Low power just use pellets, if you are going to use slugs, a rimfire offer more advantages than slugs in an airgun.
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Debate - I'm going to convince you it's worthless shooting slugs out of a PCP
- Thread starter blackdiesel
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Low power just use pellets, if you are going to use slugs, a rimfire offer more advantages than slugs in an airgun.
Dairyboy,
I looked into the use of suppressors in Washington and from what aresonal attorneys and the American suppressor association day along with an article in the Washington post they are legal to own and legal to use for hunting. If you own any and want to use them while hunting you might want to look into it more because it seems you would be allowed to.
I looked into the use of suppressors in Washington and from what aresonal attorneys and the American suppressor association day along with an article in the Washington post they are legal to own and legal to use for hunting. If you own any and want to use them while hunting you might want to look into it more because it seems you would be allowed to.
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If you are allowed to own them in the state then you can use them. It might be a different story as far as being legal to use while hunting but guarantee if you want to go out and shoot paper or plink it will be legal to do so. But then you have to ask if you can legally hunt with your airgun and legally hunt with it suppressed then I cant imagine it would be illegal to hunt with a firearm and a suppressor. If a state doesnt allow hunting with a suppressor then it would also include an air rifle. So thats another thing you might look into. Since you say you cant use a suppressor on your firearms to hunt how can you legally hunt with a suppressor on your air rifle?
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I cast slugs for my big bore because I'm CHEAP! I use scrap lead and already have the molds, so the only investment it takes is a few cents worth of electricity for the furnace.
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I said small bore PCPs. When I had big bore PCPs I cast slugs because it was a lot cheaper than buying them.
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I think you may have read my post wrong or maybe I am reading yours wrong. I was simply letting dairy boy know that if he believes he can't hunt with silencers on his firearms he may actually be able to. And there are still a few states that allow ownership of silencers but it's still illegal to hunt with them. And as far as hunting with silencers on firearms and air rifles it all depends on if your state considers air rifles firearms or not. Michigan just recently decided to not classify airguns as firearms, that's why we can now have shrouded airguns shipped to us. Sorry if I wasn't more clear in my post. I won't hijack this post anymore and let blackdiesel get back to making his point. I was simply trying to help someone out.
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More effective than rimfire at long distances = no. Safer = absolutely (unless your shooting them at sonic velocities).
I havent had time to test any of my slugs on live targets, but several slug makers have shared pictures of massive expansion on live targets without any exit wounds.
Here's a clip from Mike of Ratsniper "Just shot a squirrel @ 25 yards with the 31.4 gr Kryptonite Sledgehammer
Quartering away shot, hit just in front of the left rear hip and stopped just under the skin of the opposite shoulder...*completely* took out all of the vitals and the spine!!! Total travel was only 2". I wont share those graphic pics because this is not the Hunting section.If your talking about solid slugs shooting the same velocity of pellets (say 900 fps) then I'd agree that a pass thru is inevitable at near distances. However, some of these slug makers are making very effective hollowpoints in which case I believe that pass thoughts are less likely.
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Unclassified species are legal to pest with an airgun however hunting isnt legal in WA with an airgun. I looked into it more and suppressors are now legal to own and use. They werent a few years back before I got into airguns. And there now legal to hunt with apparently. But I know my PCPs will outshoot my .22LR so not even going down that road. I only shoot belding ground squirrels, pigeons, dove, starlings and sparrows. All unclassified and doable with airgun.
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The legality of shooting PB in city limits and the accuracy of my .25 Condor SS with swagged. Bout all I can think off.
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But, I disagree with it being 'worthless'. I find great enjoyment from shooting slugs from ags.
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"fall on the spot, clean kills" ??? A hit is not necessarily a clean kill. The most probable outcome for those irresponsible long shots is a severe injury where the animal will suffer terribly before it dies hours or days later. If you are going to take a life for the fun of it at least do it humanely. That means short distance shooting where you have a sure shot.
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Slugs increase lethality by means of higher FPE retention over the same distance as a diablo pellet. If the job calls for it, then why not? You can get a .172 slug shooter up to 60-80 FPE which if were your only air gun enables you to do a lot more than what any diablo pellet would.
If I were to hunt coyotes or similar medium sized game I would 100% lean towards using slugs in my .25 cal..The retention of FPE would be more humane in this situation. I also have just 1 pcp rifle and no PB's, so its much more economical for me to buy slugs than an entirely new rifle and all the gear for it. I am not a collector, I just need the right tool for the job, and if a slug is that, so be it.
Diablo pellets have limited weights. For a rifle ported at 90% or more of bore diameter, which is easily done, you will obtain MUCH more energy when increasing the weight of your projectile over what is available in diablo pellets...This can be the difference between 75 fpe (33.95 gr mkll) @ at the muzzle vs to 90+ fpe (50 gr slug...)
I could give more scenarios that give merit to slugs in smaller calibers, but I don't use them nor intend to personally as I like the concept of diablo pellets and their quickly diminishing energy outputs + limited range, makes shooting them much more safer and practical, but thats just IMO.
If I were to hunt coyotes or similar medium sized game I would 100% lean towards using slugs in my .25 cal..The retention of FPE would be more humane in this situation. I also have just 1 pcp rifle and no PB's, so its much more economical for me to buy slugs than an entirely new rifle and all the gear for it. I am not a collector, I just need the right tool for the job, and if a slug is that, so be it.
Diablo pellets have limited weights. For a rifle ported at 90% or more of bore diameter, which is easily done, you will obtain MUCH more energy when increasing the weight of your projectile over what is available in diablo pellets...This can be the difference between 75 fpe (33.95 gr mkll) @ at the muzzle vs to 90+ fpe (50 gr slug...)
I could give more scenarios that give merit to slugs in smaller calibers, but I don't use them nor intend to personally as I like the concept of diablo pellets and their quickly diminishing energy outputs + limited range, makes shooting them much more safer and practical, but thats just IMO.
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I think you supported my position. Yes slugs have a higher BC which I pointed out in my first post. So if you "need" this level of lethality a suppressed 22LR makes more sense considering it offers even more power, cost less (both ammo and gun), is just as quiet and just as accurate. And if you don't need this level of lethality, pellets offer a lot more options as you can choose very light weight pellets for small close up jobs and heavy pellets for bigger critters at longer distances. I couldn't have said it better, thanks
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A chunk of lead passing though soft tissue will more than likely kill any small animal rather quickly.
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If you can't use a 100 fpe suppressed 22LR in a certain environment, you probably shouldn't be using slugs with equal BC with a little less power which pose the same dangers. Again, a reason to use pellets in this case makes more sense.
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Per my earlier post, I ran out of allowable digits in the title, so I couldn't use the word "unnecessary" which I wanted to use. I couldn't think of a shorter word than "worthless" to make my point.
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No I read it fine. I was backing up your statement with more info for dairyboy. The only part I dont see being correct would be the part of not being allowed to hunt with a suppressor on a firearm but being allowed to on an air rifle. If hunting regs say no suppressed weapons for hunting game animals that would include all weapons weather they are fire arms or air rifles unless it specifically stated air rifles were fine to hunt with suppressed. I dont see where being classified as a firearm would have anything to do with hunting regs and the regs saying game animals cant be hunted with a suppressor. I have seen some backwards laws before so anythings possible but I would look very closely at the wording for any state that says you cannot hunt with suppressors before using an airgun thats suppressed.
I agree about not hijacking and sry for going a little off but at least this is part of the debate within the topic.
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There may be another reason to shoot slugs vs .22LR. That would be local laws. If you are in the United States, with only a few areas excepted, a .22LR might make more sense if outside city limits.
If in other nations such as Canada, Australia, UK, and much of Europe, the laws on PB's are enough different that slugs might make a huge difference. South Africa'n laws (if I read the information correctly, and being from the US, that might be a challenge), slugs in smaller calibers seem to offer viable alternatives to BP's in their legal situation.
All depends on where you live
If in other nations such as Canada, Australia, UK, and much of Europe, the laws on PB's are enough different that slugs might make a huge difference. South Africa'n laws (if I read the information correctly, and being from the US, that might be a challenge), slugs in smaller calibers seem to offer viable alternatives to BP's in their legal situation.
All depends on where you live
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I cant argue with Black Diesels evaluation. I like my pcps because I can shoot them in my back yard if Im careful of a solid back stop when blasting tree rats. A 22 is too much for that situation. The pcps give me 10x the opprotunity to shoot and keep my trigger finger tuned up. My CZ rimfires, with trigger and action jobs, are a pure joy to shoot. My Rugers are tree rat assissaniton machines for the forest, not the back yard. For long range shooting a 22 lr or my fav 17 M2, not the magnum, is great. I have 3 dolled out 10/22s and 3 CZ 452s and with premium ammo I will put them against pcps costing 2x to 4x more and for the average shooter, me, the rimfires will come out on top every time. For the fellow who hates cleaning guns you don't have to clean a rimfire that often. Maybe a quick brushing of the chamber and drag a bore snake and your done. Excessive cleaning and cleaning with a solid rod will be the death of a bbl. Been there and done that. Had to get a half inch cut off a bbl. and a recrown job back in my younger years.
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