the policies they have about testing are common, especially for $2000 guns. Next time, order from AoA and see if they do the same. (did for mine). Your treatment of the folks at UAG in my book is unacceptable. They did make mistakes, but the buyer isn't innocent either.
 
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UA has treated me very well. Both Streamlines I bought didn't ship the next day because they said they needed to be given a tune before shipping. No problem.

My SL22 has been flawless from Day 1.

The SL25 I ordered was damaged during shipping (broken stock), and they sent me a return label within minutes of emaing them with pictures.

Top it off, one phone call later and a replacement gun (WC25) was on the way to me the next day......this was before they got the damaged gun back in their hands!

Maybe it was because I treated them decently in my emails and over the phone? Maybe it was because they are a reputable company? 

Then I ordered an Omega air tank from them, which I was told needed to be tested first and would ship the next day. Sure no problem.....the best part was whenI opened the box I found a note taped to the valve knob saying the bottle was full of air!

This isn't counting a Side-Shot and extra mags purchase, other items as well. And I even got a free hat and shirt. Of course my next gun will be purchased through UA if they are a seller of whatever it is.


 
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Here's an opinion from a new guy. I don't even know what you're talking about as far as the project itself but it sounds like it's on the fringe and new and possible experimental (or if nothing else not common) If many of my assumptions are correct it puts things in a little different category. Dealers have to make a profit and also have to try to provide a quality product. I'm in business and there are some deals you make money on some you break even and a few you lose your shirt on. I for one will do my best to try to help a client who remains both pleasant and understanding and of course I do my best to remain the same. I'm not sure that most of the problem here isn't that one or both parties didn't hold to that.



Every once in a while a buyer just has to move on to another dealer and I am sure dealers are glad that they do.



It's IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE EVERYONE. I'm not saying who's wrong or right in this because I don't know. And when money is involved it's even more complicated. Good luck to all involved hope it can be sorted to everyone's satisfaction
 
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Before this situation gets out of hand, I want to jump in and explain just a couple things from our side:

Firstly, this gun was ordered at 2:30PM on 6/18 and left our shop for delivery to JU by noon on 6/19. Secondly, yes, it is true that we were telling customers there may be a delay in shipping times due to our 3-day event. As a small company, we had to have all hands on deck to put on the Rocky Mountain Airgun Challenge so there was a chance of orders building up over the weekend. Hopefully this community sees the value in how these type of competitions will grow the sport and make it more accessible for all. Thirdly, we weren't saying it would take a full week to tune/ship one gun. It only takes 20-30 minutes to tune/package a gun up for delivery. We were just trying to be transparent in the fact that there may be other orders in line to go out. Our average time to get a gun order out is under 36 business hours if in stock.

Our goal is to provide the highest level of customer service possible and also be transparent. I have direct messaged JU to see if there was anything I can do as an owner of the company for him to smooth things over. AGN is obviously a very important community to us so please feel free to message either owners directly ([email protected] or [email protected]) with any concerns or feedback.

Thank you!

Austin James & Justin Jacobson










 
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That is a lot of extra cash for a few more foot pounds of energy. Is it really worth it to you? The other option is to just purchase the 600mm slug liner that fits in your gun. That is what I did and have no problem hitting 90 fpe in .30 cal. which seems like plenty. In fact, I’ve got more spring and reservoir pressure to spare and could do over 100 fpe if so desired.
 
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I bought an FX Warcat in .25 and a Wildcat MKII in .30, had a picatinny rail put on the Wildcat, bought sets of No Limit rings and a bunch of other stuff. I was always well treated, and got things much quicker than expected, I even bought and wear 2 of their shirts. I guess everyone sees things differently. I personally value the dealer as the QC of last resort. I would much rather have a dealer QC by testing and tuning my gun, instead of getting a gun that leaks air and does not operate properly causing me to repackage and ship wasting time, effort and money. When I get a gun I want to scope it, and shoot it. To each their own.
 
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