Daystate Red Wolf HP .22

Forums PCP Airguns Daystate Red Wolf HP .22

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    SimonCockayne
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Hello everyone and thank you for the feedback. As many of you will likely know, I am Simon Cockayne from the Daystate factory and deal with all things technical. I have been discussing the two magazine related emails we have received that alerted us to this thread with my colleague Tony who should be joining us here shortly.

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    PerkyVal
    Participant
    Member

    This is unfortunate, and I suspect all my fault. Anytime I seriously consider a different brand of airgun than I usually buy, a problem emerges that makes me reject the idea.

    I always use mags, and while I can perhaps overlook the Daystate low capacity offerings, i will never buy a rifle that I have to use a single shot tray if I want to hit anything.

    Hopefully they'll sort this out soon, but I'm not encouraged by Daystates response to the problem.

     

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    DaystateUK
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Thanks Simon,

     

    As AGN readers probably know we are not as manufacturers allowed to post in the normal forum area, but as nobody has posted this inquiry in the dealer  area, we are breaking the rules for once to post this reply – sorry Michael!, please put your questions to manufacturers where we are allowed to answer them.

     

    The huge majority of our customers use the magazines on their Daystate rifles without issue, I had a quick look and since we started making the detachable magazine in 2002 the company has made nearly 300,000 of them, quite a number! Clearly it can go wrong sometimes and we’re sorry to hear that this has happened to some on here. Daystate and its USA agent AofA want to help. We invite people who need help and or advise to send us an email to us at  [email protected] entitled ‘Magazine’. Don’t forget to tell us the rifle you are using and its caliber. We will forward the email to the support staff in the correct country (AGN has many readers outside the US) and respond accordingly.

     

    all the best

     

    Tony

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    hawkeye69
    Participant
    Member

    I have already emailed Daystate including photos of the probe damage (copied to AOA), and have filed a separate Technical Enquiry form for both my Pulsar HP and Renegade. Where do I go from here?

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    SimonCockayne
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Hi hawkeye69, and thank you for reply.

    Please confirm, did you send email to [email protected] or use the general website enquiry form?

    Best regards – Simon

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    hawkeye69
    Participant
    Member

    SimonCockayne

    Hi hawkeye69, and thank you for reply.

    Please confirm, did you send email to [email protected] or use the general website enquiry form?

    Best regards – Simon

    Thank you for the response. I did both, I emailed to [email protected] and included photos. Filed Technical Enquiry forms on the website.

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    nomojo65
    Participant
    Member

    Arzrover, I to just removed material from my RW Mag.pri. Indexing lever-actuator, believe it’s still making minimal contact?, but accuracy has improved! (can’t give you exact measurements on amount of material I removed?, because I didn’t measure beforehand!) my next step is to place a thickness gauge against action so mag pin hits this gauge (thou. @ a time) to see if I can aleviate the lever “anvil” contacting the probe without misalignment of Mag. Pellet well to probe-breach interface causing accuracy issues?

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    SimonCockayne
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Thanks hawkeye69. Your email hasn't made it to me yet,  but will look for it tomorrow as it's late here in the UK. You may also consider resending your email to [email protected] with subject line 'Magazine' as we are diverting magazine enquiries away from the day to day general questions so as to speed up this specific subject enquiry.

    Best regards – Simon

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    hawkeye69
    Participant
    Member

    I will send it again. I look forward to hearing from you ASAP.

    Thank you,

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    nomojo65
    Participant
    Member

    I also want to add, I’m not trying to give Daystate a hard time (Although they should honor there fine reputation & warranty!) Now I spent considerable time looking and reviewing  multi shot .22cal. Rifles (  mainly for 50+ yd. comp. this is the gun for me! ) but this was the idea of utilizing the mag. For quick shots “shooting a condition”… Br. shooters know what I’m referring to!  I believe Dano46 was right that the indexing lever-anvil strikes the probe with considerable force sending these VIBS/HARMONICS through probe into barrel?  This also is probably not consistent from rifle to rifle or even power setting/pellet combo? Also another thought… if changing to a different breach o-ring material has an effect on this transfer of vibration? Maybe I’m way off base but still should not be tearing up my probe in this manner! I have less than 300 pellets through my rifle (using Mag.) about 600 total. AND LOVE IT!

     

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    DaystateUK
    Manufacturer
    Manufacturer

    Thank you for your positive, comments. you are right there is more than one answer and it depends on the individual gun, its calbrer, magazine, power and pellets, and not just type but sometimes batch to batch. But we will reply to each inquiry we get and do what we can to help. It helps that in the USA that we have a very keen agent who want to provide the best support.

     

    Tony

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    Dano46
    Participant
    Member

    Hey Tony… Guys.. The barrel o ring seals around the pellet probe in the firing cycle right.. now that mag comes and hit the pellet probe!! Can we get some crony numbers with the mag in place to see the fps spread.. if the barrel o ring is not perfect and that mag hits the pellet probe air will escape and contribute to the incosistency.

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    hawkeye69
    Participant
    Member

    Dano46

    Hey Tony… Guys.. The barrel o ring seals around the pellet probe in the firing cycle right.. now that mag comes and hit the pellet probe!! Can we get some crony numbers with the mag in place to see the fps spread.. if the barrel o ring is not perfect and that mag hits the pellet probe air will escape and contribute to the incosistency.

    Interesting that you mention the breech seal. On my Renegade I went through 8 breech seals in the first 6 months of use. Stopped using the magazine and haven't lost one since.

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    Dano46
    Participant
    Member

    Wow now that is interesting.. I'm on my 4th one with the RW.. so I stopped using the mag altogether and it will be fun to see how long it lasts now.

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    STO
    Participant
    Member

    I realize that if you don't have something nice or useful to say, you shouldn't say anything at all, however I guess I'm just a jerk so having followed this thread for about two weeks I'd like to toss my 2c in. 

    First off, I was genuinely considering a Redwolf. It definitely seems like my style of gun. Ultimately though I went with the Crown because the closed-source programmer and its cost really torqued my nuts. It'd have been trivial to make it a system which works via micro USB or even bluetooth to reduce tuning cost/difficulty. Even better it could be done open-source so that other airgunners could add to the code base and make even more effective software. You know how painstaking it is to, setting by setting, tweak and test things and shoot ladder groups to find your barrel's harmonics and all? How about software that engages a testing mode, and you simply shoot groups of a set round count and each has a different protocol for tweaking? This is what open source, and the massive brain-trust of the internet could have brought to the product. So that is why I went with the Crown, this closed-down attitude from Daystate. And I want to quote this:

    DaystateUK

    Thanks Simon,

     

    As AGN readers probably know we are not as manufacturers allowed to post in the normal forum area, but as nobody has posted this inquiry in the dealer  area, we are breaking the rules for once to post this reply – sorry Michael!, please put your questions to manufacturers where we are allowed to answer them.

     

    The huge majority of our customers use the magazines on their Daystate rifles without issue, I had a quick look and since we started making the detachable magazine in 2002 the company has made nearly 300,000 of them, quite a number! Clearly it can go wrong sometimes and we’re sorry to hear that this has happened to some on here. Daystate and its USA agent AofA want to help. We invite people who need help and or advise to send us an email to us at  [email protected] entitled ‘Magazine’. Don’t forget to tell us the rifle you are using and its caliber. We will forward the email to the support staff in the correct country (AGN has many readers outside the US) and respond accordingly.

     

    all the best

     

    Tony

    This thread with its magazine problem, and this attitude towards the issue, makes me very happy I didn't buy a Daystate. I think part of why FX gets away with so many of their trespasses is because their attitude isn't "well we've made hundreds of thousands of them for years, so it isn't really a problem" but instead "we're going to constantly fight to change and improve things. Just my thoughts on the subject. If I had paid that much for a rifle, particularly given the rest of the market for top-of-the-line rifles, I'd be thoroughly hacked off. Hell I've clearly had a nerve twisted here and I'm only reading about it happening to other people. And as far as Daystate not knowing about the issue, claim whatever you like, but to my eyes magazines are a MAJOR advantage in speed shooting even if loading them counts against your time. It didn't go unnoticed that at Extreme Benchrest the DAYSTATE SPONSORED TEAM single-loaded. 

     

    So my apologies. I shouldn't light up a manufacturer especially when they did take the time to come to the forum and post. I would like to offer what little help I can though. I understand Daystate magazines are incredibly expensive, 100$ a pop it looks like. For that price, I would expect the precision of manufacturing and quality control would mean that, while mistakes happen, nobody would have multiple defective magazines. This thread seems to suggest otherwise, in a big way. 

     

    I would like to make a free open-source magazine design for the Daystate guns. I don't know exactly how they work internally, but I would expect they are not that complicated as they certainly look simple externally. The goal is not a direct copy of a Daystate magazine, but a design improvement. If someone is willing to send me a magazine, I will do my best to design a new magazine which omits the bolt hold feature and which hopefully fixes the fliers. I'll publish the designs for free to download so all Daystate users can benefit, and anyone can 3D print them out. I will need some help from Daystate owners to test the mags out and make sure they fit and function, since I can't ask someone to borrow a RW to do the full development cycle myself. I don't know by what mechanism the Daystate magazines operate, however I would expect that at bare minimum a "standard" FX/Marauder/etc rotary style coil spring magazine like I designed to fix the fliers on my FX could be used. 

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    hawkeye69
    Participant
    Member

    I sent the same email with photos of probe damage on both guns today for the 3rd time and have yet to get a response.

    I'd at least like to know whether it has been received or not.

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    nomojo65
    Participant
    Member

    Sto, I too have owned a fx crown in.22… key word “have” owned! I sold it and will never buy another fx product again, problem with dealer, manufacturer, & North American repair facility!    DAYSTATE will rectify this, and your right you don’t understand the internals/how the RW Mag. Functions! Have fun with your plastic printer… 

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    kthomas
    Participant
    Member

    The airgun world is certainly full of products that are much more fickle/unreliable than their "powder burner" counterparts.

    As someone who recently has started airgunning and comes from a PB background, it's something I've noticed right away.

    Between these Daystate/Brocock mag issues (I have issues with all of my Brocock mags), to all the FX leaks, to my Brocock Bantam having a recurring issue with a leak (can't even fill it up right now – air just leaks out the barrel) and most recently my Taipan Veteran (which ended up being an easy fix) – these guns are definitlde fickle. 

    I hope the quality of airguns and components improve, because quite honestly, they are far behind their PB counterparts. In fact, I told my wife the other day that I wish it was legal to shoot .22 where I'm at, as I would have gotten a suppressed .22 and would be able to shoot away trouble free (unlike with airguns).

    I hope Daystate takes care of their customers and address these issues with a redesign of their magazine. I doubt it based on their attitude to this problem. I really hope the airgun industry as a whole has an adjustment on their philosophy towards building reliable guns and components, as they seem to think that problems are part of owning an airgun – it doesn't have to be. 

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    DaystateUK

    Thanks Simon,

     

    As AGN readers probably know we are not as manufacturers allowed to post in the normal forum area, but as nobody has posted this inquiry in the dealer  area, we are breaking the rules for once to post this reply – sorry Michael!, please put your questions to manufacturers where we are allowed to answer them.

     

    Tony

    No problem Tony.  In the event where a question can only be answered by the Dealer/Manufacturer we welcome your response.

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    Macros
    Participant
    Member

    Glad to see Tony and Simon on here!🎉 hopefully they can test a bit and this will get sorted

    @nomojo65 – glad to hear you're making progress with that magazine modification!

    I'm less thrilled with trying to get a new mag out of our suppliers in SA. I requested a swap for a new one shortly after buying my red wolf and got all sorts of excuses and reasons why the problem was me rather than the mag. Also, in some ways I agree with them as I'm not convinced that there would be an improvement – the contact with my probe seems substantial- beyond some tiny manufacturing tolerance. I seem to remember a member (might have been Hawkeye?) on here saying even AOA told them that a replacement mag probably wouldn't help.

    Regardless, good to see this all getting attention!

     

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